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"RJ45" crimp connector flavors

D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

I've asked this in several places (possibly even here,
previously) and still haven't received a good answer...

RJ45 (8P8C) connectors come in a variety of styles, chiefly
cable type (flat vs round) and conductor type (solid vs
stranded).

The former distinction is relatively easy to recognize. But,
the latter doesn't seem to be consistently recognizable!
(yes, I've seen the Wikipedia page).

Almost all of the connectors that I have *appear* (see above)
to be for stranded wire -- despite coming out of bags marked
"for solid wire"!

OK, it's possible that the bags got mismarked at the factory
(though I have examples of such from different vendors!).
But, I wonder if it isn't just a "manufacturing economy"?
I.e., if one type (e.g., stranded) worked equally well for
the *other* type (e.g., solid), then I could see manufacturers
making a single product (perhaps a *hybrid*) and packaging it
as *both*!

At least, that's the only reasonable explanation I can find
for these observations...

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or, *definitive* criteria
that I can use to examine the IDC contacts of each connector
for some subtle clues?? (I imagine I can dissolve the plastic
body if necessary to ensure full access to an unmolested
"pin")

Thx,
--don
 
B

Baron

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Don,

Don said:
Hi,

I've asked this in several places (possibly even here,
previously) and still haven't received a good answer...

RJ45 (8P8C) connectors come in a variety of styles, chiefly
cable type (flat vs round) and conductor type (solid vs
stranded).

The former distinction is relatively easy to recognize. But,
the latter doesn't seem to be consistently recognizable!
(yes, I've seen the Wikipedia page).

Almost all of the connectors that I have *appear* (see above)
to be for stranded wire -- despite coming out of bags marked
"for solid wire"!

OK, it's possible that the bags got mismarked at the factory
(though I have examples of such from different vendors!).
But, I wonder if it isn't just a "manufacturing economy"?
I.e., if one type (e.g., stranded) worked equally well for
the *other* type (e.g., solid), then I could see manufacturers
making a single product (perhaps a *hybrid*) and packaging it
as *both*!

At least, that's the only reasonable explanation I can find
for these observations...

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or, *definitive* criteria
that I can use to examine the IDC contacts of each connector
for some subtle clues?? (I imagine I can dissolve the plastic
body if necessary to ensure full access to an unmolested
"pin")

Thx,
--don

The contacts can be pulled out of the connector to be examined. If you
look at the teeth on one type there are three barbs slightly offset
from the centre line, on the other there are only two barbs that are in
line. I belive one type can be used on both soild and stranded cables
the other only on stranded. As far as I am aware these are the only
variations between the two.

YMMV.

Regards:
Baron.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Baron,

The contacts can be pulled out of the connector to be examined.

Really? Man, you've got *much* better eyes than *I*! I can't
even see what to grab *onto*! :<

OK, I'll believe you and drag one under the stereoscope and see
if I can figure out how to coax it out of the plastic (I know
it can be pushed *into* the plastic body further than it's
"rest" position -- by the crimping action)
If you
look at the teeth on one type there are three barbs slightly offset
from the centre line, on the other there are only two barbs that are in
line. I belive one type can be used on both soild and stranded cables
the other only on stranded.

So, presumably, the ones I *appear* to have (I am assuming that,
on closer inspection, they will prove to be *truly* identical
and not hiding some detail that is not apparent to the unaided eye)
would be the ones that work with both types?
As far as I am aware these are the only
variations between the two.

OK. I will have to check. Looking at them "side on" doesn't
shed much insight on what they are really like. (e.g., hard
to tell if there are two -- or more -- barbs and whether they
are inline or staggered.)

[Perhaps I can find a detailed mechanical drawing at somebody's
manufacturer web site...]

Thx!
--don
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jeff,

[Perhaps I can find a detailed mechanical drawing at somebody's
manufacturer web site...]

3rd image down.
<https://www.brucetambling.com/wiki/Studio1100:Cat_5>

Ah! This contradicts (to an extent) the description on the
Wikipedia page I mentioned. E.g., the connectors I have appear
to be the leftmost in the photo claiming to be "solid or stranded".
Note the Wikipedia page suggests this is "stranded" (only).
<http://marismas-emtt.blogspot.com/2011/11/pues-resulta-que-estabamos-en-clase.html>

Hint #1: I used Google image search to find the photos.
Hint #2: If you can't see what you're doing, get some decent glasses
or a cheap USB microscope.

