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Protocols and Systems

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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As a midi enthusiast I am facing some challenges with PC OS types and program compatibility. Knowing you guys are digital in aspect doesn't really help much, and saying the word analog in a recording studio is certain failure. Ok. Hope you are feeling better now.

I have a sound diver midi interface program installed in an XPS windows 2.8g Dell Dimension E310
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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Anywho... Knowing anything about midi knows it is designed to allow one machine to operate another. This is great when each device has its own output amp, and they are all active. But my debacle here is a non functioning device finder.... That is to say all the bells whistles and lights are flashing, but the program isn't finding the device. Now I ain't a numb knuts when it comes to what programs are supposed to do, and the solution seems to be simple but on a PC, that usually means fatal error. Let me be frank... With all this system designed to do what it does, why is it not doing it? And is there a blade type, ATX PC, USB work around for the RS422 - RS232 - USB incompatibility problem??
 

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roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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Also. I am old school. RS whatever ...were introduced to me as serial port protocols. They are all initiated through the Universal Serial Bus... Which was said to be most used with the DB9 connector.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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This is Sound Divers Response to all my attempts.... What in a turtles armour is that supposed to insight... A riotous giggle in hysterical manner as things take assisted flight around the studio... Broken glass extra, news at 11...???
 

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roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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Oh oh.. this device is now in the os library any where.... It always stops here.
 

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Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Perhaps i misunderstand.
I thought DB-9 was RS323 protocol.
I could be very wrong here, but I don’t think it’s anything to do with universal serial port (usb).
RS232 ;)
 

kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Not many modern PCs have a genuine RS232 port any more. As a result, USB-RS232 converters were developed to get around this HOWEVER they are not all the same. Depending on the pins being used to implement the RS232 comms your USB-version device may not access them all. Half-duplex, full duplex, XON/XOFF etc, the cheaper (and nastier) USB-RS232 converters simply won't do it.

Spend a few more $ and get one that is FULLY compatible first.

That said, RS232 isn't MIDI. You have to convert. Better still, get a converter that goes straight from USB to MIDI - they do exist.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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Martaine IS missing something!!!

This amt8 thing is an 8 device interface, with ins and outs for each device, 16 ports for either 2x2 parallel connections or in- to -out , serial connections. It is supposed to be recognized by a software using the #1 out, but I thought it is designed to be computer interfacable through either rs232, rs422 or USB. No connection to it found on my PC program. I know it's not the amt8 because it works fine without the computer hooked up. So I had decided it was my computers midi system, nothing else works on that midi port. I was hoping to use USB for the computer interface rather than midi. I thought that's why the amt8 has computer ports in it, but now they are telling me that those are for multiple amt8's in their own daisy chain.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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After connecting midi ports 2x2, my keyboard plays all my midi devices. But when I connect my korg microkorg to the line in on my secondary stereo mixer, the midi will not trigger. Connected to the normal fader inputs, it triggers fine. What might cause the triggering loss when a different type of mixer input is used...RCA Line line out, vs 1/4" phone jack out... Seems to me that is kind of weird...
 

Martaine2005

May 12, 2015
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Are you connecting it to an output? Rather than input?.
You say “input” then “output “.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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MIDI is supposed to be a compatible system. It has an output, which allows the device to change the configuration, or a Thru, which. Doesn't change anything.
It's easiest metaphor of explanation is "Kind of like An active TSR program on a computer OS, that is fully built in to hardware of a machine."
MIDI specifications state that implementation is with the output, but usually has an Input that allows triggered response by other machines, is also built in. So if you find only one MIDI plug, it's impossible to tell without manufacturer specific data .
Three ports, being Full implementation, Two ports - an Out and In as Standard implementation
Two ports - an In and Thru as fully Compatible implementation
One port - Usually an Input is implemented as a single ended terminal

Now you know about the plug-ins
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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In the eighty's, most manufacturers added a computer interface port to the system. This allowed for a DAW or "digital audio workstation" to function as a controller for the devices in the chain, kind of like a cut down version of SCSI or "skuzzy"., but easier to install. Almost immediately, large manufacturing added SCSI ports for incompatibility issues, but the two protocols were not compatible. Arrays of programs, special operating systems, and rules were applied to each machine, and without the correct set of equipment, the systems function only in daisy chain mode, and are not considered "DAW", friendly.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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The manufacture of full DAW machines, with built in midi ports, completely destroyed any hope for a complete MIDI system, and culminated if the "PARIS" system, which is basically a midi DAW rather than an "audio workstation".

The main problem point being each MIDI machine, should have its own amp and speakers, or be connected to a mixer which is connected to an amp and speakers.

I have two synthesizer keyboards, two complete drum set triggers, a reverb and effect box, a midi player, an SD recorder sampler, a drumbox, along with my main DAW, that all have MIDI built-in.

If I need to produce a sound which can be duplicated, you can see that I require a computer interface to handle all the programming. Having both of my midi interfaces just up and quit, has destroyed my studio investment and I have begun to migrate toward Audio-Video production, rather than primarily sample and jingle production. No one buys commercials anymore, so I am trying to get a midi system built for resale value purposes. Quite a chore for an aging disco guitarist.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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I call my studio, "Gnatz Studio". And I am primarily 5.1 audio focused, that's where you have front speakers , rear speakers, a center speaker and a Subwoofer. This is the heart of the gaming worlds, "ideal sound". There are a few complete systems that offer higher quality but it comes at a cost most won't afford. I have broiled down to computer implementation, and after testing a couple interfaces, realized that putting a computer in my studio should be focused
on informative podcast recordings, and education. Yes, a Studio is required to make educational content for schooling!

As for me. I have my own personal cliches which make my stage unique. It takes 3 sessions to orient my players to the conditions they will be performing under, but this necessary and required on most stages. The old stages are getting old and delapidated, the old auditoriums have become mal odorous, and dank. It's time to downsize and think big! It's a great time in the entertainment business, but finding a troup willing to become dedicated is nearly impossible, with education promises failing, and new shows rare and few between.

I wish there was a way to argue with businesses that are already setup and active, but they won't listen or change. Players are on their own, but they always have been, so there isn't really any hurdles.
 

roughshawd

Jul 13, 2020
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I like vintage questions about simple stuff!!! Not college educated, so I am not the guy to ask which chip to use to make things work. A shop machinist education. Well yes it does matter which side is up!
Electronics is my #1 habitual derivative. Lots of simple fixes to perform. MIDI is a complex protocol, I was just looking for work arounds to old software that's not available anymore. !!
 
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