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power for spinning led's (dc motor with power transmitter)

Q

Quack

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?

I was thinking of inducting the current through a setup of coils, but i
cant find any good examples of this, and it will need a couple amps@5v
dc.

Another suggestion was to run some AC through ball-bearings, but i
wonder how this would hold up after being run for 24 hours a day, 7
days a week at 1800 rpm ... Any examples of this being used ? It doesnt
sound too reliable to me.

I pulled apart a couple of little spinning led clocks, and found they
had motors in them which also had a coil assembly for transmitting the
power to the circuit above (kind of a contactless slip-ring. No
Commutator).

This coil/induction setup was 'inside' the motor casing, so i dont
think it was added by the display/clock manufacturer, which comes to my
real question.

Where do these motors come from, i cant find them anywhere! :( does
anyone have any tips for hunting these down ? (also i need something a
little bigger than what i can find in a spinning led clock :) ).

Thanks for any help!
Alex.
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Quack said:
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?

I was thinking of inducting the current through a setup of coils, but i
cant find any good examples of this, and it will need a couple amps@5v
dc.

Another suggestion was to run some AC through ball-bearings, but i
wonder how this would hold up after being run for 24 hours a day, 7
days a week at 1800 rpm ... Any examples of this being used ? It doesnt
sound too reliable to me.

I pulled apart a couple of little spinning led clocks, and found they
had motors in them which also had a coil assembly for transmitting the
power to the circuit above (kind of a contactless slip-ring. No
Commutator).

This coil/induction setup was 'inside' the motor casing, so i dont
think it was added by the display/clock manufacturer, which comes to my
real question.

Where do these motors come from, i cant find them anywhere! :( does
anyone have any tips for hunting these down ? (also i need something a
little bigger than what i can find in a spinning led clock :) ).

Thanks for any help!
Alex.
Permanent magnets on the outside, coils on the inside, some diodes for
rectification -- voila! You have a generator.
 
J

John B

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?

I was thinking of inducting the current through a setup of coils, but i
cant find any good examples of this, and it will need a couple amps@5v
dc.

Another suggestion was to run some AC through ball-bearings, but i
wonder how this would hold up after being run for 24 hours a day, 7
days a week at 1800 rpm ... Any examples of this being used ? It doesnt
sound too reliable to me.

I pulled apart a couple of little spinning led clocks, and found they
had motors in them which also had a coil assembly for transmitting the
power to the circuit above (kind of a contactless slip-ring. No
Commutator).

This coil/induction setup was 'inside' the motor casing, so i dont
think it was added by the display/clock manufacturer, which comes to my
real question.

Where do these motors come from, i cant find them anywhere! :( does
anyone have any tips for hunting these down ? (also i need something a
little bigger than what i can find in a spinning led clock :) ).

Thanks for any help!
Alex.

Presumably your LED's and MCU's are mounted on a PCB. Why not also mount a motor on the PCB to act
as the spindle and then drive the whole assembly with a belt drive from a fixed external motor.
That way the axis motor can be used as a generator and power all of the electronics on the PCB.
 
Q

Quack

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Tim
Permanent magnets on the outside, coils on the inside, some diodes for
rectification -- voila! You have a generator.

That sounds sweet, so i suppose i lookup some generator examples (which
i have been doing already), and just try to model something around that
.... Any tips or sites which offer some solid/tested examples or ill
just have to spend a few hours at the bench after ordering a bunch of
different kinds of magnets.

How about using electro-magnets on the outside (fixed) portion,
presumably this would provide a stronger magnetic field than any earth
magnet ?

Alex.
 
Quack said:
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?

I was thinking of inducting the current through a setup of coils, but i
cant find any good examples of this, and it will need a couple amps@5v
dc.

Another suggestion was to run some AC through ball-bearings, but i
wonder how this would hold up after being run for 24 hours a day, 7
days a week at 1800 rpm ... Any examples of this being used ? It doesnt
sound too reliable to me.