At 30X under the stereomicroscope, you can't see anything more
than what is visible to the naked eye.

The top "wire side" of the connections is obscured by the bulk
of the latching tab. Even made from "transparent plastic" it
still proves to be effectively opaque by the time you get "down"
to the contacts. (though I can see all the tooling marks
from the injection mold in which the shells were cast!)

The bottom "contact side" of the connector shows nothing but the
exposed contact that mates with the female counterpart. Peering
up *into* the connector body from below doesn't yield any image
for the same reason as peering from above.

The *side* of the connector only exposes the contact in profile.
And, despite the "depth" that the stereomicroscope affords, the
difference in the "planes" of the two "teeth" is just not
apparent. Any seeming difference can just as easily be
attributable to my holding the connector body at a tiny angle, etc.

(looking into the connector from the front or back are equally
pointless -- too much "in the way")

A USB microscope nor "decent glasses" won't change those observations!

I am still at a loss as to how to *extract* the contact given how
closely spaced they are. Perhaps a *pin* digging into the metalic
portion might allow enough force to be exerted to wiggle it free?
Though they don't *feel* that willing to move...
Hint #3: You can't do decent crimps unless you can see the ends of
the wires through the clear plastic connector to make sure they're
fully pushed into the connector. Many crimping tools don't all this.
Also, make sure it has a ratchet.

Thanks, but I know how to make reliable CAT5 cables. :>

Also, be aware that some connector shells allow the wires
to be pulled *through* the connector body and out the
other side -- then, trimmed flush with side cutters.

(I'm not a fan of this -- "traditionalist"? -- though it would
make verifying actual wire order a LOT easier!)

And, the apparent answer to my query is: some connector shells
support *either* solid or stranded (which explains why there is
no difference in the "bags" of connectors that I have here!)
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jeff,

[Perhaps I can find a detailed mechanical drawing at somebody's
manufacturer web site...]

3rd image down.
<https://www.brucetambling.com/wiki/Studio1100:Cat_5>

Ah! This contradicts (to an extent) the description on the
Wikipedia page I mentioned. E.g., the connectors I have appear
to be the leftmost in the photo claiming to be "solid or stranded".
Note the Wikipedia page suggests this is "stranded" (only).

<https://www.brucetambling.com/w/images/0/0f/Stranded_vs_solid_contact_lg.jpg>
The picture and description are accurate. The reason for two

Then the Wikipedia description is inaccurate (or, at best, misleading)
different types of "stranded or solid" wire contacts is probably a
patent issue. I use the "trident" like contact style on most
everything I use. I've found the stranded-only variety to be
unreliable in that it will sometimes cut the stranded wires with a
mis-adjusted crimping tool.


I'll post some photos with my USB microscope and possibly my binocular
microscope:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/slides/microscope-setup.html>
I have no problem seeing the different types of contacts without much
more than my reading glasses. Therefore, I assume that something with

As I said, I can clearly see two prongs with my unaided eyes.
But, I can't tell if there is a *third* prong. Nor if the
two prongs are coplanar. I can see a difference in depth but
can't attest that this isn't attributed to my position of the
connector body itself.

And, given that there are two bags with different part numbers
(solid vs stranded), one would *think* there would be a noticeable
difference between the connectors ("Which bag did these fall out
of?")
more magnification will be better. Last resort is to sacrifice a
connector to the electronics gods and extract the contact.


Well, you might be correct due to your microscope's insufficient depth
of field. We'll see how mine does.

As I said, I can see the two teeth to be at different depths
from the objective. But, is that because the connector body
is skewed? The contacts not truly parallel to the edge of
the body? etc. There's very little difference between the
tips of the two teeth if there *is* any!
Wrong. At the front (the end that you shove into the receptacle) you
should be able to see the ends of the copper wires. This checks for
screwups such as, cutting the wires at an angle, partially missing the
contact area, and lousy retention.

