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Ready to buy the Ademco Vista 15P kit

C

Carl Mercier

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

I'm ready to buy and install (I'll install it myself) the Ademco Vista
15P alarm kit for a friend of mine and I have a few questions. Yes!
I'm a newbie (!) but I did my homework... a lot of reading on the web
and on this group.

1. Should I put glass break detectors on every window or simply use 2
motion detectors? I believe 2 would be enough to cover all sensitive
areas of the house. This would obviously be less expensive and a lot
more convenient. There are also 2 doors that would be protected with
door magnetic contacts.

2. I've read that some people are having interference problems with
wireless systems. Has this improved in 2004? The posts I read were
from the 90's. It the problem really THAT bad? Is the Vista 15P a
decent system as a basic house alarm?

3. Is it possible to install a "switch" in the bedroom that would allow
them to fire off the alarm in case they hear somebody break in during
the night (for example), even if the alarm is not engaged at the moment?

4. Smoke detectors... are they worth it or should they stick with their
"regular" smoke detectors?

5. How loud should the siren be, and what's the optimal installation
spot? Outside would be difficult.

6. Any other things I should consider?

Thanks a lot for helping a security system newbie! Your help is very
much appreciated. ;-)

Carl
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Carl said:
Hi,

I'm ready to buy and install (I'll install it myself) the Ademco Vista
15P alarm kit for a friend of mine and I have a few questions. Yes! I'm
a newbie (!) but I did my homework... a lot of reading on the web and on
this group.

1. Should I put glass break detectors on every window or simply use 2
motion detectors? I believe 2 would be enough to cover all sensitive
areas of the house. This would obviously be less expensive and a lot
more convenient. There are also 2 doors that would be protected with
door magnetic contacts.

I would contact all the doors. As far as windows are concerned, keep in
mind that a contact won't tell you if the glass has been broken and a
glass break detector won't tell you if the window has been forced open.

Ideally, you contact the windows and back them up with break detectors
and motions covering the common areas.

As a compromise you protect the living areas with motions detectors and
use contacts and glass break detectors in the sleeping areas.

I wouldn't compromise on contacting all doors though.

2. I've read that some people are having interference problems with
wireless systems. Has this improved in 2004? The posts I read were
from the 90's. It the problem really THAT bad? Is the Vista 15P a
decent system as a basic house alarm?

3. Is it possible to install a "switch" in the bedroom that would allow
them to fire off the alarm in case they hear somebody break in during
the night (for example), even if the alarm is not engaged at the moment?

You can install a panic button like bank tellers use, otherwise,
wireless panics or keyfobs are an option here but I suggest a keypad in
the bedroom. It gives you much more versatility in that when that
bedroom is the only one occupied you can arm the system in the away mode
which brings the motions into play.
4. Smoke detectors... are they worth it or should they stick with their
"regular" smoke detectors?

Wouldn't it be nice if the fire department would come whether or not
someone is home to call them....
5. How loud should the siren be, and what's the optimal installation
spot? Outside would be difficult.

The company I work for has stopped (as a general rule) using external
sirens. An internal siren, centrally located so as to be heard
throughout the house. If you are installing smoke detectors, and not
putting on in each bedroom (which you should really consider) then the
siren may be the only sounder to wake folks up in the event of a fire.
If the house is big enough, don't be afraid to add another siren (I
would use more than two though)
6. Any other things I should consider?

I would encourage you to install wired smoke detectors in every bedroom.
(along with ones outside them) Using a line reversal relay you can
then cause all of them to sound whenever one is tripped. That way, when
there is a fire everyone is roused and off to safety while the alarm
panel takes care of notifying the fire department.

On the same note, carbon monoxide detectors can have the panel calling
for the paramendics even if everyone is overcome - a real life saver.

Also, in case you weren't aware, you can also protect your home from
freezing pipes and combustible gases - though the latter aren't
installed much in these parts.
 
C

Carl Mercier

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe,

Thanks A LOT! Plenty of useful information in there. Really helps!

Thanks to Brian also for replying! Useful info also! :)

Carl
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Important note....
Regarding the sirens ( I just looked over what I wrote.)
I WOULDN'T use more than two sirens.

We install the First Alert version of those panels and they don't
support more than two sirens with predictable results. If you have a
bunch of powered devices it only adds more difficulties.

