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### Network # remember a formula

J

#### js5895

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

I'm studying electrical, what's the best way to remember the P.I.R.E.
wheel.

Thanks.

L

#### Lord Garth

Jan 1, 1970
0
js5895 said:
Hi,

I'm studying electrical, what's the best way to remember the P.I.R.E.
wheel.

Learn just one formula such as V=IR and rearrange terms mathematically
as needed. No escaping the math if you want this field.

R

#### Roger Johansson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Learn just one formula such as V=IR and rearrange terms mathematically
as needed. No escaping the math if you want this field.

Pedantic mode on. You have to learn _two_ equations, actually.

V=I*R (Volt=Amp*Ohm)
P=U*I (Watt=Volt*Amp)

Then learn how to re-arrange these equations as needed for the problem
at hand, and use a calculator to get the result.

The art of re-arranging equations is called algebra, and you need some
basic knowledge and experience in this.

An alternative is to use a visual diagram like the ones I have put on a
web site

http://humanist.250free.com/

Click on the two .jpg files at the bottom of the list, save them to
hard disk. Can be distributed freely.

J

#### John Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roger Johansson said:
Pedantic mode on. You have to learn _two_ equations, actually.

V=I*R (Volt=Amp*Ohm)
P=U*I (Watt=Volt*Amp)

Then learn how to re-arrange these equations as needed for the problem
at hand, and use a calculator to get the result.

The art of re-arranging equations is called algebra, and you need some
basic knowledge and experience in this.

An alternative is to use a visual diagram like the ones I have put on a
web site

http://humanist.250free.com/

Click on the two .jpg files at the bottom of the list, save them to
hard disk. Can be distributed freely.

If you going to learn P=VI rather learn P=VIcos(Phi) where Phi is the phase
between V and I.

T

#### Tom Biasi

Jan 1, 1970
0
js5895 said:
Hi,

I'm studying electrical, what's the best way to remember the P.I.R.E.
wheel.

Thanks.

Hi,
You are asking for a method to' remember' something and you are being given
answers on how to' learn' something.
I would suggest that you take the advice that says 'learn' algebra. If you
learn the relationship that is generically referred to as "Ohm's Law" and
learn the algebra to solve for all variables you will be in far better shape
when the formulae get more complicated.
Regards,
Tom

B

#### BobG

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can someone sum up the top couple of rules of algebra for him? How
about something like: 'An equation has an expression on each side of
the equal sign. To solve the equation for any of the variables, you
need to get that variable over to the left side of the equal sign. To
eliminate a variable on one side, multiply both sides of the equation
by the inverse of that variable. This doesnt change the equality,
because you are multiplying both sides by the same number.' Is this the
necessary and sufficient information needed to solve ohms law for 3
variables?

P

#### Peter Bennett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can someone sum up the top couple of rules of algebra for him? How
about something like: 'An equation has an expression on each side of
the equal sign. To solve the equation for any of the variables, you
need to get that variable over to the left side of the equal sign. To
eliminate a variable on one side, multiply both sides of the equation
by the inverse of that variable. This doesnt change the equality,
because you are multiplying both sides by the same number.' Is this the
necessary and sufficient information needed to solve ohms law for 3
variables?

I use three rules:

1. If you do something on one side of the equal sign, you must do the
same thing on the other.

2. Anything divided by itself equals 1.

3. Anything multiplied by 1 is unchanged, so the "1" can be discarded.

I've been working in electronics for some 40 years, and have no idea
what the "P.I.R.E. wheel" is - I just remember E = IR and P=EI, and
shuffle things around as needed. The same "shuffling" rules apply to
any simple equation.

L

#### Lord Garth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Peter Bennett said:
I use three rules:

1. If you do something on one side of the equal sign, you must do the
same thing on the other.

2. Anything divided by itself equals 1.

3. Anything multiplied by 1 is unchanged, so the "1" can be discarded.

I've been working in electronics for some 40 years, and have no idea
what the "P.I.R.E. wheel" is - I just remember E = IR and P=EI, and
shuffle things around as needed. The same "shuffling" rules apply to
any simple equation.

Exactly! And like most technical people, I don't give a rats ass about
being PC with the resistor color code mnemonic.

R

#### Roger Johansson

Jan 1, 1970
0
BobG said:
Can someone sum up the top couple of rules of algebra for him? How
about something like: 'An equation has an expression on each side of
the equal sign. To solve the equation for any of the variables, you
need to get that variable over to the left side of the equal sign. To
eliminate a variable on one side, multiply both sides of the equation
by the inverse of that variable. This doesnt change the equality,
because you are multiplying both sides by the same number.' Is this
the necessary and sufficient information needed to solve ohms law for
3 variables?

I can add some to your text above.