No, we're talking about a *bare* connector. No wires inside (how would
you see around the wire if it was present?). When building a cable,
I can see/verify the ends of the wire are fully inserted with my unaided
eyes. That's how I tell if I may have been "off" when trimming the
conductors to the same "penetration".
We shall soon see (probably tomorrow). I need to do billing tonite.


A pair of big diagonal cutters should be adequate at destroying the
plastic. What's left are the contacts. If you require elegance, take
an uncrimped RJ45 plug, put a small jewelers screwdriver on the front
end on the contact, and beat on it with a hammer. The contact should
pop right out. Again, uncrimped connector, not one that has a cable
attached.

I'm going to try to pry it out with a small stainless steel pin.
There's a bit of a gap on each side of the "blade" so if I can
get it to wiggle, it will probably fall out (and get lost in the
carpet pile)
You have a cable certifier? I borrow a Fluke DSP-2000 from the local
wiring contractor when I need reports. I can't justify the $3,000
cost of a new certifier.

No, I just use a Navitek. IME, cable failures are pretty apparent
while you're making them:
- soft crimp (you know before the crimp is done that it "missed")
- misplaced white (one of the whites shifted as you were inserting)

The first you just learn from instinct -- it just *feels* wrong!
No need to check, it's bad. Cut off the connector and try again.

The second turns up in a cable test.
I'll spare you my rant on what I think of those. They make it easy
for inexperience installers to crimp connectors, but do nothing for
someone that has the proper tools and some experience.


Verification is easy. Either get a cheap continuity tester such as:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/301033488504>
or do it visually.
Hint #1: Every other wire has white as the base color.

Seeing white is easy. Seeing whether it has a green or blue tracer
is the tricky part!
Hint #2: Make sure the high skool slackers that you hire know the
difference between 568a and 568b color coding. I had to rework an
install where they didn't.

I don't hire folks for that sort of thing. I don't *do* that
sort of thing, either! I only deal with short cables that I
need to be "the right length" and can't rely on store-bought.
Yep. There's no reason to buy solid-only or stranded-only connectors.

There's no reason to *buy* connectors when you've got *boxes* of them
already! :>

I'll pull one out of each "type". Use unopened bags just to remove
all doubt. If the contacts appear the same, then it will be as I
initially speculated:

"...I could see manufacturers making a single product (perhaps a
*hybrid*) and packaging it as *both*!"
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,

I've asked this in several places (possibly even here,
previously) and still haven't received a good answer...

RJ45 (8P8C) connectors come in a variety of styles, chiefly
cable type (flat vs round) and conductor type (solid vs
stranded).

The former distinction is relatively easy to recognize. But,
the latter doesn't seem to be consistently recognizable!
(yes, I've seen the Wikipedia page).
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=modular+stranded+vs+solid

Almost all of the connectors that I have *appear* (see above)
to be for stranded wire -- despite coming out of bags marked
"for solid wire"!
OK, it's possible that the bags got mismarked at the factory
(though I have examples of such from different vendors!).
But, I wonder if it isn't just a "manufacturing economy"?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=041cc4P8KBM‎

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or, *definitive* criteria
that I can use to examine the IDC contacts of each connector

connectors made for solid will have teeth tips offset from the
centreline
for some subtle clues?? (I imagine I can dissolve the plastic
body if necessary to ensure full access to an unmolested
"pin")

It should be reasonably easy to pull the contact out of an uncrimped
plug, crimped plugs need a little more effort but the contact can
usually be lifted using a tool with a sharp point.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jeff,

Photos of two types of connectors taken with my cheap, junk, eBay USB
microscope. The photo of the microscope has built in 8 LED ring
illuminator turned off to eliminate glare:
<http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/jeffl/pics/RJ45/>

I can see *that* much detail with my unaided eye! What I can't
*reliably* discern is whether the two prongs exist in the same
plane, staggered planes or at entirely different angles to
each other (e.g., "twisted").

Recall, I'm comparing two connectors that *claimed* to be
different (prior to this thread) and trying to understand what
that difference could be (ans: none!). Since they both appear
the same (two prongs) when viewed from this "side view", the
difference "*must*" have something to do with the spacing of
the prongs, right?

