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RMS voltage of a square wave

P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Don Kelly"
-----------
If it is not sampling- then what is it? Thermal? There is a little black
box in the device which is just that- a little black box.
I presently have problems getting the applicable pdf from the Analog
device site.


** Analog Devices have been supplying " true rms to DC converter " ICs for
about 30 years.

The data sheet for the AD636 will give you some idea how it computes the DC
value of an AC input.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/57885.pdf

Use Google for more info.

Don't be so damn lazy.



...... Phil
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
"krw" = just another autistic cunthead


**** off and die

- you festering pile of sub human excrement.

I bet you say that to all the guys.
 
S

Salmon Egg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil Allison said:
"krw" = just another autistic cunthead


**** off and die

- you festering pile of sub human excrement.




.... Phil

I guess we are blessed with another middle school misfit.
 
P

Paul E. Schoen

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
Calorimetry is notoriously difficult. Ask Pons and Fleishman. ;-)


Yes, I used an HP true RMS voltmeter when I was in college. It was
a marvelously expensive widget and they didn't like mere students
using it. ;-) It's likely the best way to measure true RMS voltage
at high frequency. I suppose you could read current with the same
meter. ;-)

I worked on some true RMS panel meters many years ago, and they used a
heater and a thermocouple inside a glass bulb. There was a considerable
time delay to get an accurate measurement, and there was some ambient
temperature compensation required, but it was very accurate and worked at
DC to RF (at least to several MHz). But these sensors were rather expensive
and fragile.

A friend and I tried to design a true RMS meter using a lamp and a
photocell, but we found that there was a considerable aging effect on the
output of the lamp, and there was also some ambient temperature error that
needed compensation. I think we were finally able to solve the stability
and aging problems by using two lamp/photocell pairs in a sort of bridge
circuit, where one was driven by the measured signal and the other was
driven by a DC signal that also drove the meter. But the current draw for
both elements was more than the allowed specification, as it was a
self-contained meter with a range of about 4-8 VRMS.

For a bench instrument, such a method would be very practical. You just
need to make two well-matched lamp/photocell pairs, and some signal
conditioning, amplification, and limiting for the lamp, and then use an
op-amp or other means to drive the other sensor so that the photocell
outputs are identical. Then the DC current in the DC sensor matches the
true-RMS current in the other, for any waveform or frequency. But it does
have a rather narrow range of operation. You can't get very close to zero.
Probably 20% to 100% would be possible. The lamp must be driven hard enough
to become incandescent and be sensed by the photocell, which has a limited
spectral range. The heater/thermocouple could go lower, but becomes
relatively insensitive, because heat is proportional to I^2.

Paul
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Salmon Egghead = Fuckwit "


** Go drop dead - septic ****.


...... Phil
 
D

Doug Miller

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think that means he loves you.
Mayb -- just maybe -- if everybody would stop responding to Phyllis, he'd go
find some other sandbox to poop in.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Doug Miller"


** Go drop dead - septic ****.




...... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Martin Crossley Stinking ASSHOLE "


** Go drop dead - FUCKWIT septic ****.



..... Phil
 
D

Don Kelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
----------------------------
Phil Allison said:
"Don Kelly"


** Analog Devices have been supplying " true rms to DC converter " ICs for
about 30 years.

The data sheet for the AD636 will give you some idea how it computes the
DC value of an AC input.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/57885.pdf

Use Google for more info.

Don't be so damn lazy.



..... Phil
----


The data sheet that you reference tells how the device is made- with two
black boxes-the squarer/divider and the current mirror. It does not explain
what each of these components actually do.
So -no new information. As I said, the pdf reference at Analog devices
doesn't come through completely- just a few lines on a few pages -enough to
hint and tantalise but not enough to be of use.
It's not for lack of trying for information.

What I wanted to know was what was in these boxes in broad terms of their
terms of their operation as there are several ways to get a true rms
measurement (assuming component frequencies outside the meter's bandwidth
can be ignored).

If you don't know, say so.


Don Kelly [email protected]
remove the X to answer
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Don Kelly"
"Phil Allison"
The data sheet that you reference tells how the device is made- with two
black boxes-the squarer/divider and the current mirror. It does not
explain what each of these components actually do.


** So you missed the schematic in figure 9 entirely ???

Wanker.

So -no new information.


** Bollocks.

It is all new information in relation to your original *dumb* question -
wanker.

What I wanted to know was what was in these boxes in broad terms of their
terms of their operation as there are several ways to get a true rms
measurement (assuming component frequencies outside the meter's bandwidth
can be ignored).


**The data sheet for the AD536 has more detail plus quotes the maths
formulae device operation relies on:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/57860.pdf

See fig. 9 again and the text around it headed:

" AD536A Principle of Operation ".


Then **** off.




....... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Don Kelly = Shithead "
As I said, the pdf reference at Analog devices doesn't come through
completely- just a few lines on a few pages


** Nice of you to OMIT to say what fucking " pdf " on the Analog Devices
site you are crapping on about.

But if you go to:

http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,773%5F866%5FAD736,00.html

click on " Application Notes" and then click on:

" Section I: RMS to DC Conversion - Theory "

A nice 2.8 MB pdf file appears, complete.

Wanker.



....... Phil
 
D

Dave Martindale

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill Bowden said:
Look at it this way: You have a 1KW space heater you run half the time
(1 hour on and 1 hour off). The average power is 500 watts. Say the
heater voltage is 100 VDC and the current is 10 amps, and the heater
resistance is 10 ohms. So, the question is what RMS voltage will give
you 500 watts at 10 ohms and 100 volts peak? Work that out and we find
the voltage to be 70.7 and the RMS current to be 7.07 amps.
So, it looks like for a square wave, the RMS voltage or current is the
peak divided by the square root of 2.

That's for an "alternate on and off" square wave, where one of the two
voltage levels is zero.

More often, though, when someone says "square wave", they mean an AC
square wave with no DC component, and two voltage levels +V and -V that
are symmetric about zero. For *that* square wave, rms voltage is equal
to peak voltage.

Dave
 
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Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"D. Ismay"
The 'cover' PDF gives a fairly clear and thorough description of how the
RMS-DC convertor is designed, down to the level of a few basic functional
blocks.


** The link I originally supplied him for the AD636 has a full description
of how the device operates INCLUDING a detailed internal schematic.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/57885.pdf

See the section starting on page 5, " AD636 Principle of Operation ".

Did you expect others to do your homework for you?


** The fool cannot see what is right in front of his eyes.

Usual disability of all wankers.


....... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Ben Miller"
He obviously did not get the entire document, for whatever technical
reason.


** Try following the thread - pal.

All the info was in the FIRST link I supplied( to the AD636) and he could
see ALL of that.
Therefore, he didn't see the other information.


** BOLLOCKS !

Since you apparently don't frequent this newsgroup, you might want to do
some homework yourself before you direct comments like that at an engineer
who can run circles around you in terms of his electrical knowledge.


** Shame how you cannot even follow a simple thread - let alone see
through that arrogant fake Kelly.




...... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Don Kelly"
"Phil Allison"

** You made no mention of seeing only one page - such data sheets never
have just one page with no specs.

PLUS the site YOU claimed to have trouble with was NOT the Farnell site -
as given in the link above.

So I think you are lying.


Now I have the full pdf and see the process.

Thank you for your "courteous" response.


** Go get fucked - you lying pig.



...... Phil
 
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