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powering a LED through the human skin

L

Lyn

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to solve a problem of having wires going up to an MP3
player to the earpiece. I also didn't want the weight of batteries,
e.g. via a Bluetooth or other wireless head set. I did an experiment
where I used conductive paint to mark out some tracks on my skin to
replace wires. The conductive paint is very flexible (I put it on my
hand which flexed a lot ) and there seemed to be enough current to
drive a LED throught my hand.
Image here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sensecam/267793137/

Might be useful applications like powering ear pieces, military apps,
body sensors, health monitoring, jewels, art etc.
I'm only doing experiments with AM analog signals at present, not
digital but may in future.
I also did some experiments with powering a crystal earpiece throught
the skin (no conductive paint, just skin resistance)
My question is, has this been done before (i.e .power not just signals)
? (I know about the IBM Zimmerman expt ). It's seems obvious but a
google search reveals nothing.


Lyn
 
P

Peter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lyn said:
I am trying to solve a problem of having wires going up to an MP3
player to the earpiece. I also didn't want the weight of batteries,
e.g. via a Bluetooth or other wireless head set. I did an experiment
where I used conductive paint to mark out some tracks on my skin to
replace wires. The conductive paint is very flexible (I put it on my
hand which flexed a lot ) and there seemed to be enough current to
drive a LED throught my hand.
Image here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sensecam/267793137/

Might be useful applications like powering ear pieces, military apps,
body sensors, health monitoring, jewels, art etc.
I'm only doing experiments with AM analog signals at present, not
digital but may in future.
I also did some experiments with powering a crystal earpiece throught
the skin (no conductive paint, just skin resistance)
My question is, has this been done before (i.e .power not just signals)
? (I know about the IBM Zimmerman expt ). It's seems obvious but a
google search reveals nothing.


Lyn
Its a nice idea but full of problems. Skin painting is probably a bad idea
from the toxicity of the solvents and heavy metals involved. Also if you
have any significant power then the flexing will eventually make a high
resistance somewhere and that will give you a burn. Not to mention it would
make you look stupid. Why don't you try integrating a wiring system into
clothing?

Peter
 
L

Lyn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Peter,
Thank you.
Some good points.
Many artists wear silver body paint, so non toxic.
Well it might look daft, but people have tatoos as art, so that is a
matter of opinion.

I'm only passing 1-2mA through skin at present, but your issue on
possible skin damage may be valid.

Re " try integrating a wiring system into clothing?"
Because its too easy and already been done. Also not all the body is
clothed, e.g. arms, face, neck etc.


Lyn
 
D

Didi

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think your idea is good and can make you good money if
you are fast enough. 1-2 mA is not a lot, but with some more
experiments you may be able to achieve 10 mA or so. Then, you
may try sticking very thin enammeled wire to the skin (say, 0.06
or something, it is flexible enough to last for the evening
and will only take some glue - and will carry more than 10 mA...).
You will probably have to zig-zag bend the wire before sticking
so it will withstand the skin expansions etc...

Dimiter
 
T

Tom Lucas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lyn said:
I am trying to solve a problem of having wires going up to an MP3
player to the earpiece. I also didn't want the weight of batteries,
e.g. via a Bluetooth or other wireless head set. I did an experiment
where I used conductive paint to mark out some tracks on my skin to
replace wires. The conductive paint is very flexible (I put it on my
hand which flexed a lot ) and there seemed to be enough current to
drive a LED throught my hand.
Image here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sensecam/267793137/

Might be useful applications like powering ear pieces, military apps,
body sensors, health monitoring, jewels, art etc.
I'm only doing experiments with AM analog signals at present, not
digital but may in future.
I also did some experiments with powering a crystal earpiece throught
the skin (no conductive paint, just skin resistance)
My question is, has this been done before (i.e .power not just
signals)
? (I know about the IBM Zimmerman expt ). It's seems obvious but a
google search reveals nothing.

It's a very good idea but marketing it would be a challenge. There may
also be other applications. One that springs to mind is the huge coils
of wire running from behind the ears of newsreaders and sports
reporters. I'm sure people like that wouldn't object to a couple of
flesh-toned tracks being painted along their hairlines and down their
necks as long as they could be blended in with make-up.

Another thought is dumb kids who will wear anything that is fashionable.
Considering how white iPod earphones have become a fashion accessory
then musical "war paint" is probably exactly what the Fifty Pence and
Duff Paddy generation are likely to embrace. Market it as a cosmetic
thing rather than a convenience thing and you might get away with it. If
you can get Fiddy to wear it instead of his monitor earpiece then sales
will really boom.

Of course, you'll need some money to get it approved as safe for use.
I'll bet that leaving a metallic liquid on your skin for any length of
time is not very good for your health.
 
F

Frithiof Andreas Jensen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Might be useful applications like powering ear pieces, military apps,
body sensors, health monitoring, jewels, art etc.
I'm only doing experiments with AM analog signals at present, not
digital but may in future.
I also did some experiments with powering a crystal earpiece throught
the skin (no conductive paint, just skin resistance)
My question is, has this been done before (i.e .power not just signals)
? (I know about the IBM Zimmerman expt ). It's seems obvious but a
google search reveals nothing.