I pulled apart a couple of little spinning led clocks, and found they
had motors in them which also had a coil assembly for transmitting the
power to the circuit above (kind of a contactless slip-ring. No
Commutator).

This coil/induction setup was 'inside' the motor casing, so i dont
think it was added by the display/clock manufacturer, which comes to my
real question.

Where do these motors come from, i cant find them anywhere! :( does
anyone have any tips for hunting these down ? (also i need something a
little bigger than what i can find in a spinning led clock :) ).

Thanks for any help!
Alex.

Presumably you could add your own slip rings onto the motor shaft where
its outside the casing.

Or if youre clever about it, use 2 motors. The drive motor runs at
3600rpm, and direct drives the spindle of the generating motor mounted
on the LED assy. You now have 2 sources of resistance to movement: the
generator, and the wind resistance on the LEDs. I dont know if you
cuold approximately balance the 2, but if so you'll get 1800rpm LEDs
and an 1800rpm generator both running off a 3600rpm drive motor.

I havent tried it, no :) But if it is workable, it'd be elegant.


NT
 
Quack said:
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?

I was thinking of inducting the current through a setup of coils, but i
cant find any good examples of this, and it will need a couple amps@5v
dc.

Another suggestion was to run some AC through ball-bearings, but i
wonder how this would hold up after being run for 24 hours a day, 7
days a week at 1800 rpm ... Any examples of this being used ? It doesnt
sound too reliable to me.

I pulled apart a couple of little spinning led clocks, and found they
had motors in them which also had a coil assembly for transmitting the
power to the circuit above (kind of a contactless slip-ring. No
Commutator).

This coil/induction setup was 'inside' the motor casing, so i dont
think it was added by the display/clock manufacturer, which comes to my
real question.

Where do these motors come from, i cant find them anywhere! :( does
anyone have any tips for hunting these down ? (also i need something a
little bigger than what i can find in a spinning led clock :) ).

Thanks for any help!
Alex.

Presumably you could add your own slip rings onto the motor shaft where
its outside the casing.

Or if youre clever about it, use 2 motors. The drive motor runs at
3600rpm, and direct drives the spindle of the generating motor mounted
on the LED assy. You now have 2 sources of resistance to movement: the
generator, and the wind resistance on the LEDs. I dont know if you
cuold approximately balance the 2, but if so you'll get 1800rpm LEDs
and an 1800rpm generator both running off a 3600rpm drive motor.

I havent tried it, no :) But if it is workable, it'd be elegant.

High efficiency LEDs, eg ultrabrights, would help with the balance.

Just realised, a zener would help the LEDs get upto speed faster, as
any LED underspeed = genny overspeed, which would be shorted thru the
zener.

And of course theres no reason the genny must do 1800, it might do 400
and the LEDs 1800 etc.


NT
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?
 
S

Sjouke Burry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Quack said:
Hi Everyone,

Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?
Search for a circular transformer(data and power).
Or power only,with data generation on the rotating
platform.
Last solution use copper brush on rings.
 
Q

Quack

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi John,

I have been looking into sliprings, and have contacted over 15
manufacturers and can not find anything suitable, of the
vendors/manufacturers that replied, they all say that 1800rpm and 24/7
100% duty cycle is not reliable and not long lasting and also quite
expensive and requires constant maintenance as the brushes wear out.

So i am looking for a contactless solution.

As for data, i plan to use infra-red or rf.

Thanks though :) ill check out that link.

Alex.
 
R

Rick

Jan 1, 1970
0
Quack said:
Hi John,

I have been looking into sliprings, and have contacted over 15
manufacturers and can not find anything suitable, of the
vendors/manufacturers that replied, they all say that 1800rpm and 24/7
100% duty cycle is not reliable and not long lasting and also quite
expensive and requires constant maintenance as the brushes wear out.

So i am looking for a contactless solution.

As for data, i plan to use infra-red or rf.

Thanks though :) ill check out that link.

Alex.