(Reiterating: they were *supposed* to be different...)
I could drag out the microscope if you want a better photo if you
want.


See my photos. It should be obvious.

I was thinking the third prong (middle) would be in a different
plane than the other "end" two. Farther "into" the screen.
You have to remove the contact from the connector to see that.
However, it's a fair assumption that it is staggered slightly to
straddle the connector.

Unless, for stranded wire, they were trying to pick up different
places in the "twist".

(Reiterating: they were *supposed* to be different...)
I've had the displeasure of dealing with a mixed bag of RF45
connectors. The local wiring contractor sold them to me because he
didn't want to spend a day sorting out about 200 connectors. I got
the bag for about $20 and hired the neighbors kids to do the sorting.
Amazingly, no mistakes.

In my case, just a large box full of little bags (probably 100
pieces in a bag?). The "sorting" involved reading which bags said
"round" vs "flat", or "solid" vs. "stranded". This latter
distinction now appears to have been artificial.
Ummm... that's not right. The "teeth" should be the same length.

No, depth when viewed from the side -- as in your photos.
Put the connector on its side. Then, gauge the distance
"into the screen" of each of the tips.

Now, decide if the difference is because the metal is
actually bent to ensure the tips are in slightly different
planes (one wire thickness); or because the contact isn't
actually perfectly parallel to the outer surface of the connector
as it sits on the microscope's stage; or because there is a
taper/imperfection in the shape of the connector shell as
it sits on the stage.

If, instead, I could have rotated the connector into its normal
orientation (pins down, locking tab up), AND observed the
teeth from above, it would be easier to use the length of the
contact as a straightedge and determine if the teeth were
collinear or staggered. But, doing so means trying to peer
*through* the locking tab.
No. I have managed to skew the contacts with a bad crimper or by not
shoving the connector all the way into the crimper, but with an
uncrimped connector, the contacts should not be skewed.


The two "teeth" should be bevel cut in opposing directions. It's
difficult to see without a magnifier.

I can see it. I just can't claim that it is an intentional
feature or a "manufacturing/viewing tolerance"
That's the same way I do it. However, it's a bit difficult to do
WHILE crimping the connector. So, I look at the ends of the wires, to
see if they're visible through the plastic. A blank space indicates a
wire that wasn't pushed all the way into the connector.

Oh. I don't have a problem seeing the wire placement while the
connector is in the crimper. Usually, screwups are obvious
before I even get the connector shell into the crimper
(wires into shell, inspect, connector into crimper, verify,
crimp)
Over the years, I've trained a fair number of competitors. However,
you're right. At 65.9 years, I'm getting too old for this kind of
work. I just wired the phone and ethernet in a neighboring office. 12
phones lines and 10 ethernet ports. I'll spare you the photos as I'm
not very proud of this job. It took about twice as long as expected
because I stupidly decided to use the existing CAT5 in the wall. I
would have hired some kids to help, but the budget didn't allow it.

In this case, I'm stringing new cables under my worktables.
I need 16 *different* lengths from 5 to ~30 ft (to cut down on
excess "service loops" that add to the clutter).

I'll have to do a similar task in the "computer lab" I've been
setting up, tomorrow. My back will not be happy crawling around
on the floor tacking cables *up* to the underside of the tables!
 
K

Kevin McMurtrie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Y <[email protected]> said:
Hi,

I've asked this in several places (possibly even here,
previously) and still haven't received a good answer...

RJ45 (8P8C) connectors come in a variety of styles, chiefly
cable type (flat vs round) and conductor type (solid vs
stranded).

The former distinction is relatively easy to recognize. But,
the latter doesn't seem to be consistently recognizable!
(yes, I've seen the Wikipedia page).

Almost all of the connectors that I have *appear* (see above)
to be for stranded wire -- despite coming out of bags marked
"for solid wire"!

OK, it's possible that the bags got mismarked at the factory
(though I have examples of such from different vendors!).
But, I wonder if it isn't just a "manufacturing economy"?
I.e., if one type (e.g., stranded) worked equally well for
the *other* type (e.g., solid), then I could see manufacturers
making a single product (perhaps a *hybrid*) and packaging it
as *both*!

