Proposed ban on LCD and Plasma screens ?

[John Tserkezis]

Do you in fact know of ANY that have built their own power station?

CSR (the sugar people) have a coal power generation plant in their refinery.
At least the one in sydney we visited did (a gazillion years ago).
I can't remember the power it was capable of generating, but it was
relatively small. (Relative to power generation stations)

Alcoa in Portland had a special transmission line installed for them, at
taxpayer expense of course. And they get a special electricity rate far
lower than domestic users pay.

When your power bill is in the order of a bazillion dollars a year, they
jump over hoops, and the GovCo gets into the act by saying "their" substidy is
good because it creates many more jobs (and much more taxes).
It gets paid for one way or another.

In Alcoa's case, they determined that power lines from the main grid (and
along with other subsidies) was cheaper than doing it themselves.

At the end of the day, it always comes down to two things: Dollars and Cents.

 

[John Tserkezis]

Just to note that our local Coles and Kmart stores are no longer
selling incandescents, only CFLs. The Coles manager "informed" me
that incandescents will be banned soon.

I think it's more of a pre-emptive strike than anything else.

So it may be true or perhaps Coles like the bigger profit margins on
the CFLs.

Oh yeah. That sounds MUCH more plausible than the "banning real soon
now" lines.

 

[L.A.T.]

** Must be right off with the Pixies.

Are you sure you don't mean "Pixels"?

The Devil made me do it.

 

[Suzy]

Just to note that our local Coles and Kmart stores are no longer
selling incandescents, only CFLs. The Coles manager "informed" me
that incandescents will be banned soon.

So it may be true or perhaps Coles like the bigger profit margins on
the CFLs.

Typical! Yes, undoubtedly the big boys see a ramp they can fleece us with
(nice mixed metaphor). Here Woolies still have plenty of stocks. Have not
tried Coles.

 

[Suzy]

Sure, coal fired plant *can* be slower than gas plant, particularly gas
turbines. But it isn't that slow. Even for chain grate combustion...hour
or so at most. Fair bit quicker for pulverised fuel.

The main reason why domestic lighting changes will have minimal aggregate
effect on GHG is simply that proportionally their contribution to total
energy usage is close to zip, simple as that.

For once I agree entirely with Phil, and I'm glad someone quoted him and
thus defeated my killfile list on this occasion!

 

[Franc Zabkar]

I doubt it. I expect that lamps and/or inverters will need to be
replaced within 5 years.

Worldwide the greenie weenies are like terrier dogs - once they get their
teeth into something they won't let go until they get something banned!

If they push this issue, then hopefully the consumer backlash will
consign them to political oblivion where they belong.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Was talking to a colleague today associated with computer parts
distribution, he mentioned that he has heard rumours of a "proposed
ban on sales of LCD / Plasma type monitors" for
"environmental" (energy saving) reasons, instead presumably "mandating
CRT type technology due to it being more efficient ?"

First thought was that it is ridiculous and a bit of a joke - but then
again I admit to thinking similarly about the recent ban on iron-core
transformer plugpacks and incandescant lighting (both of which turned
out to be true, and both were hotly debated on this forum).

Have no idea which government body is proposing it or if its even
true. In any case - I think its too late as these displays have
firmly entrenched themselves into the market in PC and TV.

I can't imagine ever reverting to a CRT display for my PC, if only for
ergonomic reasons. An LCD monitor places *much* less strain on my eyes
than any CRT ever did.

Instead I'd like to see the public service lead by example and switch
to less power hungry CPUs, eg VIA C3 CPU (20 watts max at 1.4GHz)
instead of AMD64 or Intel Core 2 Duo. I suspect that an energy audit
of our various government bodies would reveal enough energy savings to
decommision an entire power plant.

Anyone here has any info on it ?

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Dorfus Dippintush]

For once I agree entirely with Phil, and I'm glad someone quoted him and
thus defeated my killfile list on this occasion!

Coal feeders in power stations use variable speed drives and can (and
do) change load in seconds. Getting a boiler to raise steam temperature
may take a few minutes, but the load change on a grid system is very
gradual unless a generator drops off the system due to a fault. See if
you can get hold of a load graph. The bigger the grid the more stable it
is. I think nearly all coal fired power stations in Australia would use
pulverized coal. I doubt any would use moving grates.

Peak loads caused by reverse cycle air conditioners are the main problem
on a grid. That's when you'd run a peaking plant such as gas or oil. Oil
is very expensive. Most grids get around this now by getting industry to
shut down non-essential plant, this is done by the grid controller using
an automated control system.

Dorfus

 

[Mauried]

"Mauried"


** Huh ?

You got any proof of this ??

AFAIK halogen bulbs will get the chop too - maybe just a little later than
the common ES and BC lamps do.

This is taken directly from the Greenhouse Office website in their FAQ
section re Halogens.

* Good quality halogen lights will continue to be available, but
halogen lights that use too much energy will be phased out.


And thats the only referance I can find re halogen lights and any ban.

Given that there is no definition of what constitutes a halogen light
that uses too much energy its hard to know what they are talking
about,re whats going to be phased out.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Mauried"

This is taken directly from the Greenhouse Office website in their FAQ
section re Halogens.