Stick to one if you can get away with it and in most homes you can.
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
Important note....
Regarding the sirens ( I just looked over what I wrote.)
I WOULDN'T use more than two sirens.

We install the First Alert version of those panels and they don't
support more than two sirens with predictable results. If you have a
bunch of powered devices it only adds more difficulties.

Stick to one if you can get away with it and in most homes you can.

Or add a relay and power supply
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I WOULDN'T use more than two sirens....

If you use a siren driver and horns instead of stand-alone sirens you can
easily handle up to four separate "sirens" (speakers, really). Whether you
would want or need four is another matter, of course. On large homes we
routinely used two or three interior speakers and one exterior horn. By
using a series-parallel circuit you can accomplish this without over loading
the siren driver. Total sound output will be approximately the same as with
two efficient speakers but sound distribution may be improved.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Brian said:
I just bought and installed the Vista 20PS in my house. I'm pleased with
it - aside from the 6270 keypad. I am also a "newbie".



Secure the perimeter first, and use motion detectors only as secondary
security, in my opinion. There are experts here, however, that can give
you
far better advice than I can. The wireless Ademco glass break sensors are
acoustic, so they aren't fixed to the windows themselves. They are placed
within 25 feet of the windows you want covered, and therefore can cover
many
windows within a 25' radius.


The most important thing is to consider the window coverings. It's
definitely worthwhile *testing* the units using the method recommended by
the manufacturer (this may involve *buying* their tester - or "borrowing"
one from a freindly installer). Don't assume that because the instructions
say "25'", that it *is* 25'.


My Ademco 5883 is what I'd call "sensitive". I've had to turn RF Jam
detection off, because it falsly triggers on occasion. I have had no
other
problems.


Look into wireless keyfobs. I think they have a panic button.


Depends. Do you just want to be alerted of a fire, or do you want the
fire
station to be immediately alerted as well?


"Regular" smoke alarms also have the drawback of shutting down when there's
a power failure. If you can, go with system supervised smoke alarms
(preferably photo-electrics).

Loud enough to wake you up through the wall so you can get your shotgun
and
go see what's happening, IMO. I have the Ademco Wave2 horn inside, and it
is PLENTY loud. I also have a second horn in the attic near a vent. It
can
be heard outside easily. Studies also show that loud noise will usually
cause an intruder to turn around and get out.


"Usually"... right... :))


--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
You can read the ASA FAQ at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com/asafaq.htm
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't think in 25 years of installing systems
I've ever had to put more than two sirens on
a home system -and my largest sq ft house
I've done was 12,000 sq ft.

Everyone has his own way of doing these things. No one particular method is
best for all situations.

That depends to some extent on the type of protection you are providing. If
you include smoke detectors you need an audible within hearing range of
every bedroom. Many homes in Florida as well as New England where I
installed systems for more than 20 years have what's called a "split plan."
That is, the master bedroom suite is separate from the rest of the bedrooms.
I like to use flush mount speakers for internal sounders. They're not as
loud as the large klaxons we use on the outside of the house. I place one
outside the master bedroom and one in the guest suite hallway. A third
siren is placed outside, under the eaves near the peak of the roof or in the
attic facing out through a louver if there is one.
Regarding the sirens ( I just looked over what
I wrote.) I WOULDN'T use more than two sirens.
We install the First Alert version of those panels
and they don't support more than two sirens with
predictable results.

Never having installed First Alert, I assume you're correct about that but
have you ever considered using multiple horns with a separate siren driver?
That's my approach partly because it's more efficient (usually less current
draw) and partly because I prefer not to install the siren's electronic
circuit in hot attics.
If you have a bunch of powered devices it only
adds more difficulties.

It's wise to calculate the load on the power supply, with and without the
siren(s) running. That can save you a few headaches.
Stick to one if you can get away with it and
in most homes you can.

Again, the "right" choice depends on the home's layout and the system being
used. In many small homes you'd be fine with only one siren. If you want
to alert the neighbors, scare the heck out of the perpetrator, etc., you
might want more.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
Everyone has his own way of doing these things. No one particular method is
best for all situations.

