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Some magnetic equivalents of electrical entities

  • Thread starter Green Xenon [Radium]
  • Start date
G

Green Xenon [Radium]

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi:

Southern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in
the lines of force. Northern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of
the magnet giving out the lines of force. This is analogous to the fact
that negative electrodes give out electrons and positive electrodes take
in electrons in a circuit. The current flows from negative to positive
because electrons are negatively-charged. Similarly, the south side of a
magnet is positive while the north side is negative.


Regards,

Radium
 
B

Bill Hobba

Jan 1, 1970
0
Green Xenon said:
Hi:

Southern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in
the lines of force. Northern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of
the magnet giving out the lines of force. This is analogous to the fact
that negative electrodes give out electrons and positive electrodes take
in electrons in a circuit.

There is zero evidence for silly semantics like 'Southern magnetic energy is
emitted from the side of a magnet taking in the lines of force'. Relating
it self evident trivial statements like 'that negative electrodes give out
electrons', as if it was some great insight, simply compounds the
irrelevancy.

Bill
 
G

Green Xenon [Radium]

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill Hobba wrote:


There is zero evidence for silly semantics like 'Southern magnetic energy is
emitted from the side of a magnet taking in the lines of force'.

Look at the visualizations in the following links [look at the arrows on
the magnetic field lines] :

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node92.html

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter1/1i.htm

As you can see the magnetic lines depict the magnetic force being
carried from north to south.

The Earth's "South" pole is really the North, while the "North" pole is
actually the South because of this reason.

Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_South_Pole :

"The Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically actually a magnetic north
pole"

Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_North_Pole :

"Conversely, the Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically a magnetic
north pole"

Quotes from http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=404 :

"the magnetic field lines go out of the magnetic North pole and head
towards the South pole"

See what I mean?
Relating
it self evident trivial statements like 'that negative electrodes give out
electrons', as if it was some great insight, simply compounds the
irrelevancy.

How so? Electrons are negatively charged so they move away from negative
electrodes to positive electrodes. Similarly, "magnetons" [the particles
carrying magnetic energy] are "northly-charged", hence they move away
from north-side of the magnet towards to south-side.

So,

Positive charge in electricity = Southern "charge" in magnetism

Negative charge in electricity = Northern "charge" in magnetism

It's an analogy.
 
R

RP

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi:

Southern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in
the lines of force. Northern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of
the magnet giving out the lines of force. This is analogous to the fact
that negative electrodes give out electrons and positive electrodes take
in electrons in a circuit. The current flows from negative to positive
because electrons are negatively-charged. Similarly, the south side of a
magnet is positive while the north side is negative.

Regards,

Radium

Magnetic lines of force are only a conceptual tool. There is nothing
moving along those lines. The forces are actually directed
perpendicular to those lines, which makes them not lines of force at
all, they are just imaginary lines that serve as angular references.
The allow determination of the direction that the force will act on a
charge moving relative to the magnet. A simple cubical grid (Cartesian
coordinate system) could serve the same purpose, but the math would be
a bit more complicated.
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Green Xenon said:
Hi:

Southern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of a magnet taking in
the lines of force. Northern magnetic energy is emitted from the side of
the magnet giving out the lines of force.

Magnetic 'lines of force' are notional and are most certainly NOT energy.

Go back to school. You're not competent to post in these groups.

Graham
 
G

Green Xenon [Radium]

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eeyore wrote:

Magnetic 'lines of force' are notional and are most certainly NOT energy.


Why are the lines always depicted as pointing from north to south?
 
D

Dan Bloomquist

Jan 1, 1970
0
RP said:
Magnetic lines of force are only a conceptual tool. There is nothing
moving along those lines. The forces are actually directed
perpendicular to those lines, which makes them not lines of force at
all, they are just imaginary lines that serve as angular references.
The allow determination of the direction that the force will act on a
charge moving relative to the magnet. A simple cubical grid (Cartesian
coordinate system) could serve the same purpose, but the math would be
a bit more complicated.

When I first started on sci.physics I thought the magnetic field was
real. 'The Feynman Lectures' and 'Introduction to Electrodynamics' were
recommended concerning this aspect of physics. It can all be explained*
with the relativistic motion of charge. What turns out to be a very
simple concept once you get the stuff into your head. From what I've
heard, why we don't call it 'electromagnetics' anymore.

Once I ditched my 'cult cargo', physics became so much more interesting
and mysterious.

*There is still the Aharonov-Bohm effect, which I have yet to understand
properly. But the 'B' field does not necessarily come into play other
than mathematically, FWIU.
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eeyore wrote:
As he was looking in the mirror one morning.
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Green said:
Eeyore wrote:





Why are the lines always depicted as pointing from north to south?
Its a reference.

Same thing as the old Left and right hand rule..

Got to start some where.! :)
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Green Xenon said:
Why are the lines always depicted as pointing from north to south?

It's merely a convention as it is with the 'direction' of conventional current
flow.

