Re: Hey do you know your car's alternator only outputs 7-10% while it'srunning?

[Eeyore]

I removed alternators off many vehicles over 50 times per month. Not even
single mistake have I made. I am giving you this tip for your own benefit.
Oh by the way any one of your idiots know how to double the power off your
Alternator? Let's say it's a 150amp alt, can you double its output? The
answer is Yes you can.

No you can't.

To double the output would require 300A output.

The windings have electrical resistance and the heating effect follows the
SQUARE of the current. In short, to double the output would generate FOUR times
more waste heat in the alyernator coils and they would burn out. That is, if
the rectifier diodes didn't pack up first !

This is very basic 'kiddy science'. You're a damn lunatic.

Graham

 

[daestrom]

No you can't.

To double the output would require 300A output.

The windings have electrical resistance and the heating effect follows the
SQUARE of the current. In short, to double the output would generate FOUR times
more waste heat in the alyernator coils and they would burn out. That is, if
the rectifier diodes didn't pack up first !

Actually, you can. By replacing the regulator and possibly the diodes,
you can raise the voltage up to 24, 48, even 120 VDC. With the same
current rating, you get more output.

But the downside is too high a voltage and you have to replace the
rectifiers, and you have to build your own regulator.

And of course the prime mover must be large enough to supply the extra
power. And you have to spin the thing at a pretty good speed, much
higher than any windmill application (which is what this guy keeps
trying to pawn his junk off on)

daestrom

 

[Hammy]

Actually, you can. By replacing the regulator and possibly the diodes,
you can raise the voltage up to 24, 48, even 120 VDC. With the same
current rating, you get more output.

But the downside is too high a voltage and you have to replace the
rectifiers, and you have to build your own regulator.

And of course the prime mover must be large enough to supply the extra
power. And you have to spin the thing at a pretty good speed, much
higher than any windmill application (which is what this guy keeps
trying to pawn his junk off on)

daestrom

In short you cant get more power without substantial modifications
(electrical and mechanical) to the extent you will have a completely
different alternator then when you started and it probably would have
been cheaper to buy one at the desired rateing.

They would'nt build em with that much derateing. Economics 101.

 

[[email protected]]

No you can't.

To double the output would require 300A output.

The windings have electrical resistance and the heating effect follows the
SQUARE of the current. In short, to double the output would generate FOUR times
more waste heat in the alyernator coils and they would burn out. That is, if
the rectifier diodes didn't pack up first !

This is very basic 'kiddy science'. You're a damn lunatic.

Graham

Actually it is VERY easy to double the output of an alternator - just
not in the automotive charging system. A 12 volt 100 anp alternator is
1200 watts. Crank the voltage up to 24 and it is 2400 watts. At 100
volts it is10,000 watts (but might be getting a bit warm) and the belt
would likely be getting ready to smoke.

A 35 amp chrysler alternator from the late sixties to mid 70s could
handle 30 amps at roughly 125 volts for hours on end.

 

[PeterD]

Where you get that from Asshole? Do you realize Power Output is not measured in AMP but in WATT?

When voltage is fixed (as an automotive alternator is) then power is
measured in amps, which are directly related to watts. Eeyore is 100%
right, and you're a complete spamming moron.

So to double 3000 Watts, is to multiply its output power by 2. i.,e 3000watt x 2 = 6000watt.
Amp is not the only thing to dictate output power, it has to go alone with sustainable voltage.

So you are going to double the voltage instead? Neat trick, should
work really well!

So with your stupid logic 3V X 300AMP = 900watt.

Well, for a moron you can do simple math. Too bad logic escapes you.

That's not even double output,

Double output of what?

that less than double don't you know Punk?





It's time for you to quick acting smart Eeyore (or Graham) because you aren't smart PUNK!!
You smell bad for many years, I know your history more than you know mine.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha... OK, try another troll.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

Amp is not the only thing to dictate output power, it has to go alone with sustainable voltage.

Please go away, you less than even the worst layman IDIOT!