That depends to some extent on the type of protection you are providing. If
you include smoke detectors you need an audible within hearing range of
every bedroom. Many homes in Florida as well as New England where I
installed systems for more than 20 years have what's called a "split plan."
That is, the master bedroom suite is separate from the rest of the bedrooms.
I like to use flush mount speakers for internal sounders. They're not as
loud as the large klaxons we use on the outside of the house. I place one
outside the master bedroom and one in the guest suite hallway. A third
siren is placed outside, under the eaves near the peak of the roof or in the
attic facing out through a louver if there is one.




Never having installed First Alert, I assume you're correct about that but
have you ever considered using multiple horns with a separate siren driver?
That's my approach partly because it's more efficient (usually less current
draw) and partly because I prefer not to install the siren's electronic
circuit in hot attics.




It's wise to calculate the load on the power supply, with and without the
siren(s) running. That can save you a few headaches.




Again, the "right" choice depends on the home's layout and the system being
used. In many small homes you'd be fine with only one siren. If you want
to alert the neighbors, scare the heck out of the perpetrator, etc., you
might want more.

You may notice I recommended a wired smoke in each bedroom... In this
area, in order to meet code that would mean they are all audibles
utilizing line reversal.

Between the siren down the hall and the smoke over the bed I think that
is enough to wake most folks.

Pretty much any noise is likely to startle a perp considering most of
the time it will be pretty quiet right up until the alarm is tripped.
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
You may notice I recommended a wired smoke
in each bedroom... In this area, in order to
meet code that would mean they are all audibles utilizing line reversal.

That works just fine and adds redundancy.
Between the siren down the hall and the smoke
over the bed I think that is enough to wake most
folks.
Yup.

Pretty much any noise is likely to startle a perp
considering most of the time it will be pretty
quiet right up until the alarm is tripped.

Startle, yes. Scare away, maybe. IMO, if you really want to scare them off
put in an extremely loud, exterior siren -- something with multiple tones
and/or voice.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
We only install monitored systems so all an
outside siren does is piss-off the neighbors -
who won't do anything anyway (except call
the cops the next day to complain about the
noise :)

I disagree. A loud exterior siren makes the perp wonder if someone may be
taking note of his actions, perhaps writing down the description and tag
number of his car or whatever.

Occasionally an outside siren can trigger unexpected ...er, blessings.
Several years ago in Wethersfield, CT a guy broke into a home we protected,
tripping the inside and outside sirens. He tried to leave in a hurry but
was confronted by an irate neighbor. This particular neighbor happened to
be an enormous man. He looks like a line backer. Instead of running off
the idiot ran back inside the house. The police showed up a few minutes
later and arrested him. It turned out the guy was wanted for questioning in
a series of rapes in nearby Farmington.

Another reason for a loud exterior siren is that some thieves like to cut
telephone wires. If the system doesn't provide RF backup and the line is
cut that outside siren becomes the last line of defense.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
a client just had me install one of those
barking sirens...he just HAD to have it...

I'v seen ads for those in magazines but never met anyone who actually baught
one.
the freeking thing sounded like a drunken
chicken trying to bark! ...

I can imagine how a drunken chicken' bark would sound.
"Buk-buk-buk-RRrrrrroowwwf!" :^)
good thing it also had other programmable
sounds...my installer and I laughed all day.

Test drive a Napco MVA1000 siren driver sometime. It plays the standard
yelp and wail tones for burglary and fire. After a few seconds it switches
back and forth between siren and a deep, male voice shouting "Burglary!
Burglary!" etc. The description may sound hoaky but it's really an
effective driver.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

| > You may notice I recommended a wired smoke
| > in each bedroom... In this area, in order to
| > meet code that would mean they are all audibles utilizing line reversal.
|
| That works just fine and adds redundancy.
|
| > Between the siren down the hall and the smoke
| > over the bed I think that is enough to wake most
| > folks.
|
| Yup.
|
| > Pretty much any noise is likely to startle a perp
| > considering most of the time it will be pretty
| > quiet right up until the alarm is tripped.
|
| Startle, yes. Scare away, maybe. IMO, if you really want to scare them
off
| put in an extremely loud, exterior siren -- something with multiple tones
| and/or voice.
|
| --
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
|
| =============================>
| Bass Home Electronics
| 2291 Pine View Circle
| Sarasota · Florida · 34231
| 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
| http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
| =============================>
|
|
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
...never met anyone who actually _baught_ one.