You can find ALL this stuff in BASIC books on electromagnetism, which I suggest
you study. Alos, if you have BASIC questions then post them in BASIC groups.

Graham
 
R

RP

Jan 1, 1970
0
When I first started on sci.physics I thought the magnetic field was
real. 'The Feynman Lectures' and 'Introduction to Electrodynamics' were
recommended concerning this aspect of physics. It can all be explained*
with the relativistic motion of charge. What turns out to be a very
simple concept once you get the stuff into your head. From what I've
heard, why we don't call it 'electromagnetics' anymore.

Once I ditched my 'cult cargo', physics became so much more interesting
and mysterious.

*There is still the Aharonov-Bohm effect, which I have yet to understand
properly. But the 'B' field does not necessarily come into play other
than mathematically, FWIU.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Aharonov-Bohm effect is easily explained in the context of
Weberian electrodynamics. The field outside of an ideal solenoid is
not nulled by superpostion of the fields of the current elements ds
around the loop. The law of Biot-Savart is simply incorrect. By
reducing the solenoid to current elements "ds", and then further
breaking these down into positive and negative components of charge
and then integrating over the components of charge in the elements,
the symmetry assumed by Maxwell simply isn't there. The positive
charges remain stationary while the negative charges are drifting
along the conductor. This motion of the electrons wrt an external
point charge in itself produces an "effective" increase in the Coulomb
charge of the drifting electrons. (see Purcell for essentially the
same model that Weber published, but disregard his equal and opposite
flow of positve charges, or in other words Maxwell's assumed
symmetry).

The increase in the effective charge of the drifting electrons is
velocity dependent, rising to maximum when the external charge is
moving counter to the flow that is occuring at the near side of the
coil. The electrons drifting along the opposite side of the coil do
not cancel this force because these electrons are also moving wrt the
point charge, thus they appear to have a greater Coulomb charge as
well. The coil appears to be net negative wrt an external charge,
regardless of the motion of the external charge, but the magnitude of
the effective increase in Coulomb charge is dependent upon the
direction of motion of the external charge and upon its speed, i.e. it
is a velocity dependent effect which gives rise to an illusion that a
magnetic field is acting outside of the solenoid when in fact the
field isn't a magnetic field. It is instead a velocity dependent E
field. The protons also extend a velocity dependent E field, but due
to the assymetry in the relative motions its contribution is less and
due to the geometry of the
relativistic force produced by this component of charge cancels out
leaving an apparent net negative charge of the solenoid as a whole.

By placing a solenoid between the two slits of a diffraction grating
the phase of the passing electron is shifted simply because the
rotational sense of the drifting electrons within the coil are not
symetric wrt the slits. The force will be greater on the electron as
it passes through the slit in which the drifting electrons closer to
it are moving counter to the motion of the electron passing through
the slit. The force on the passing electron will be less through the
other slit. The interference pattern is thus shifted to the right or
left depending upon orientation of the solenoid.
 
B

Benj

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why are the lines always depicted as pointing from north to south?

Because we say so! Next question?

Hey Radium, great to have your inane posts back in the group! Man,
it's been SO dull around here without you stirring the pot!
 
B

Benj

Jan 1, 1970
0
"However, the AB effect is proof for my theorem that motes/whits are
almost infinitely-big: "
I'm sure surprised to hear that motes/whits are almost infinitely-big,
but then what to I know?
 
B

Benj

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Aharonov-Bohm effect is easily explained in the context of
Weberian electrodynamics. The field outside of an ideal solenoid is
not nulled by superpostion of the fields of the current elements ds
around the loop. The law of Biot-Savart is simply incorrect.

So the Biot-Savart law is "simply incorrect", huh?
But what does that say about whits/motes?
By placing a solenoid between the two slits of a diffraction grating
the phase of the passing electron is shifted simply because the
rotational sense of the drifting electrons within the coil are not
symetric wrt the slits. The force will be greater on the electron as
it passes through the slit in which the drifting electrons closer to
it are moving counter to the motion of the electron passing through
the slit. The force on the passing electron will be less through the
other slit. The interference pattern is thus shifted to the right or
left depending upon orientation of the solenoid.


Great theory! Too bad the actual experiment isn't done with
solenoids.
 
M

Michael Moroney

Jan 1, 1970
0
Green Xenon said:
Eeyore wrote:


Why are the lines always depicted as pointing from north to south?

Convention.

Why is current represented as flowing from positive to negative, even
though we all know electrons flow from negative to positive?

Convention.
 
Bill said:
There is zero evidence for silly semantics like 'Southern magnetic energy is
emitted from the side of a magnet taking in the lines of force'.

Look at the visualizations in the following links [look at the arrows on
the magnetic field lines] :

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node92.html

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter1/1i.htm

As you can see the magnetic lines depict the magnetic force being
carried from north to south.

The Earth's "South" pole is really the North, while the "North" pole is
actually the South because of this reason.

