Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Rumble Mod Circuit For Steel Battalion

Robert.Ace

Nov 26, 2009
10
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
10
steel_battalion.jpg

This is the giant controller used for the game Steel Battalion for the xbox.

I used this schematic diagram from a guy called Alpha who did it to his controller.
control_circuit2.gif

I put captions to the inputs to help me understand it better, maybe the error in in there.
smallschematic.jpg


I finally finished it only it doesn't work as i expected it to. Instead of rumbling when the led light is on (the LED is the interfaced circuitry that's supposed to activate the switch), it rumbles after the light goes off. I'll push the button to test it; the led will light without rumbling, but it'll rumble in the half a second after i let go.
The rumble doesn't work in normal operation when the 5th communication led flashes when i take a hit. If i hold the button for a few seconds, it seems to help as it needed a few seconds of charging. It'll rumble good and then every other rumble will feel underpowered.
I'm not sure what i've done wrong since i wired everything exactly as the diagram shows and triple checked it. Maybe my above description will help you diagnose what i did wrong.

Here's my parts list in case i used something to the wrong specification:
1k-ohm, 1/4 watt 5% tolerance, (wrong wattage?)
2.2k-ohm, 1/4 watt 5% tolerance,
100µF 35V 20% Axial-Lead Electrolytic Capacitor (Maybe i should've used a radial lead? It was a blue one even though both leads came out at the same end. here's the link:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?produc
tId=2102484
LM741CN Operational Amplifier 8-Pin Dip
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?produc
tId=2062547&filterName=Type&filterValue=IC-Analog
LM555 Precision Timer (8-Pin DIP)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?produc
tId=2062596&filterName=Type&filterValue=IC-Analog
2N3904 NPN Small Signal Transistor
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?produc
tId=2062609

Thanks for any advice. I've tried contacting the guy but hasn't anserwed his messages in a month! Also i was wondering if i could interface a 9 volt battery if after the problem was fixed that the motors wouldn't have enough oomph. How could i do this? I was thinking of just grounding one side of the battery and then putting the positive at the collecter part of the transistor instead of the 5V dc input. Could the circuit handle this without any changes or would it fry anything?

The original tutorial is found here at:
http://www.bigmech.com/sb/sb_controller_mo...quirements.html

[email protected]
 

Resqueline

Jul 31, 2009
2,848
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,848
First off, the noninverting input of the 741 needs to be connected to something. Presumably the guy hooked it to +5V via a 100k resistor like the inverting input was in his first circuit on the previous page.
The resistor value is completely noncritical btw. You can just as well use 10k or 1k, or even a direct connection.
 

Robert.Ace

Nov 26, 2009
10
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
10
Thank you i'm absolutely new to this. The interfaced existing circuitry is a resistor that draws positive voltage (i assume) from an led. http://www.technologystudent.com/elec1/opamp2.htm In this page they have the extra pin grounded. Another person suggested i put the interfaced circuitry on the Non-inverting pin, I'm gonna do combination's of everything to see if it works.

How the circuitry works from what the guy said. When the LED lights up, it's supposed to trigger the two motors to rumble. The Led on the 5th communication button only lights up when it's pressed, or when you get hit by something in the game. So it's a hit indicator that gets the motors in the left and right stick rumbling.

The 741 Op Amp acts as a buffer and inverter, the 555 turns everything that's a small input at maximum (so the motors rumble nice and good) and the transistor is the switch. Two people have suggested the problem is in the 741 so that's a good start.


Hopefully it fixes itself!
 