At least, that's the only reasonable explanation I can find
for these observations...

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or, *definitive* criteria
that I can use to examine the IDC contacts of each connector
for some subtle clues?? (I imagine I can dissolve the plastic
body if necessary to ensure full access to an unmolested
"pin")

Thx,
--don

Crimp stranded wire in. If the prongs go through the center of the
wire, it's stranded only.

Crimp solid wire in. If it's very hard to crimp or the wire snaps off,
it's stranded only.


The bigger problem I've seen is that you never know what gauge of wire
the no-name jacks are for.
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crimp connector work on wire that has NOT been stripped.

Most work on BOTH wire types, because the wire is encapsulated in its
insulation. So there is no fray worries.

many stranded plugs don't work well on solid wire, gining intermittent
connections.
Hardly anyone uses solid wire any more for this application.

Some use double ended inserts and fit plugs to the fixed wire.
(I use punchdown blocks for the fixed wiring)
Is there even any made for cat 6?

There is lots of solid cat6 made, I would not be surprised if most of
it is solid.

The suplier we at work (and much of NZ it seems) buy it off has 1662
"rolls" of solid and 277 of stranded. or 502km solid and 78km stranded
rolls are mostly 305m but some 500m and some as short as 50m

(I pasted their website into a spreadsheet)

they also stock cat6 patch cables, 99761 pieces or 241km. (all stranded)

If their stock levels are representative there is (by length) twice as much
solid made as there is stranded.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jeff,

That's different. If you look at the cable end of the RJ45 connector,
you'll find two different styles of entry. One is a round affair
designed to fit and grip round cable. The other is a a slot like
affair, that is designed to fit and grip flat wire, such as ribbon
cable and under carpet cable. The wedge that grips the cable is also
quite different.

Not an issue -- I can tell round from flat. :> Above, I was referring
to the fact that there doesn't appear to be a real distinction FOR
THESE PARTICULAR "solid" AND "stranded" connectors. They apparently
use a "pin" that is equally applicable (so, the part numbers on the
bags are artificial)
More later. I'm late for a free lunch.

And *I* should probably eat *something*, today! :-/
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don said:
Hi,

I've asked this in several places (possibly even here,
previously) and still haven't received a good answer...

RJ45 (8P8C) connectors come in a variety of styles, chiefly
cable type (flat vs round) and conductor type (solid vs
stranded).

The former distinction is relatively easy to recognize. But,
the latter doesn't seem to be consistently recognizable!
(yes, I've seen the Wikipedia page).

Almost all of the connectors that I have *appear* (see above)
to be for stranded wire -- despite coming out of bags marked
"for solid wire"!

OK, it's possible that the bags got mismarked at the factory
(though I have examples of such from different vendors!).
But, I wonder if it isn't just a "manufacturing economy"?
I.e., if one type (e.g., stranded) worked equally well for
the *other* type (e.g., solid), then I could see manufacturers
making a single product (perhaps a *hybrid*) and packaging it
as *both*!

At least, that's the only reasonable explanation I can find
for these observations...

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or, *definitive* criteria
that I can use to examine the IDC contacts of each connector
for some subtle clues?? (I imagine I can dissolve the plastic
body if necessary to ensure full access to an unmolested
"pin")

Thx,
--don
Connectors that are eXplicitly made for solid wire have a slotted
fork; the wire goes into the slot which has knife-like edges to displace
some of the copper and make a cold weld connection,which is very reliable.
Use of stranded wire is rather counter-productive,to say the least.
The strands get pushed around and the connection not as robust, and can
be poor.
The IDC scheme does seem to work, tho . . refer to common use in flat
computer cables as one example.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jasen,

There is lots of solid cat6 made, I would not be surprised if most of
it is solid.

The suplier we at work (and much of NZ it seems) buy it off has 1662
"rolls" of solid and 277 of stranded. or 502km solid and 78km stranded
rolls are mostly 305m but some 500m and some as short as 50m

(I pasted their website into a spreadsheet)

they also stock cat6 patch cables, 99761 pieces or 241km. (all stranded)

If their stock levels are representative there is (by length) twice as much
solid made as there is stranded.