Slip rings in an automotive alternator operate under some pretty tough conditions, but
yes, contactless would be best
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi John,

I have been looking into sliprings, and have contacted over 15
manufacturers and can not find anything suitable, of the
vendors/manufacturers that replied, they all say that 1800rpm and 24/7
100% duty cycle is not reliable and not long lasting and also quite
expensive and requires constant maintenance as the brushes wear out.

So i am looking for a contactless solution.
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Jan 1, 1970
0
"John Fields"
How much power do you have to transfer and, assuming 120V 60Hz on
the input side, what do you need on the output side (AC-wise) in
terms of voltage and current?

He originally said a "couple of amps" at 5V. That seems a fairly
sizeable amount of power to inductively couple especially if doing it in
small bursts.
 
D

Donald

Jan 1, 1970
0
Quack said:
Hi John,

I have been looking into sliprings, and have contacted over 15
manufacturers and can not find anything suitable, of the
vendors/manufacturers that replied, they all say that 1800rpm and 24/7
100% duty cycle is not reliable and not long lasting and also quite
expensive and requires constant maintenance as the brushes wear out.

So i am looking for a contactless solution.

How much current will need to be transferred ??

Transformer technology is not new,
but the efficiency would be very low.

good luck
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone know of an easy way to get power to an array (100+) of spinning
LED's (and their Mcu's) in a display circuit ?

I was thinking of inducting the current through a setup of coils, but i
cant find any good examples of this, and it will need a couple amps@5v
dc.

Another suggestion was to run some AC through ball-bearings, but i
wonder how this would hold up after being run for 24 hours a day, 7
days a week at 1800 rpm ... Any examples of this being used ? It doesnt
sound too reliable to me.

I pulled apart a couple of little spinning led clocks, and found they
had motors in them which also had a coil assembly for transmitting the
power to the circuit above (kind of a contactless slip-ring. No
Commutator).

This coil/induction setup was 'inside' the motor casing, so i dont
think it was added by the display/clock manufacturer, which comes to my
real question.

Where do these motors come from, i cant find them anywhere! :( does
anyone have any tips for hunting these down ? (also i need something a
little bigger than what i can find in a spinning led clock :) ).

Is this for a roulette wheel? Then you are going to have to pay for
assistance with developing a money-making product...
 
D

Donald

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
Is this for a roulette wheel? Then you are going to have to pay for
assistance with developing a money-making product...

If this were a "money-making" product, then a slip ring would not be too
costly.

Not getting it done would be too costly.

donald
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
"John Fields"


He originally said a "couple of amps" at 5V. That seems a fairly
sizeable amount of power to inductively couple especially if doing it in
small bursts.

About 20 years ago I did some pretty substantial power transfer thru
rotating transformers... of course it was for spacecraft, so price was
no object.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Anyone can be rude, but it takes a Democrat to be a real dirtbag.
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is this for a roulette wheel? Then you are going to have to pay for
assistance with developing a money-making product...
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
About 20 years ago I did some pretty substantial power transfer thru
rotating transformers... of course it was for spacecraft, so price was
no object.
 
A

Anthony Fremont

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson said:
About 20 years ago I did some pretty substantial power transfer thru
rotating transformers... of course it was for spacecraft, so price was
no object.

I'll bet size and weight mattered a bit though. ;-) AIR, the OP said
he wanted to drive 100+ LEDs. I'm really curious as to how large this
device will be. Spinning large masses at 1800RPM is a considerable
task. Well...at least without serious bodily injury anyway. ;-)
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll bet size and weight mattered a bit though. ;-) AIR, the OP said
he wanted to drive 100+ LEDs. I'm really curious as to how large this
device will be. Spinning large masses at 1800RPM is a considerable
task. Well...at least without serious bodily injury anyway. ;-)

Try a 2-ton satellite spinning at 4RPM hanging from a crane in a test
facility at Sperry Satellite Systems Division.

Made we so nervous I stood behind a steel roof support girder during
all the tests.

I designed the spin motor drive ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Anyone can be rude, but it takes a Democrat to be a real dirtbag.
 
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