Last edited:

cj_elec_tech

Oct 7, 2009
61
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
61
Hi.
As Resqueline said, you do need to connect the other 741 input, as per the Guy's earlier circuit:
http://www.bigmech.com/sb/sb_controller_mod/rumble/control_circuit.gif
but also note that the + and - inputs are the other way around and I think this is how your circuit should be wired too - that will trigger the 555 monostable circuit on the other signal edge (when the led lights, not when it goes out) - maybe he drew it this way by mistake? or maybe I'm wrong about that; I haven't checked the 555 data and I'm relying on memory...
I would expect the motors to be running 'flat-out' in this circuit, so you shouldn't really need a higher voltage. Maybe you could measure the +5v and the motor voltages when the motors are running and see if there is any voltage drop. Having said that, you could run the entire circuit from 9v if you wanted; connect the battery negative to the circuit 0v and the positive to the circuit's +5v - just MAKE SURE you have disconnected the circuit's +5v from the xbox controller +5v BEFORE you try it!

Please let us know how you go.

CJ
 

Robert.Ace

Nov 26, 2009
10
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
10
I would expect the motors to be running 'flat-out' in this circuit, so you shouldn't really need a higher voltage. Maybe you could measure the +5v and the motor voltages when the motors are running and see if there is any voltage drop. Having said that, you could run the entire circuit from 9v if you wanted; connect the battery negative to the circuit 0v and the positive to the circuit's +5v - just MAKE SURE you have disconnected the circuit's +5v from the xbox controller +5v BEFORE you try it!

The power is split between the two motors; and the flashes of light that power it are quick, so the motors feel sluggish. I did Put in a 9 volt battery just like you said and it gave me a jolt just like i wanted. I test it by tapping the button that lights the LED really quick and i get a good kick in both the sticks. Thanks for that, Between the two motors and the quick LED flashes that triggered them, the 5Vdc wasn't cutting it.

Hi.
As Resqueline said, you do need to connect the other 741 input, as per the Guy's earlier circuit:
http://www.bigmech.com/sb/sb_controller_mod/rumble/control_circuit.gif
but also note that the + and - inputs are the other way around and I think this is how your circuit should be wired too - that will trigger the 555 monostable circuit on the other signal edge (when the led lights, not when it goes out) - maybe he drew it this way by mistake? or maybe I'm wrong about that; I haven't checked the 555 data and I'm relying on memory...

I'm not sure what you mean, but i think you're getting to the root of my problem. I did some more testing and here's what i got With the added power from the 9v battery i realized that if i press the button that triggers the LED it would rumble at the beginning for a fraction of a second and then stop while the light was at full power, and then rumble for a fraction of a second after i let go. But not while the Led was on. This is sufficient to rumble the motors at the beginning of the game when the whole display flashes in patterns BUT NOT when i get hit in game and when i fall over. At those two instances the LED will flash at a diminished value but the circuit doesn't register it to trigger the motors.

I would expect the motors to be running 'flat-out' in this circuit, so you shouldn't really need a higher voltage. Maybe you could measure the +5v and the motor voltages when the motors are running and see if there is any voltage drop. Having said that, you could run the entire circuit from 9v if you wanted; connect the battery negative to the circuit 0v and the positive to the circuit's +5v - just MAKE SURE you have disconnected the circuit's +5v from the xbox controller +5v BEFORE you try it!

The power is split between the two motors; and the flashes of light that power it are quick, so the motors feel sluggish. I did Put in a 9 volt battery just like you said and it gave me a jolt just like i wanted. I test it by tapping the button that lights the LED really quick and i get a good kick in both the sticks. Thanks for that, Between the two motors and the quick LED flashes that triggered them, the 5Vdc wasn't cutting it.

Hi.
As Resqueline said, you do need to connect the other 741 input, as per the Guy's earlier circuit:
http://www.bigmech.com/sb/sb_controller_mod/rumble/control_circuit.gif
but also note that the + and - inputs are the other way around and I think this is how your circuit should be wired too - that will trigger the 555 monostable circuit on the other signal edge (when the led lights, not when it goes out) - maybe he drew it this way by mistake? or maybe I'm wrong about that; I haven't checked the 555 data and I'm relying on memory...