<frown> It's also possible that more stranded is *sold* and the
(relatively) "large inventory" of solid is just "old stock" that
has been sitting around (no demand). You'd have to watch the
inventory over time to get a better feel.

<shrug> Dunno.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Doug,

I've chatted with my wire vendor a bit about ethernet cabling. They
are an industrial distributer of many products, but are huge in the
cabling industry.

Stranded ethernet cabling is sold mostly only to places that make
patch cables in an industrial scale. He stocks some Cat5e stranded,
(but not Cat6 or Cat6a) for those weird folks, such as myself, who
do a lot of datacenter cabling to length. But I'm probably his only
account that reguarly buys it.

But that says nothing of the relative amounts of solid vs stranded
sold, "in general".
OOTH, all the electricians/datacomm guys would be buying solid cable
to do horizontal and riser runs all over buildings and such. They
regularly go through tons of it, and I wouldn't count stock levels as
a picture of what is bought& sold, you would have to look at volume.
Which for most distributers is going to be solid all the way through.

--------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Except for those who feed cable manufacturers -- who will probably
see *zero* (relatively speaking) solid wire purchases.
Nobody reguarly makes patch cables out of solid ethernet cable, but
most electricians will make some on the fly in a pinch if the
end-customer needs something done. I've replaced many eleectrician
provided solid patch cables at customer sites, that have failed.

I don't think solid patch cables last more than a year or two of
typical stress/movement, and don't count them reliable enough to
use in my work. Even with the "correct" solid ends, they tend to fail
at a very high rate over time.

Agreed.

OTOH, how many patch cords get discarded over time? Broken latch?
Knotted? etc. In that same time period, have you ever seen
someone *pull* the wire that's in the walls out and replace it?

E.g., I'm just coming to the end of my fourth? (or fifth?) box
of cable for the house. I *know* none of it will ever be replaced
because it won't be accessible (no attic or basement). Yet I
probably toss a "patch cord" every couple of weeks. Over the course
of a home's lifetime, how many feet of "stranded" does that
represent?

[Note, in my case, many drops never see a patch cord on the "far end"
as they are hardwired to "devices". I don't think that is common for
most installations where you'd tend to have patch cords on each end
of the infrastructure wiring: from servers/switches to "distribution"
and from end drops to "end devices". Plus, stranded wiring within the
data center itself.]

It would be interesting to see total solid vs stranded production
(consumption) "industry wide".
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
OTOH, how many patch cords get discarded over time? Broken latch?
Knotted? etc. In that same time period, have you ever seen
someone *pull* the wire that's in the walls out and replace it?

yeah, I've seen 25 pair "key system" wiring pulled and replaced with cat5
 
G

Grant Edwards

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crimp connector work on wire that has NOT been stripped.

Most work on BOTH wire types, because the wire is encapsulated in its
insulation. So there is no fray worries.

Hardly anyone uses solid wire any more for this application.

What is "this application"?

Infrastructure wiring (more-or-less permanent stuff inside walls and
whatnot) is pretty much always solid.
Is there even any made for cat 6?

Don't be silly. Most cat 6 cable is solid. Check the 1000ft spools
at any cable wholesaler. The only thing stranded is used for is patch
cables that get moved around a lot.
Pretty sure there are no differences in the crimp connectors, because
they have to able to be crimped by the same tools all over the world.

Yes, the crimp connectors are different. Some crimp connectors are
designed for use only with only, some for solid only, some for either.

I've once tried (unknowingly) using standed-only connectors on solid
conductors. They don't work reliably in the long term.
They all align and feed 8 round insulated conductors up through
channeled guides, into the area where the crimp occurs.

You're over-simplifying. The design of the end of pin where it pushes
through the insulation differs.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jasen,

yeah, I've seen 25 pair "key system" wiring pulled and replaced with cat5
But that's "replacing (with something different)" not replacing due to wear.

Here (US) "abandoned cable" is supposed to be removed -- unless clearly
tagged "for future expansion"
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jasen,


But that's "replacing (with something different)" not replacing due to wear.

So you don't expect your house to last longer than cat6 is viable?

I bet the person who commisioned the key system thought that was a
permanent solution, someoned later replace it wuth a panasonic
digital/analogue PABX (using fewer pairs on the same copper), we
replaced that with asterisk and SIP phones on CAT5e.
 
