Requesting help from EAGLE PCB users

[Richard H.]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for replying. I'm waiting to hear back from 4 companies at the
moment to see what they come up with. They have the .brd and the images
below.

To save further debate, here's my original PCBs;
http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest_top.jpg and
http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest_bot.jpg . The fresh .brd is now
here; http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest.brd

Truth is I haven't the faintest idea what the specs are for those boards in
PCB terms. They're about 25mm x 30mm, and I'm guessing with soldermask, and
top silkscreen.

What I'm really trying to do is to get as many for as little ££ as possible.
I guess the silkscreen (lettering) could go, not important. We were paying
about £80 for about 100 of those boards in 2 weeks or so. I've put this to
the 4 companies I've emailed.

It'd be great if anyone could tell me what the specs of these boards are.
Sorry to be a thick on this, this is a learning curve.

Thanks,

Aly

 

[Frank Bemelman]

I've just been quoted £300 for 100 boards, what a bloody rip-off!! We were
paying £80 before.

Guessing it is 25x45mm, a hundred double sided board cost
142.21 euro, excl. 21% VAT, incl. shipping to the UK. That
is roughly 100 pounds. Soldermask and one silkscreen included.

This is at www.eurocircuits.com
Check their online price calculator.
Quality is excellent.

 

[Richard H.]

[Re-trying this post, this time with the content...]

What I'm really trying to do is to get as many for as little ££ as possible.
I guess the silkscreen (lettering) could go, not important. We were paying
about £80 for about 100 of those boards in 2 weeks or so. I've put this to
the 4 companies I've emailed.

Aly,

A few things stand out here...

* If you were having them made for a good price, is there a reason you
can't go back there? (I'd be interested in knowing where this was...)

* Limiting yourself to shops that only accept Eagle .brd files will
drive your prices up. Learn how to handle Gerber output and anyone can
process your job, which means you can find cheaper options.

* RoHS will drive the prices up now, and it's non-optional for saleable
products. (Have you thought about how you'll solder these now?)

* Switching to a different 9-pin connector with through-hole pins could
let you switch to a single-sided PCB. The connector price will change,
maybe too much; the board would be cheaper as you'd only need copper,
solder mask, and silkscreen on one side.

* A larger project, but... it looks like you're using less than half the
pins on the PIC. A simpler version (or at least the surface-mount
package) would let you shrink your board size a little, reducing that
cost. A surface-mount PIC might be cheaper (and would require only
layout change); likewise for a simpler PIC if it applies, You'll need
to weigh if it makes your assembly costs go up. A different PIC would
require at least a re-build of the code, but likely not a wholesale
re-write.

* Do you like soldering these PCBs individually? Assembly might be
easier if you had them made in panels / arrays that break apart. It's
called v-scoring. Harder to find in proto shops for a low cost, but
there are some.

* Check out http://www.futurlec.com. They're based in Australia and
front a manufacturer in Thailand. They could do your boards with
v-scoring or cut apart for US$0.65 each at that size, plus about $51
setup charge (Setup as low as $15 with no mask or silkscreen). You have
to ask for v-scoring instead of cut-apart, but there's no extra fee. (!)

You'll have to ask if they do RoHS finishes instead of HASL (solder).
I've been very happy with their work down to 10-mil traces, though their
accuracy on v-scoring is moderate, so allow about 60 mils between boards
for the cut (which is less than the typical 100-mil route plus 20-mil
spacing).

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Paul Carpenter]

On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>

....

Hi Paul,

Thanks for replying. I'm waiting to hear back from 4 companies at the
moment to see what they come up with. They have the .brd and the images
below.

To save further debate, here's my original PCBs;
http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest_top.jpg and
http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest_bot.jpg . The fresh .brd is now
here; http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest.brd

Truth is I haven't the faintest idea what the specs are for those boards in
PCB terms. They're about 25mm x 30mm, and I'm guessing with soldermask, and
top silkscreen.

From the board file the board is 23 x 33mm, other assumptions correct.
However remember because you have surface mount and plate through components
you have TWO different solder masks (one for each side). The solder mask is
what gives the board the green colour.