Not that *I* am aware of - neat idea, btw. The paint is somewhat brittle maybe
one can wire up stuff on mylar-film based circuits (www.dyconex.com)

However, if you want patents later you could not have asked here because that is
Publishing.
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lyn said:
Re " try integrating a wiring system into clothing?"
Because its too easy and already been done. Also not all the body is
clothed, e.g. arms, face, neck etc.

How about a tattoo in conductive ink?

I wonder if you could tattoo someone with ITO (indium tin oxide; used
as the electrode material in LCDs). That way you could run _invisible_
wires through the skin.

Of course if you're willing to put up with this much pain, perhaps just
running a thin wire through the dermis might be the right plan.
 
T

Tom Lucas

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
How about a tattoo in conductive ink?

I wonder if you could tattoo someone with ITO (indium tin oxide; used
as the electrode material in LCDs). That way you could run _invisible_
wires through the skin.
Of course if you're willing to put up with this much pain, perhaps
just
running a thin wire through the dermis might be the right plan.

It never ceases to surprise me the ways in which people mutilate
themselves. The service department secretary here has her _wrist_
pierced along with a number of other appendages. You wouldn't have to
add many more to find a conductive path from her pocket to her ears!
 
L

Lyn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the patent reminder, I posted here as i'm not planning on
patenting it, I'm doing it just for fun & research.
My last patent on this same subject covered most of the idea:

http://tinyurl.com/2vgx6


Lyn
 
L

Lyn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thank you, these are all constructive replies.

Newreaders may well like an almost invisible auto prompt.
Children love face paint.
Invisible ink sounds good.
BTW the silver paint wore off me after about 12 hours, not mutilation!
:)

I used silver paint with resistance 0.02 to 0.05 ohms/sq/mil.
www.rswww.com


Might be useful for medical electronics where people who have a few
heart electrodes wired on them 24/7. It might be more comfortable than
wires everywhere.



Lyn
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tom said:
Another thought is dumb kids who will wear anything that is fashionable.
Considering how white iPod earphones have become a fashion accessory
then musical "war paint" is probably exactly what the Fifty Pence and
Duff Paddy generation are likely to embrace. Market it as a cosmetic

Oh, you've only scratched the surface of the application. The next step
is to paint a piezoelectric tweeter onto the side of your head.
 
J

John O'Flaherty

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
How about a tattoo in conductive ink?

I wonder if you could tattoo someone with ITO (indium tin oxide; used
as the electrode material in LCDs). That way you could run _invisible_
wires through the skin.

Of course if you're willing to put up with this much pain, perhaps just
running a thin wire through the dermis might be the right plan.

You may as well go whole hog then, and imbed LEDs under the skin,
connected by the subcutaneous wires you already have in place. Can you
imagine what some people might pay for a tattoo that lights up? Or
flashes?
 
T

Tom Lucas

Jan 1, 1970
0
larwe said:
Oh, you've only scratched the surface of the application. The next
step
is to paint a piezoelectric tweeter onto the side of your head.

Better still, do it to a friend while they are asleep and be "the voices
in their head" ;-)
 
L

Lyn

Jan 1, 1970
0
The piezo speakers works well on just ordinary skin , it's audible and
only takes a tiny amount of current.
Well I DO like the idea of a light up tatoo, perhaps someone can design
an inductive loop under the skin to power it up? We could be colour
coded according to our preferences...


I got into a bit of bother when I first invented device :
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1254911,00.html

So I'm filing no patents on it, just putting the idea into the public
domain for the possible benefit of art, research and fun! I prefer to
share ideas rather than make money from them.


Lyn
 
R

René

Jan 1, 1970
0
I now understand the purpose of "Organic Leds"...


Just a matter of time before all mankind will be fitted with
standardized audio / video inputs.

The rear base of the scull seems a good place...

(A blue pill anyone?)
 
A

amdx

Jan 1, 1970
0
René said:
I now understand the purpose of "Organic Leds"...


Just a matter of time before all mankind will be fitted with
standardized audio / video inputs.

The rear base of the scull seems a good place...
I'm waiting for the TV screen on the backside of my eyelids.
Mike
 
L

larwe

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
You may as well go whole hog then, and imbed LEDs under the skin,
connected by the subcutaneous wires you already have in place. Can you
imagine what some people might pay for a tattoo that lights up? Or

I'm thinking there must be a way to do this with bioluminescent dyes.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
amdx said:
I'm waiting for the TV screen on the backside of my eyelids.
Mike


Don't bother, there isn't any TV worth watching anymore. :(


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
M

Mr. Radio

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael A. Terrell said:
Don't bother, there isn't any TV worth watching anymore. :(


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

There's always your "favorite" DVDS but then - well we won't go where they'd
have to mount those......
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
I now understand the purpose of "Organic Leds"...

Just a matter of time before all mankind will be fitted with standardized
audio / video inputs.

The rear base of the scull seems a good place...

(A blue pill anyone?)


Yeah - then we can store them in racks, and they can all live in virtual
reality, like at the end of "Brazil".... Nobody will ever have to go
anywhere! Or care! =:-O

Thanks!
RIch
 
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