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ROHS Question

J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can ROHS components be soldered with Pb-Sn solder?

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Rene Tschaggelar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Can ROHS components be soldered with Pb-Sn solder?

Sure.
I prefer the TSSOP16 and such on prototypes to
be soldered with leaded tin.

Rene
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Can ROHS components be soldered with Pb-Sn solder?

...Jim Thompson

Well, yes and no.

The tin in the RoHS parts dilutes the tin-lead solder, and makes
it a funny alloy that usually looks frosty when it cools. I would
suggest using 60-40, as opposed to 63-37 solder. The resulting alloy
sure looks better. As the tin heats up on the part, it wrinkles
and looks really nasty where it is exposed to oxygen.

All that aside, once you get a decent looking joint with tin-lead
solder, on RoHS parts, things are great.

When you start working with lead free solder, you will notice that
"good" joints look like cold solder joints with normal solder.

Also, in storage, RoHS parts oxidize and that prevents them from
taking solder, so be wary of older stock parts.

The electronics industry is going to be hurt really bad by this
stupid diversion into giving the euronation that warm and fuzzy
feeling of being lead-free. Their time and efforts would be better
spent ridding themselves of lead plumbing. Lead, the "plumb" in
plumbing.

-Chuck Harris
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chuck Harris said:
Well, yes and no.

The tin in the RoHS parts dilutes the tin-lead solder, and makes
it a funny alloy that usually looks frosty when it cools. I would
suggest using 60-40, as opposed to 63-37 solder. The resulting alloy
sure looks better. As the tin heats up on the part, it wrinkles
and looks really nasty where it is exposed to oxygen.

All that aside, once you get a decent looking joint with tin-lead
solder, on RoHS parts, things are great.

When you start working with lead free solder, you will notice that
"good" joints look like cold solder joints with normal solder.

Also, in storage, RoHS parts oxidize and that prevents them from
taking solder, so be wary of older stock parts.

The electronics industry is going to be hurt really bad by this
stupid diversion into giving the euronation that warm and fuzzy
feeling of being lead-free. Their time and efforts would be better
spent ridding themselves of lead plumbing. Lead, the "plumb" in
plumbing.

-Chuck Harris

What date is set for RoHS? I just bought a reel of lead-tin solder, if the
cut off date is still to arrive I can wait till it passes and go repeat the
order and see what happens!
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, yes and no.

The tin in the RoHS parts dilutes the tin-lead solder, and makes
it a funny alloy that usually looks frosty when it cools. I would
suggest using 60-40, as opposed to 63-37 solder. The resulting alloy
sure looks better. As the tin heats up on the part, it wrinkles
and looks really nasty where it is exposed to oxygen.

All that aside, once you get a decent looking joint with tin-lead
solder, on RoHS parts, things are great.

When you start working with lead free solder, you will notice that
"good" joints look like cold solder joints with normal solder.

Also, in storage, RoHS parts oxidize and that prevents them from
taking solder, so be wary of older stock parts.

The electronics industry is going to be hurt really bad by this
stupid diversion into giving the euronation that warm and fuzzy
feeling of being lead-free. Their time and efforts would be better
spent ridding themselves of lead plumbing. Lead, the "plumb" in
plumbing.

-Chuck Harris

I like that term "euronation" ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
P

Philipp Klaus Krause

Jan 1, 1970
0
ian said:
What date is set for RoHS? I just bought a reel of lead-tin solder, if the
cut off date is still to arrive I can wait till it passes and go repeat the
order and see what happens!

Lead-tin solder will be available for a long time: It's still allowed
for repairing legacy equipment and for personal (creating devices you
won't sell) use.
The date for RoHS is in one week.

Philipp
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, yes and no.

The tin in the RoHS parts dilutes the tin-lead solder, and makes
it a funny alloy that usually looks frosty when it cools. I would
suggest using 60-40, as opposed to 63-37 solder. The resulting alloy
sure looks better. As the tin heats up on the part, it wrinkles
and looks really nasty where it is exposed to oxygen.

All that aside, once you get a decent looking joint with tin-lead
solder, on RoHS parts, things are great.

When you start working with lead free solder, you will notice that
"good" joints look like cold solder joints with normal solder.

Also, in storage, RoHS parts oxidize and that prevents them from
taking solder, so be wary of older stock parts.

Some of my 40 year old junk box parts are oxidized ;-) So my standard
practice is to burnish the leads (I only do DIL thru-hole) before
soldering.
The electronics industry is going to be hurt really bad by this
stupid diversion into giving the euronation that warm and fuzzy
feeling of being lead-free. Their time and efforts would be better
spent ridding themselves of lead plumbing. Lead, the "plumb" in
plumbing.

-Chuck Harris


...Jim Thompson
 
I

ian field

Jan 1, 1970
0
Philipp Klaus Krause said:
Lead-tin solder will be available for a long time: It's still allowed
for repairing legacy equipment and for personal (creating devices you
won't sell) use.
The date for RoHS is in one week.

Philipp

Thanks for the info - at UK£30 per 0.5kg reel I don't mind leaving it longer
to buy another one!
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can ROHS components be soldered with Pb-Sn solder?