I'm not sure what you mean, but i think you're getting to the root of my problem. I did some more testing and here's what i got With the added power from the 9v battery i realized that if i press the button that triggers the LED it would rumble at the beginning for a fraction of a second and then stop while the light was at full power, and then rumble for a fraction of a second after i let go. But not while the Led was on. This is sufficient to rumble the motors at the beginning of the game when the whole display flashes in patterns BUT NOT when i get hit in game and when i fall over. At those two instances the LED will flash at a diminished value but the circuit doesn't register it to trigger the motors.

control_circuit.gif


So put the interfaced circuit to the non inverting (+ sign), and then a 100K resistor to the now +9V dc to the inverting (- sign) of the 741 op amp?

Will 9V dc change affect how it works? Do i have to change the 100K resistor to a different value?

If it does work so that it rumbles whenever the light is on instead of before and after, will it also solve the sensitivity so that the fainter LED signals trigger it as well?

Thank you guys for your help.
 

Resqueline

Jul 31, 2009
2,848
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,848
The game puts out some voltage to the LED. The point of the 741 circuit is to provide a defined switchover point (a voltage lower than the game puts out) and trigger the 555.
Whenever the noninverting input is at a higher voltage than the inverting input, the output will swing positive, turning on the transistor & (motors).
Hooking the input to 9V instead of 5V will change the way the circuit works, If the game only puts out 6V to the LED then it won't work. If it puts out 12V it'll still work.
So without knowing the game voltage I suggest you find a 5V source for the 100k resistor. The rest may be run on 9V.

Before, without hooking that input to something > it was floating, rendering the switchover point unpredictable, and the circuit operation completely flakey.
 
Last edited:

Robert.Ace

Nov 26, 2009
10
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
10
I have to go get a 100k resistor.

In the mean time, do i need to power the thing through inputs 4 and 7?
OpAmp2A04.gif
 

Resqueline

Jul 31, 2009
2,848
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,848
Oh yes, 4 must go to ground (-) and 7 must go to +5V (or +9V if you choose to run the motors on that).
 

Robert.Ace

Nov 26, 2009
10
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
10
Thanks Resqueline!

Finished it! The only problem i had was that i didn't know you had to power and ground the 741 op amp since it wasn't in the diagram and it's just assumed. I interfaced a 9V battery instead of the +5VDC and it gives it more oomph and works perfectly so thanks! Here's some pictures of the Ghetto Fabulous way i modded it: Bottom left most switch is the Rumble mod on/off switch. I'll have a video that i'll get up in a few days, (the quality and bad lighting isn't that good though.)

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w227/robert-0137/Steel Battalion mods/

You can see my rats nest of wires and soldering points.

Three quick questions. If i connected two 9V batteries in series to get 9V more power instead of the +5VDC line, would it short out the circuit and will it work fine?

If i connected two 9V batteries in series over the 741 op amp power and ground line, will that power go directly to the motors?

How do i change the pulse length so that the motors turn on and off really fast? I noticed they'll still rumble for fractions of a second after the communication LED lights up. When you get hit by a 140MG it'll rumble continuously which is a bit annoying. But with the power of one or two 9V batteries i could get quick powerful jolts.
 

Resqueline

Jul 31, 2009
2,848
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
2,848
Great!
Yes, some people assume a bit much sometimes.. ;)
Never mind the rats nest as long as it works!
Most 555's can only take up to 16V so 18V will be too much, but you could connect the 9V battery on top of the 5V so you get 14V. The 741 can take 18V but that doesn't help the motor speed a bit.
To make the motors turn off faster you'll need to add a PNP transistor to the circuit as there's nothing there now to brake the motors when they are supposed to turn off.
Use a 2N3906, connect base to base, emitter to emitter, and collector to ground.
I'm a bit worried that the 2N3904 is becoming a bit overtaxed with this high drive voltage. If you can get hold of a 2N2222 it can carry 3-4 times as much current.
 
Top