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Question about an oddity

D

Dark Alchemist

Jan 1, 1970
0
How do I remove positive hi-voltage miniscule amps from a 12vdc line? I
guess that would be called ripple maybe? What happens is you can touch
the dc power wires and get a crackling and touch the bare wires and a
spark will jump to your finger. Somehow I need to isolate that from
going down the 12vdc lines and was thinking a capacitor on the positive
and negative lines or would that break the 12vdc and only the hivoltage
would pass through?
 
R

Russell Miller

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dark said:
How do I remove positive hi-voltage miniscule amps from a 12vdc line? I
guess that would be called ripple maybe? What happens is you can touch
the dc power wires and get a crackling and touch the bare wires and a
spark will jump to your finger. Somehow I need to isolate that from
going down the 12vdc lines and was thinking a capacitor on the positive
and negative lines or would that break the 12vdc and only the hivoltage
would pass through?

Where is this high voltage coming from? I think that a high-value capacitor
in parallel with the power supply would smooth out the ripple, and then you
can run it through a 12V regulator, as long as the voltage isn't too high.
Don't forget that the smoothing effect of the capacitor will raise the
output voltage from 12V to somewhere in between 12V and the peak ripple
voltage, so you might want to consider using a 7812 regulator and perhaps a
series resistor to drop the voltage if it's too high.

--Russell
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dark said:
How do I remove positive hi-voltage miniscule amps from a 12vdc line? I
guess that would be called ripple maybe? What happens is you can touch
the dc power wires and get a crackling and touch the bare wires and a
spark will jump to your finger. Somehow I need to isolate that from
going down the 12vdc lines and was thinking a capacitor on the positive
and negative lines or would that break the 12vdc and only the hivoltage
would pass through?

This sounds like static electricity accumulating on an isolated
supply. Tell us more about the supply and load. Perhaps there is an
easy to safely drain this high potential.
 
D

Dark Alchemist

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
This sounds like static electricity accumulating on an isolated
supply. Tell us more about the supply and load. Perhaps there is an
easy to safely drain this high potential.

This is negative ion generator (all epoxy sealed) sold from an
electronics supply house. What it appears to be is exactly as you said
because it barely works until I touch the outer 2 wires that are coming
from a 12vdc 800ma wall adapter. I can touch anywheres along the outer
plastic jacket and it will begin to work properly. So, it appears I
need to drain this somehow but how using the wall adapter?

Thank you.
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dark said:
This is negative ion generator (all epoxy sealed) sold from an
electronics supply house. What it appears to be is exactly as you said
because it barely works until I touch the outer 2 wires that are coming
from a 12vdc 800ma wall adapter. I can touch anywheres along the outer
plastic jacket and it will begin to work properly. So, it appears I
need to drain this somehow but how using the wall adapter?

Run a wire from either side of the adapter output to the ground socket
of another receptacle. You can use a new plug, but just wire to the
ground pin. Or you can put a fork terminal on the end of the wire,
and slip it under the cover plate mounting screw.
 
D

Dark Alchemist

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Run a wire from either side of the adapter output to the ground socket
of another receptacle. You can use a new plug, but just wire to the
ground pin. Or you can put a fork terminal on the end of the wire,
and slip it under the cover plate mounting screw.

so solder a third wire to the negative side and attach the other side to
ground?
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dark said:
so solder a third wire to the negative side and attach the other side to
ground?

That is the general idea. I don't know whether it would be best to
ground the positive or negative side of the DC supply, and it might be
a good idea to put a high resistance in the ground line (100K to 1M,
say). Experiment.
 
D

Dark Alchemist

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
That is the general idea. I don't know whether it would be best to
ground the positive or negative side of the DC supply, and it might be
a good idea to put a high resistance in the ground line (100K to 1M,
say). Experiment.

Well, that makes for one ugly setup :( Wish Goldmine Electronics out of
Scottsdale, AZ would tell the whole story and not say you can even hook
them up to a 9volt battery (when you do the 9 volt battery arcs). It
takes 12volts dc but you have to use a very elaborate scheme to overcome
what could be a potentially dangerous situation. Its not something I
would buy again and I purchased two of the darn things. Only workaround
I can see is to ditch the 2 ac-dc wall transformers and go with a small
transformer in the case using a 3 prong wire so I can have the green
ground wire to attach to the negative (although the positive has voltage
too).
 
J

John G

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dark Alchemist said:
Well, that makes for one ugly setup :( Wish Goldmine Electronics out of
Scottsdale, AZ would tell the whole story and not say you can even hook
them up to a 9volt battery (when you do the 9 volt battery arcs). It
takes 12volts dc but you have to use a very elaborate scheme to overcome
what could be a potentially dangerous situation. Its not something I
would buy again and I purchased two of the darn things. Only workaround
I can see is to ditch the 2 ac-dc wall transformers and go with a small
transformer in the case using a 3 prong wire so I can have the green
ground wire to attach to the negative (although the positive has voltage
too).
Grounding one side or the other should fix your problem.
Both sides have voltage on them but it is the same.
It is the same Hi Potential because both sides are
effectivly together as far
as the Hi Voltage is concerned.
The internal resistance of the Plug Pack is very low
compared to the air
between the whole device and ground.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you ground anything, ground the positive lead, if your intent
is to generate ions. Supposedly, negative ions make you feel good,
and positive ions make you feel bad.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
D

Dark Alchemist

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
If you ground anything, ground the positive lead, if your intent
is to generate ions. Supposedly, negative ions make you feel good,
and positive ions make you feel bad.

Good Luck!
Rich

If I ground the positive lead what do I put between the positive and
ground or else it will not work.

Thanks.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
I you can't ground the positive side of the supply while the
rest of it is isolated from everything, then the power supply
isn't suitable for a negative ion generator.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
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