D

Don Y

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jasen,

So you don't expect your house to last longer than cat6 is viable?

*This* house is a bad example. I am *sure* the cable will be
here when the house ultimately collapses, is bulldozed for a
new development, etc. It is just not practical to *remove*
the wiring: no basement, no attic. To get the wires *out*,
you'll have to rip open the ceilings, walls, etc. "Ain't gonna
happen" :>
I bet the person who commisioned the key system thought that was a
permanent solution, someoned later replace it wuth a panasonic
digital/analogue PABX (using fewer pairs on the same copper), we
replaced that with asterisk and SIP phones on CAT5e.

How long was the cabling there? How many feet of "patch cords"
connecting that CAT5e infrastructure wiring to SIP handsets,
network switches, etc. will be replaced in the time that the
wiring stays *in* the walls? (i.e., assuming it *is* eventually
removed to run fibre, etc.).

Most folks do not repair "patch cords". Break a tab/latch and
the cord ends up in the trash bin -- even if you delay putting it
there, you *know* that's where its ultimately headed. I've tossed
two 50' cables in the past month because the tabs snapped off.
Try to replace? Or, buy another for $20? (in a business environment,
this is a non-decision -- *take* another from the *stock* of cables
you prepurchased for this reason!)

[The folks most likely willing to repair the cable to save the $20
probably haven't invested in the tools and parts to do so]

OTOH, in the unlikely event that someone mangles a *jack*, you
won't pull all the associated cable out of the wall and start
fresh. Instead, you'll replace the jack allowing all but an
inch or two of said cable to remain in place. So, the "solid"
remains in use while the "stranded" gets replaced.
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Jasen,



*This* house is a bad example. I am *sure* the cable will be
here when the house ultimately collapses, is bulldozed for a
new development, etc. It is just not practical to *remove*
the wiring: no basement, no attic. To get the wires *out*,
you'll have to rip open the ceilings, walls, etc. "Ain't gonna
happen" :>



How long was the cabling there?

at-least 6 months, before that I can only speculate.
key systems out out of fashion in the early 1980s,
so, more than 20 years. The sockets and termination blocks
were on MDF plaques so less than 35 years.

How many feet of "patch cords"
connecting that CAT5e infrastructure wiring to SIP handsets,
network switches, etc. will be replaced in the time that the
wiring stays *in* the walls?

none, you picked another bad example. the buliding was demolished
after the Feb 2011 earthquake,
Most folks do not repair "patch cords". Break a tab/latch and
the cord ends up in the trash bin -- even if you delay putting it
there, you *know* that's where its ultimately headed. I've tossed
two 50' cables in the past month because the tabs snapped off.
Try to replace? Or, buy another for $20? (in a business environment,
this is a non-decision -- *take* another from the *stock* of cables
you prepurchased for this reason!)

I often re-use the end with the good plug for a purpose
that would have otherwise required fitting a plug or cutting
up a good cable.
[The folks most likely willing to repair the cable to save the $20
probably haven't invested in the tools and parts to do so]

We pay a bit over half that for 15m cables..
OTOH, in the unlikely event that someone mangles a *jack*, you
won't pull all the associated cable out of the wall and start
fresh. Instead, you'll replace the jack allowing all but an
inch or two of said cable to remain in place. So, the "solid"
remains in use while the "stranded" gets replaced.

I have not seen a high rate of damage to patch cables. we buy one
of the types with snag resistant tabs and run them away from crush
risks, but mainly we leave them alone. treated properly they last
almost forever.
 
P

Peter

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have recently had to deal with this issue at work.

We have found that a lot of RJ45s are not reliably crimped. Maybe a 5%
failure rate.

These are Chinese-made cables which we buy in, custom made, 1000+.

It appears they were *adequately* crimped i.e. the compression tool
did penetrate far enough.

So what happened?

Probably they didn't use the correct wire size for the contacts.

There is a separate issue which is that a second crimp is used to hold
the cable insulation in place, as a form of strain relief. This also
need the correct cable diameter to be used, otherwise you get an
unreliable connector.
 
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