What I'm really trying to do is to get as many for as little ?? as possible.
I guess the silkscreen (lettering) could go, not important. We were paying
about ?80 for about 100 of those boards in 2 weeks or so. I've put this to
the 4 companies I've emailed.

Well I did a quick check on <http://www.pcbpool.com/> and min order qty
with panelling up they would supply 13 boards per panel 1dm2.

Ordering as Double sided prototype quantities, with NO solder mask, and
just ident and 13 boards to a panel. A quick quote of 8 panels (8 * 13 =
104 boards), and post shipping on EIGHT days turnaround is 69.93 Euros
(or 48.43 pounds)!!! Less than before, but that price can be juggled by

Solder mask both sides (different) Add 34 Euros

Ident removal top Subtract 17 Euros

Basically Ident or solder mask cost 17 Euros per side in tooling.

For what your board is I would consider both sides solder mask for assembly
process as you have tracks between pins, and top side ident so add 34 Euros
to give

103.93 Euros or 71.94 pounds for 104 boards

slightly cheaper than what you had before.

Give them your VAT number and you then remove the Irish VAT rate of 21%
from that and gives a total of

85.89 Euros or 59.46 pounds for 104 boards

That is a LOT cheaper than what you had before and straight from an Eagle
file you transmit electronically.

If you want faster turnaround then you pay more.

It'd be great if anyone could tell me what the specs of these boards are.
Sorry to be a thick on this, this is a learning curve.

Bog standard double sided stock that most people use by the look of it.

As at least one other person has said if the chip was surface mount variety
and the pins could be swapped around (different port pins used) this could
be a single layer PCB. Less copper is less cost.

Personally the board could do with tidying, but is manufacturable.

 

[techie_alison]

From the board file the board is 23 x 33mm, other assumptions correct.
However remember because you have surface mount and plate through components
you have TWO different solder masks (one for each side). The solder mask is
what gives the board the green colour.


Well I did a quick check on <http://www.pcbpool.com/> and min order qty
with panelling up they would supply 13 boards per panel 1dm2.

Ordering as Double sided prototype quantities, with NO solder mask, and
just ident and 13 boards to a panel. A quick quote of 8 panels (8 * 13 =
104 boards), and post shipping on EIGHT days turnaround is 69.93 Euros
(or 48.43 pounds)!!! Less than before, but that price can be juggled by

Solder mask both sides (different) Add 34 Euros

Ident removal top Subtract 17 Euros

Basically Ident or solder mask cost 17 Euros per side in tooling.

For what your board is I would consider both sides solder mask for assembly
process as you have tracks between pins, and top side ident so add 34 Euros
to give

103.93 Euros or 71.94 pounds for 104 boards

slightly cheaper than what you had before.

Give them your VAT number and you then remove the Irish VAT rate of 21%
from that and gives a total of

85.89 Euros or 59.46 pounds for 104 boards

That is a LOT cheaper than what you had before and straight from an Eagle
file you transmit electronically.

If you want faster turnaround then you pay more.


Bog standard double sided stock that most people use by the look of it.

As at least one other person has said if the chip was surface mount variety
and the pins could be swapped around (different port pins used) this could
be a single layer PCB. Less copper is less cost.

Personally the board could do with tidying, but is manufacturable.

--
Paul Carpenter | [email protected]
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 & mailing list info
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

Wow Paul, I think I love you Not quite appropriate on here but hey I'm
happy, these figures are brilliant. Best quote I managed today was £160 or
so.

Will get back into this over the next few days as in hospital on Thursday
and planning to nail this on the head while I recover.

Thanks, will read this properly tomorrow, will likely start a new thread on
it.

Aly

 

[Paul Carpenter]

On Wednesday, in article
<[email protected]>

......

Wow Paul, I think I love you Not quite appropriate on here but hey I'm
happy, these figures are brilliant. Best quote I managed today was ?160 or
so.

That's the best 'payment' I have had for advice, even in a newsgroup :-^

Will get back into this over the next few days as in hospital on Thursday
and planning to nail this on the head while I recover.

Thanks, will read this properly tomorrow, will likely start a new thread on
it.

Get Hospital over first! Then nail this.

I am sure plenty of people will help out, if you have any further questions.