You can do anything to an equation as long as you do it to both sides
equally, the equation is still valid.
(an exception is dividing by zero, which gives meaningless results)

The methods you can use to isolate one variable on one side are
addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, inverting, squaring,
square root, substitution, etc..

Somebody who does not know these methods should take some time to learn
basic algebra, especially equation solving.

R

#### Roger Johansson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Peter said:
I've been working in electronics for some 40 years, and have no idea
what the "P.I.R.E. wheel" is - I just remember E = IR and P=EI, and
shuffle things around as needed. The same "shuffling" rules apply to
any simple equation.

Here is such a wheel, if you are curious.

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp

Here is a lesson in simple equation solving algebra

http://www.algebrahelp.com/lessons/equationbasics/index.htm

An online equation solver, for really lazy people http://www.algebrahelp.com/calculators/equation/calc.jsp

It is incredible how much stuff you can find on the web today, you only
need to put together the right search words.

More advanced lessons in algebra. Ask dr Math!

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57620.html

http://www.ifigure.com/math/algebra/algebra.htm

J

#### js5895

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks, I know basic high school algebra, but I just never understood
how to apply it to real world problems. I keep reading my electrical
book on that it says "Current is directly proportional to voltage" and
"Current is inversely proportional to resistance" and then I look at
the
P.I.R.E. wheel, trying to remember the whole wheel just by remembering
those statements and some algebra. I'm looking at it like a puzzle and
noticing some patterns like, that the power formulas you have to square
or square root to find an answer, so I can see that proportional and
inversely proportional part. I'm trying to figure out how they got
something like this "I = E/R" from that statement, looking at that
formula, thinking "I" is proportional to "E" and "I" is inversely
proportional "R", and I'm thinking why did they divide?. I'm racking my
mind and I know this is a simple basic DC formula compared to other
electrical formulas like, the AC ones.

J

#### John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
js5895 said:
Thanks, I know basic high school algebra, but I just never understood
how to apply it to real world problems. I keep reading my electrical
book on that it says "Current is directly proportional to voltage" and
"Current is inversely proportional to resistance" and then I look at
the

Another definitions of "ohms" is volts per ampere. So, for any fixed
resistance, the ratio of volts divided by amperes (volts per ampere)
equals the value of the resistance. So resistance is the constant of
proportionality that relates volts to amperes. 100 ohms means that
the voltage is always 100 times the amperes.
P.I.R.E. wheel, trying to remember the whole wheel just by remembering
those statements and some algebra. I'm looking at it like a puzzle and
noticing some patterns like, that the power formulas you have to square
or square root to find an answer, so I can see that proportional and
inversely proportional part. I'm trying to figure out how they got
something like this "I = E/R" from that statement, looking at that
formula, thinking "I" is proportional to "E" and "I" is inversely
proportional "R", and I'm thinking why did they divide?. I'm racking my
mind and I know this is a simple basic DC formula compared to other
electrical formulas like, the AC ones.

The basic definition of resistance R=E/I (ohms equals volts per
ampere) can be rearranged to I=E/R or E=I*R.

The second basic formula on those wheels is P=E*I. But you can
substitute I*R for E (from the above rearrangement of R=E/I) to get
P=I*I*R or substitute E/R for I to get P=E*E/R

That is all there is on that wheel.

L

#### Lord Garth

Jan 1, 1970
0
js5895 said:
Thanks, I know basic high school algebra, but I just never understood
how to apply it to real world problems. I keep reading my electrical
book on that it says "Current is directly proportional to voltage" and
"Current is inversely proportional to resistance" and then I look at
the
P.I.R.E. wheel, trying to remember the whole wheel just by remembering
those statements and some algebra. I'm looking at it like a puzzle and
noticing some patterns like, that the power formulas you have to square
or square root to find an answer, so I can see that proportional and
inversely proportional part. I'm trying to figure out how they got
something like this "I = E/R" from that statement, looking at that
formula, thinking "I" is proportional to "E" and "I" is inversely
proportional "R", and I'm thinking why did they divide?. I'm racking my
mind and I know this is a simple basic DC formula compared to other
electrical formulas like, the AC ones.

The term "inverse" means 1/whatever just as the term "per" means "for
every".
When someone says "percent" they mean "for every 100". One cent is 1 of
100.
As some smart man has said, "Words have meanings". Now if he could only
pronounce "nuclear" properly.

A

#### Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
I can add some to your text above.

You can do anything to an equation as long as you do it to both sides
equally, the equation is still valid.
(an exception is dividing by zero, which gives meaningless results)

The methods you can use to isolate one variable on one side are
addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, inverting, squaring,
square root, substitution, etc..

Somebody who does not know these methods should take some time to learn
basic algebra, especially equation solving.