I must be tired tonight. That wasn't even a typo. :^)
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Bass said:
I must be tired tonight. That wasn't even a typo. :^)


Check your mirror. If the red light on your forehead is "on", it's time to
change the pacemaker battery. :^)
 
A

Allan Waghalter

Jan 1, 1970
0
If it sounded like a drunken chicken, I suspect your panel isn't providing
enough current to operate it correctly. Try putting the leads directly on
the battery and see how it sounds. Down here, we cook drunken chickens and
call it "Bourbon Chicken."
Allan

a client just had me install one of those barking sirens...he just HAD to
have it...the freeking thing sounded like a drunken chicken trying to bark!
.... good thing it also had other programmable sounds...my installer and I
laughed all day.


| > You may notice I recommended a wired smoke
| > in each bedroom... In this area, in order to
| > meet code that would mean they are all audibles utilizing line reversal.
|
| That works just fine and adds redundancy.
|
| > Between the siren down the hall and the smoke
| > over the bed I think that is enough to wake most
| > folks.
|
| Yup.
|
| > Pretty much any noise is likely to startle a perp
| > considering most of the time it will be pretty
| > quiet right up until the alarm is tripped.
|
| Startle, yes. Scare away, maybe. IMO, if you really want to scare them
off
| put in an extremely loud, exterior siren -- something with multiple tones
| and/or voice.
|
| --
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
|
| =============================>
| Bass Home Electronics
| 2291 Pine View Circle
| Sarasota · Florida · 34231
| 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
| http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
| =============================>
|
|
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm with you brother....

We only have one salesman here who ever sells outside... sometimes
without any inside siren...
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
If it sounded like a drunken chicken, I suspect your panel isn't providing
enough current to operate it correctly. Try putting the leads directly on
the battery and see how it sounds. Down here, we cook drunken chickens
and call it "Bourbon Chicken."

Hi Allan,

The question is who gets drunk first -- the chicken or the cook? :^)
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Wasn't there a incident in Florida a few years
back where a guy's alarm went off (the owners
were out of town), the neighbor went to check
the house because they heard the siren and he
stumbled into the perp. and got kilt.

Could be. There are millions of alarms in Florida. I suppose it's possible
that somewhere, sometime, some thief killed some neighbor, but I don't
recall hearing about it.
Personally, I don't want anyone responding to
alarm activation except the authorities that have
guns, and they aren't gonna hear the outside
siren unless they're standing on the corner eating
donuts.

I didn't advocate having the neighbor *respond* to an alarm. In this
particular case a neighbor did just that. The real reason for a loud alarm
is it intimidates the thief. Almost anything that will cause the perp to
leave quickly is a good thing IMO.
These days most neighbors don't even know
each other, let alone care that the guy down
the block's house is being burgled.

True in many places. Not so in others. In my neighborhood everyone knows
each other. When we have parties, neighbors often come over and join the
fun. Each Christmas eve about fifty of us go carolling together.
Thanksgiving morning there's a pie party across the street from us. It was
really strange moving here from CT a few years ago. There we barely knew
the neighbors. Here everyone stops to say hello and people tend to look out
for each other. That said, I do NOT want my neighbor to come over if the
burglar alarm rings. I DO want the thief to worry that someone may be
looking so I like using a loud alarm. YMMV.
Of course we do whatever the client wants...and
it may be just a regional thing, but out here I'm
guessing; 7 out of 10 *monitored* systems do
not have exterior sirens.

That may very well be a regional difference. In CT virtually all the
quality firms installed exterior sirens of one sort or another. The only
ones that usually didn't were a few ADT "authorized dealers" and
fly-by-nights like Milford. Whatever approach you choose, as long as your
clients understand and agree to what they're getting and your reasoning for
making the choice, no one can fault you.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
I can't remember which driver I used...it was
recent...maybe it was the Napco...

I doubt it was Napco. Theirs doesn't do poultry.
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
alt.security.alarms
That may very well be a regional difference. In CT virtually all the
quality firms installed exterior sirens of one sort or another. The only
ones that usually didn't were a few ADT "authorized dealers" and
fly-by-nights like Milford. Whatever approach you choose, as long as your
clients understand and agree to what they're getting and your reasoning for
making the choice, no one can fault you.


I was wondering how long it would be before your venom glands recharged.
 
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