 

[daestrom]

In short you cant get more power without substantial modifications
(electrical and mechanical) to the extent you will have a completely
different alternator then when you started and it probably would have
been cheaper to buy one at the desired rateing.

If you call replacing the regulator, 'extensive modification'. You
don't have to rewire it, or replace bearings or rewind the rotor. Most
folks don't consider this 'extensive'.

There's no 'mechanical' changes required at all. You just have to spin
it with a suitable prime-mover.

They would'nt build em with that much derateing. Economics 101.

Nope. 'They' build them to run on 12V at a given RPM with a regulator
that is designed to match it. It turns out that the design of a 24V
alternator is pretty much exactly the same. Ergo, 'they' designed an
alternator that can put out twice the power that it currently does. But
'they' didn't want to change over the entire car to 24V, so they operate
the alternator at 12V (nominal).

daestrom

 

[daestrom]

When voltage is fixed (as an automotive alternator is) then power is
measured in amps, which are directly related to watts. Eeyore is 100%
right, and you're a complete spamming moron.

Much as I hate to agree with that troll, you *can* change the operating
voltage of an alternator pretty easily. You don't want to do it while
it's in your car, but it's very easy when removed from your car and
driven by another prime mover.

But you still have to spin it at a couple thousand RPM, so they are
pretty difficult to use with wind turbines (a point that troll keeps
missing).

daestrom

 

[Hammy]

Nope. 'They' build them to run on 12V at a given RPM with a regulator
that is designed to match it. It turns out that the design of a 24V
alternator is pretty much exactly the same. Ergo, 'they' designed an
alternator that can put out twice the power that it currently does. But
'they' didn't want to change over the entire car to 24V, so they operate
the alternator at 12V (nominal).

daestrom

My knowledge of motors and generators is hazy. I haven't touched one
since school. With the exception of steppers.

In your own words.

I would consider this pretty substantial. It would also be necessary
if you wanted a reliable product.

There's a large difference between building one thing and running it
on the bench for a few hours periodical and going oh it works.Versus
say building thousands that will be operated by a wide variety of
people in a wide environmental and/or industrial setting. Unless of
course you're a fly by night company (scammer) preying on uninformed
people then I guess you wouldn't give a shit.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

But you still have to spin it at a couple thousand RPM, so they are
pretty difficult to use with wind turbines (a point that troll keeps
missing).

daestrom

The old generators in cars required high rpms to function efficiently.

Alternators were designed and incorporated into cars specifically
because they do NOT require a high rpm to have efficient output, so you
are wrong about the 2k rpm minimum.

Also, idiot, and wind turbine (ALL in fact) gear the blade speed up to
drive the alternator at a higher rpm. It would be no problem to convert
blade rotation into a higher rpm shaft drive.

I do agree with you though that richardson is a dopey dumbfuck.

 

[Hammy]

My knowledge of motors and generators is hazy. I haven't touched one
since school. With the exception of steppers.

In your own words.


I would consider this pretty substantial. It would also be necessary
if you wanted a reliable product.

There's a large difference between building one thing and running it
on the bench for a few hours periodical and going oh it works.Versus
say building thousands that will be operated by a wide variety of
people in a wide environmental and/or industrial setting. Unless of
course you're a fly by night company (scammer) preying on uninformed
people then I guess you wouldn't give a shit.

Whoops disregard the previous I looked up prime mover. I mistook it
for armature.

 

[Johnny B Good]

The message <[email protected]>

The old generators in cars required high rpms to function efficiently.

Alternators were designed and incorporated into cars specifically
because they do NOT require a high rpm to have efficient output, so you
are wrong about the 2k rpm minimum.

Not quite right. Alternators could use a much stronger rotating field
assembly with an anti-burst co-axial wound field coil which allowed them
to be geared to run twice as fast as the old dynamo designs they
supplanted. The much higher revs at idling speed meant they were able to
produce a useful (though not full) output when the engine was idling.