And it's so cheap to do these days.

http://www.sosmath.cfom

A

#### Active8

Jan 1, 1970
0
An online equation solver, for really lazy people Not to mention very patient or willing to accept no answer at all.

solve x^3 - x^2 -y = 0 for x R

#### Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks, I know basic high school algebra, but I just never understood how
to apply it to real world problems. I keep reading my electrical book on
that it says "Current is directly proportional to voltage" and "Current is
inversely proportional to resistance" and then I look at the
P.I.R.E. wheel, trying to remember the whole wheel just by remembering
those statements and some algebra. I'm looking at it like a puzzle and
noticing some patterns like, that the power formulas you have to square or
square root to find an answer, so I can see that proportional and
inversely proportional part. I'm trying to figure out how they got
something like this "I = E/R" from that statement, looking at that
formula, thinking "I" is proportional to "E" and "I" is inversely
proportional "R", and I'm thinking why did they divide?. I'm racking my
mind and I know this is a simple basic DC formula compared to other
electrical formulas like, the AC ones.

At this point, it might help to look at the water pipe model. Voltage,
or "electromotive force" is pressure, current is the flow rate, and
resistance is how hard you have to push to get the water to go through
the pipe. A skinny pipe has more resistance than a fat one.

The model breaks down when the pipe breaks, and all of your water
falls out on the ground - that's the opposite of what happens with
a broken wire; short circuit to "ground" would have that effect. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

W

#### Wayne Farmer

Jan 1, 1970
0
js5895 said:
Hi,

I'm studying electrical, what's the best way to remember the P.I.R.E.
wheel.

Here's a non-algebra method of deriving the 12 equations of the P.I.R.E
wheel from just 2 "triangle" diagrams. So, if you can remember the two
triangle diagrams, you can quickly come up with the whole wheel.

First, there's the P = IE triangle:

P
------
I | E

By covering up either P, I, or E with your finger, what remains will remind
you of the formula for what you covered up:

P (covered) = I * E
I (covered) = P / E
E (covered) = P / I

For the remaining 9 formulas of the wheel, start with the E = IR triangle:

E
-----
I | R

By covering up either E, I, or R with your finger, what remains will remind
you of the formula for what you covered up:

E (covered) = I * R
I (covered) = E / R
R (covered) = E / I

Now take the same E = IR triangle, and multiply both the top and left side
by I. You now get:

E * I
-----------
I * I | R

Because P = E * I (from the first triangle), and I * I = I^2 (that is, I
squared), you can rewrite this as:

P
---------
I^2 | R

By covering up either P, I^2, or R with your finger, what remains will
remind you of the formula for what you covered up:

P (covered ) = I^2 * R
I^2 (covered) = P / R, so I = square root of (P / R)
R (covered) = P / I^2

Now go back to the E = IR triangle, but this time multiply both the top and
left side by E. This time you get:

E*E
---------
E*I | R

This is the same as:

E^2
----------
P | R

By covering up either E^2, P, or R with your finger, what remains will
remind you of the formula for what you covered up:

E^2 (covered) = P * R, so E = square root of (P * R)
P (covered) = E^2 / R
R (covered) = E^2 / P

You've now developed all 12 equations of the P.I.R.E. wheel.

--- Wayne

P

#### phaeton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lord Garth said:
No escaping the math if you want this field.

Perhaps i'm nuts to even attempt to fiddle with electronics, because my
math skills are not so great. I'm 10 years out of HS, and at the time
i programmed my computer to do my homework for me :-(

Yeah i know that was stupid. I'm paying for it now.

Re-teaching myself Algebra is obviously a requirement, but will I need
to teach myself anything like Calculus? Trigonometry?

I know that "electronics" is vague, and different parts of it have
different skill requirements, so take in mind that i'm mainly
interested in the musical instrument amplification/effects end of audio
equipment. Logic gates and processing signals like that isn't so
exciting for me (at least not now)- programming in C has kinda burned
me out of that sort of thing... I always consider night classes at the local community college but i'm
always afraid i'd bomb out of any placement tests and have to start
math courses from the 7th grade or something. (Which if that's the
case, then the test worked, and it is pointing me in the right
direction and telling me exactly what I need to do).

Although, playing around with some algebra equations i've dug up
online, i'm surprising myself on some of the things i *do* remember....

Thanks for any suggestions, even if they're wrong P

-phaeton,
Smoking Si since 1994

R

#### Roger Johansson

Jan 1, 1970
0
phaeton said:
Re-teaching myself Algebra is obviously a requirement, but will I need
to teach myself anything like Calculus? Trigonometry?

You can find a lot of help on the web.

I used the search words
free algebra lesson
and found a lot of free resources.

This lesson in basic algebra, for example:
http://www.mathleague.com/help/algebra/algebra.htm

You can probably find useful books in your local library too.

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