Quotes fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_South_Pole:

"The Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically actually a magnetic north
pole"

Quotes fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_North_Pole:

"Conversely, the Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically a magnetic
north pole"

Quotes fromhttp://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=404:

"the magnetic field lines go out of the magnetic North pole and head
towards the South pole"

See what I mean?
Relating
it self evident trivial statements like 'that negative electrodes give out
electrons', as if it was some great insight, simply compounds the
irrelevancy.

How so? Electrons are negatively charged so they move away from negative
electrodes to positive electrodes. Similarly, "magnetons" [the particles
carrying magnetic energy] are "northly-charged", hence they move away
from north-side of the magnet towards to south-side.

So,

Positive charge in electricity = Southern "charge" in magnetism

Negative charge in electricity = Northern "charge" in magnetism

It's an analogy.

The point that you evidently miss is that there are no charges in
magnetism.

I'd suggest that you read a quality textbook on the subject, since you
appear to be laboring under vast misconceptions.

A magnetic field is something that simply exists, often between the
poles of a magnet, and sometimes without a magnet even being present.
It's in no way suggests a flow of enegy from one pole of the magnet to
another, and the concept of lines of force are simply a theoretical
abstation that mostly demonstrates magnetic field intensity existing,
not energy.

Magnetic fields are present in all electromagnetic waves. James Clerk
Maxwell precisely expained this in his theory, Cutting to the chase
without the use of Calculus, this simply means that a time varying
electric field produces a corresponding time varying magnetic field,
and electromagnetic waves in free space are the result. It's not
exactly rocket science (well, maybe it is), but this knowledge has
been available for over 100 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clerk_Maxwell

It may be well for you to familiarize yourself with what knowledge is
already known, before speculating on silly ideas.

Harry C.
 
G

Green Xenon [Radium]

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bill said:
There is zero evidence for silly semantics like 'Southern magnetic energy is
emitted from the side of a magnet taking in the lines of force'.

Look at the visualizations in the following links [look at the arrows on
the magnetic field lines] :

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node92.html

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter1/1i.htm

As you can see the magnetic lines depict the magnetic force being
carried from north to south.

The Earth's "South" pole is really the North, while the "North" pole is
actually the South because of this reason.

Quotes fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_South_Pole:

"The Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically actually a magnetic north
pole"

Quotes fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_North_Pole:

"Conversely, the Earth's South Magnetic Pole is physically a magnetic
north pole"

Quotes fromhttp://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=404:

"the magnetic field lines go out of the magnetic North pole and head
towards the South pole"

See what I mean?

Relating
it self evident trivial statements like 'that negative electrodes give out
electrons', as if it was some great insight, simply compounds the
irrelevancy.

How so? Electrons are negatively charged so they move away from negative
electrodes to positive electrodes. Similarly, "magnetons" [the particles
carrying magnetic energy] are "northly-charged", hence they move away
from north-side of the magnet towards to south-side.

So,

Positive charge in electricity = Southern "charge" in magnetism

Negative charge in electricity = Northern "charge" in magnetism

It's an analogy.


The point that you evidently miss is that there are no charges in
magnetism.

I'd suggest that you read a quality textbook on the subject, since you
appear to be laboring under vast misconceptions.

A magnetic field is something that simply exists, often between the
poles of a magnet, and sometimes without a magnet even being present.
It's in no way suggests a flow of enegy from one pole of the magnet to
another, and the concept of lines of force are simply a theoretical
abstation that mostly demonstrates magnetic field intensity existing,
not energy.

Magnetic fields are present in all electromagnetic waves. James Clerk
Maxwell precisely expained this in his theory, Cutting to the chase
without the use of Calculus, this simply means that a time varying
electric field produces a corresponding time varying magnetic field,
and electromagnetic waves in free space are the result. It's not
exactly rocket science (well, maybe it is), but this knowledge has
been available for over 100 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clerk_Maxwell

It may be well for you to familiarize yourself with what knowledge is
already known, before speculating on silly ideas.

Harry C.

I was already aware that magnetic monopoles don't exist and that if you
chop a big magnet into smaller magnet pieces, you will still get only
dipoles -- no monopoles at all.

I was just wondering why magnets were depicted with arrows pointing from
the north to the south. To me it looked similar to an electric path
consisting of electrons flowing from the negative to positive.
 
R

RP

Jan 1, 1970
0
So the Biot-Savart law is "simply incorrect", huh?
But what does that say about whits/motes?


Great theory! Too bad the actual experiment isn't done with
solenoids.

You must be referring to a different experiment. If you don't mind
provide some references, because everything I've read on the subject
says that the decisive experiment that proved the effect involves a
solenoid situated bewteen two slits through with electrons are
accelerated.
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was just wondering why magnets were depicted with arrows pointing from
the north to the south. To me it looked similar to an electric path
consisting of electrons flowing from the negative to positive.

---
Hmmm...

This may be where you belong:

http://www.josephnewman.com/
 
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