Also, idiot, and wind turbine (ALL in fact) gear the blade speed up to
drive the alternator at a higher rpm. It would be no problem to convert
blade rotation into a higher rpm shaft drive.

Whilst that is true, the step up gearing introduces undesired
additional transmission loss which gets worse the higher the speed step
up ratio used.

Ideally, an alternator designed to match the direct drive speed should
be chosen where practical. Obviously, for a home built solution, such a
compromise might represent the most pragmatic choice.

 

[Eeyore]

Actually it is VERY easy to double the output of an alternator - just
not in the automotive charging system. A 12 volt 100 anp alternator is
1200 watts. Crank the voltage up to 24 and it is 2400 watts. At 100
volts it is10,000 watts (but might be getting a bit warm) and the belt
would likely be getting ready to smoke.

A 35 amp chrysler alternator from the late sixties to mid 70s could
handle 30 amps at roughly 125 volts for hours on end.

Are you suggesting rewiring the car's electrical system for a new voltage ? I didn't
hear that mentioned in the original post. I'm surprised their rectifiers were that
good to take the reverse voltage, given the normal requirements.

Hours on end is not a statistacally significant period of time for an auto
alternator either.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Where you get that from Asshole? Do you realize Power Output is not measured in AMP but in WATT?

Watts are Amps multiplied by Volts. Without changing the operating voltage the only way to get more power out is to increase the current.

That's one reason trucks use 24V instead of 12V ( nominal ).

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Much as I hate to agree with that troll, you *can* change the operating
voltage of an alternator pretty easily. You don't want to do it while
it's in your car, but it's very easy when removed from your car and
driven by another prime mover.

But you still have to spin it at a couple thousand RPM, so they are
pretty difficult to use with wind turbines (a point that troll keeps
missing).

Youtube has some lovely clips of wind turbines self-destructing when the brake or feather mechanism designed to cope
with high winds fails.

Running at higher rpm may also exceed bearing ratings too, i.e. the alternator life will be drastically shorted. Try
revving your Chevy to 10,000 rpm for comparison !

Graham

 

[PeterD]

Much as I hate to agree with that troll, you *can* change the operating
voltage of an alternator pretty easily.

I didn't mean to imply that that was not possible, but in an
automotive environment, it is not desirable. Changing output voltage
(to a limited extent) can be as simply as implementing the external
voltage sense line found on many alternators, and sticking a diode in
series.

 

[[email protected]]

Are you suggesting rewiring the car's electrical system for a new voltage ? I didn't
hear that mentioned in the original post. I'm surprised their rectifiers were that
good to take the reverse voltage, given the normal requirements.

Hours on end is not a statistacally significant period of time for an auto
alternator either.

Graham

Notice I stated "Actually it is VERY easy to double the output of an
alternator - just not in the automotive charging system".

My dad wired a lot of houses using the alternator on his 6 cyl dodge
van with a B.E.L. converter to run his drill (and often the
carpenter's saws as well). The drill had more power than on mains
because he could crank it up to 125 or 130 volts DC. 8 hour days,
sometimes for weeks on end. Thankfully back then gas was cheap.

 

[[email protected]]

Watts are Amps multiplied by Volts. Without changing the operating voltage the only way to get more power out is to increase the current.

That's one reason trucks use 24V instead of 12V ( nominal ).

Graham

And why cars now run 12 instad of 6 volts.

 

[[email protected]]

The " police special " version of those big cars
had beefy alternators - priced accordingly, at-the-time
John T.

200 amp Leece Neville on some cruisers, taxis and ambulances.- back in
the seventies. THOSE 200 amp units could put out 200 amps all day -
unlike the GM 135 amp units of today - good for about 2 minutes
maximum at full output.

 

[[email protected]]

When voltage is fixed (as an automotive alternator is) then power is
measured in amps, which are directly related to watts. Eeyore is 100%
right, and you're a complete spamming moron.

No, power is NEVER measured in amps. Current is measured in amps.
Power is in Watts, Joules, Calories, BTUs or horsepower. (or volt-amps
or foot-lbs per unit time)