...Jim Thompson

Yes, but then your product loses any chance it had at RoHS
compliancy.
 
S

Slurp

Jan 1, 1970
0
Philipp Klaus Krause said:
Lead-tin solder will be available for a long time: It's still allowed
for repairing legacy equipment and for personal (creating devices you
won't sell) use.
The date for RoHS is in one week.

Philipp

I have original leaded lights in my cottage which are in need of repair.
Will I have to get hold of some lead free lead to re-lead them?

Will I have to advertise my cottage when I sell it as having lead free
leaded lights or partially lead free releaded lead free lights or what???


Slurp
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Jim,

Can ROHS components be soldered with Pb-Sn solder?

Did it last week, worked fine. Kester 15mil no-clean is really nice
stuff, tried that as well for the first time in my lab.
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Philipp said:
Lead-tin solder will be available for a long time: It's still allowed
for repairing legacy equipment and for personal (creating devices you
won't sell) use.
The date for RoHS is in one week.

Several categories of equipment are still allowed to use tin-lead processes too.

Graham
 
R

Richard Crowley

Jan 1, 1970
0
The electronics industry is going to be hurt really bad by this
stupid diversion into giving the euronation that warm and fuzzy
feeling of being lead-free. Their time and efforts would be better
spent ridding themselves of lead plumbing. Lead, the "plumb" in
plumbing.

OTOH, their collective madness may actually be caused by
the led leaching out of solder joints in discarded electronic
stuff in their landfills. Maybe they really need Lead-Free? :)
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Can ROHS components be soldered with Pb-Sn solder?

...Jim Thompson
Absolutely!
Just do not try to sell it in Europe.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Slurp said:
I have original leaded lights in my cottage which are in need of repair.
Will I have to get hold of some lead free lead to re-lead them?

Will I have to advertise my cottage when I sell it as having lead free
leaded lights or partially lead free releaded lead free lights or what???


Slurp
What LEAD you to this question?
LEAD on to more of the same...
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard said:
...

OTOH, their collective madness may actually be caused by the led
leaching out of solder joints in discarded electronic
stuff in their landfills. Maybe they really need Lead-Free? :)

I think there is more lead in a single UK water main than exists in the
entirety of manufactured electronic equipment.

-Chuck
 
N

nospam

Jan 1, 1970
0
Richard Crowley said:
...

OTOH, their collective madness may actually be caused by
the led leaching out of solder joints in discarded electronic
stuff in their landfills. Maybe they really need Lead-Free? :)

From here http://www.dwi.gov.uk/pubs/lead/index.htm

"Nevertheless some infants and children may still be at risk. Studies have
shown that lead can have a small effect on the mental development of
children. It may also be a factor in behavioural problems."

I looked at this some time ago and it isn't true. Some studies found small
correlations between IQ test results and the measured lead content of
children, some didn't.

No studies could prove it was causal. When you consider the mechanisms by
which lead got into the children it is fanciful to imagine that
environmental and behavioural factors could not be involved and that those
factors are not also effected by IQ or IQ is effected by them.

Wouldn't you expect that a child who goes round chewing 40 year old paint
work or licking exhaust emissions from the pavements or who's family bought
the house next door to the lead smelting plant would not be quite the
brightest pin in the cushion?

So yes there is madness involved but not caused by lead. Whacking the dumb
fscks around the head with a lump of it would probably do them some good.

--
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
nospam said:
Wouldn't you expect that a child who goes round chewing 40 year old paint
work or licking exhaust emissions from the pavements

Ever had a kid? My boy is top of the top in his school, but you should see
what he did to the edge of the coffee table when he was 1 yo and those teeth
were coming in: Chomp, chomp, chomp... I was with him, as best as I could
be all the time, but he still found time to chew away.

Now, imagine that lead makes paint a little bit sweet (it does), and that it
was used for interior paint in houses (it was)... and oh, do you feel lucky?

The lead that is outside becomes a problem when a child's hands get in the
lead contaminated dirt, and then get in the child's mouth. An event that
happens dozens of times per minute with 1-2-3 yo's.

I am quite certain that ingesting lead will damage your mental capacities.
What I am not convinced of is that the lead in electronic circuit boards is
significant in the over all scheme of things.

The solder used in electronics is only 37 to 40% lead. Metallic lead is not
overly prone to becoming a water soluble salt. Lead entombed in a properly
designed landfill tends to stay entombed. It doesn't show up to any great
extend in the leachate.

Car batteries are a far better vector for lead to enter the environment, than
electronics... One has only to look at the quantity of lead in a battery, and
the ubiquity of lead acid batteries to figure this out.

-Chuck Harris
 
R

Richard Crowley

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Chuck Harris" wrote ...
The solder used in electronics is only 37 to 40% lead. Metallic lead
is not
overly prone to becoming a water soluble salt. Lead entombed in a
properly
designed landfill tends to stay entombed. It doesn't show up to any
great
extend in the leachate.

Car batteries are a far better vector for lead to enter the
environment, than
electronics... One has only to look at the quantity of lead in a
battery, and
the ubiquity of lead acid batteries to figure this out.

So does the euronation have lead-free car batteries?
 

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