* Good quality halogen lights will continue to be available, but
halogen lights that use too much energy will be phased out.


And thats the only referance I can find re halogen lights and any ban.

** Yep - and it basically says that halogens are to be banned.

Given that there is no definition of what constitutes a halogen light
that uses too much energy its hard to know what they are talking
about,re whats going to be phased out.

** The efficiency of small halogen bulbs ( ie dichroic downlights) is hardy
any better than that of standard incandescent bulbs.

The only " halogens" you can expect to escape the ban are large wattage
types ( ie PAR lamps etc ) used mainly for outdoor lighting & entertainment
purposes.




........ Phil

 

[Mr.T]

When your power bill is in the order of a bazillion dollars a year, they
jump over hoops, and the GovCo gets into the act by saying "their" substidy is
good because it creates many more jobs (and much more taxes).
It gets paid for one way or another.

As long as you ignore how much the taxpayer is subsidising some jobs, whilst
saying too bad to thousands of others!
What makes an Alcoa job more important than a Telstra one for example?

In Alcoa's case, they determined that power lines from the main grid (and
along with other subsidies) was cheaper than doing it themselves.

Of course it is, when you are being subsidised by other users and taxpayers!

At the end of the day, it always comes down to two things: Dollars and

Cents.

No, greed and corruption!

MrT.

 

[John Tserkezis]

What makes an Alcoa job more important than a Telstra one for example?

It makes more money for govco. And they're the only ones who count.

(and along with other subsidies) was cheaper than doing it themselves.

Of course it is, when you are being subsidised by other users and taxpayers!

But, after some time, they're going to make that money back via pay tax on
the people who work there. (where they wouldn't if alcoa wasn't there).
Not only that, they're going to keep making money once it's paid off.

Only cost is in the meantime (short term), they're down n Gazillion dollars.
That's of no consequence, because they can make up the shortfall with little
money spinners like another fuel levy, or more speed cameras or something
equally as benign to society.

No, greed and corruption!

And the difference is??

 

[Mr.T]

It makes more money for govco. And they're the only ones who count.

Crappo, Telstra made 4 Billion dollars a year for the government before it
was sold.

taxpayers!

But, after some time, they're going to make that money back via pay tax on
the people who work there.

And they didn't from Telstra workers WITHOUT a subsidy?
And what about all the other companies and workers that recieve NO
subsidies?

(where they wouldn't if alcoa wasn't there).
Not only that, they're going to keep making money once it's paid off.

I can't see how if the electricity subsidies need to be increased as the
cost of generation increases.
But you're welcome to the fantasy.

Only cost is in the meantime (short term), they're down n Gazillion dollars.
That's of no consequence, because they can make up the shortfall with little
money spinners like another fuel levy, or more speed cameras or something
equally as benign to society.

Which of course they would still get WITHOUT the drain of uneconomic
industries.

And the difference is??

With our CEO's and politicians, nothing.

MrT.

 

[David Segall]

Do you in fact know of ANY that have built their own power station?
Alcoa in Portland had a special transmission line installed for them, at
taxpayer expense of course. And they get a special electricity rate far
lower than domestic users pay.

Alcoa built a power station in Anglesea, where there are coal
deposits, to supply their Point Henry smelter.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Phil Allison"

** The efficiency of small halogen bulbs ( ie dichroic downlights) is
hardy any better than that of standard incandescent bulbs.

The only " halogens" you can expect to escape the ban are large wattage
types ( ie PAR lamps etc ) used mainly for outdoor lighting &
entertainment purposes.

** It has come to my attention ( via the marvels of Google and Wiki ) that
there is another class of small halogen bulbs - called " Halogen IR" for
halogen-infrared.

Very few examples exist on the market anywhere ( apart from a special
headlamp bulb used in a Toyota vehicle) but they may find a whole new
market if the usual kind of halogen bulbs are banned en masse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp#Halogen_infrared





........ Phil

 

[Poxy]

"Phil Allison"



** It has come to my attention ( via the marvels of Google and Wiki )
that there is another class of small halogen bulbs - called "
Halogen IR" for halogen-infrared.

Very few examples exist on the market anywhere ( apart from a special
headlamp bulb used in a Toyota vehicle)

I don't know about "very few" - Osram have had their Decostar IRC halogen
bulbs out for quite a while, and there are probably other brands.

 

[Clifford Heath]

LCD screens do not use phosphors. They use filters.

Where does the light come from that they filter?

Phosphors.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

The lamps in the LCD screens are typically rated to about 50,000 to 60,000
hours. At 12 hours per day use, this should be about 11 to 15 years! I
would think that the power supply, and other sections of the set will
probably die before the lamps do!

I have had to fix several LCD monitors. Most had inverter problems.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Bob Parker]

No. Not phosphors. LEDS ( well actually transistors if you want to split
hairs).


geoff

Thanks for telling me the light source is LEDs/transistors. All the
time I thought there were compact fluorescent lamps (containing mercury
and phosphors) behind the LCD panel.


Bob

 

[Phil Allison]

"Bob Parker"

Thanks for telling me the light source is LEDs/transistors. All the time
I thought there were compact fluorescent lamps (containing mercury and
phosphors) behind the LCD panel.

** Wot - those evil little buggers are hiding everywhere !!




......... Phil ;-)