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some questions about high precesion constant current source

E

eehinjor

Jan 1, 1970
0
hi,everybody. I have some questions about hight precesion constant
current source.My goal is 1uA whose error is blow 0.01%. In my circuit
I used a op-amp,p-mosfet and 5V voltage reference. But the result is so
bad,the error is almost 1%. Could somebody give me some hints? Thanks
very much. eehinjor
 
Have you got a a 10R resistor in series with the gate of the MOSFET,
mounted fairly close to it?

MOSFETs have a nasty habit of oscillating at a few hundred MHz - fast
enough that a cheap oscilliscope won't see it - and this can invalidate
a DC analysis of the circuit. In particular, the inputs of the op amp
will tend to follow the peak of the AC envelope of the signal they are
looking at at, rather than the average, and this can look like an
out-of-spec input offset voltage.

A "gate stopper" somewhere between ten and a few hundred ohms usually
kills this sort of oscillation. At Cambridge Instruments, we had enough
trouble with oscillating MOSFETs that the 10R gate resistor was
compulsory.

It wasn't always necessary, and sometimes 10R wasn't enough, but at
least we always had space on the printed circuit board to fit a gate
stopper resistor if we needed one.
 
eehinjor said:
hi,everybody. I have some questions about hight precesion constant
current source.My goal is 1uA whose error is blow 0.01%. In my circuit
I used a op-amp,p-mosfet and 5V voltage reference. But the result is so
bad,the error is almost 1%. Could somebody give me some hints? Thanks
very much. eehinjor

What exactly do you mean by error of 1%? I assume you have a variable
resistor somwhere in your circuit to trim the output current.
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill said:
All this said, I'd prefer to use a BJT over a MOSFET in this
application, because its high gate capacitance slows circuit
response at low currents.

How about switching to a device like the 3N163?
Ciss is only about 2.5pF on them. The Cds is in about the same range.
This would make for less frequency roll off problems. If you really want
to go fast, you can AC boostrap the substrate on them.
 
T

Tony Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken Smith said:
I'd pull from the op-amp to the +12V not ground. You don't want
noise from the power supply to be able to get near the VGS
voltage of the power MOSFET.

OK.... wouldn't argue with that.
 
E

eehinjor

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,Tony.

I think there is some difference between two ways.

In fact,we must differ -12v from ground in this circuit.

Today I found a strange thing,Vs=6.97V,Vg=6.35(the mosfet is
VP0610l)
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield said:
Nah. First, there's nothing wrong with running MOSFETs in the
subthreshold region - they work fine (it's the typical spice
subthreshold MOSFET model that fails to work properly). Second,
the transconductance/current ratio actually improves for MOSFETs
in the subthreshold region, approaching BJTs in many cases, so
that argument is wrong. Third, typical leakage for these small
MOSFETs is in the low pA region, not 100s of nA, for Vds drain
voltages below 80% of Vdss, which = 30 to 40V for these parts.
Fourth, any Ids leakage current is part of the current-source
output, measured by the servo, so contributes NO error anyway,
unless the leakage exceeds the desired current. So 100nA would
be fine in a 1uA current source.

I don't believe that for a minute- this MOSFET is leaky as a sieve. They
specify Vgs(th) at Id=1mA, which is much higher than most, the gate body
leakage Igss is bounded by 10nA, and the Idss at Vds=25V is bounded by
0.5uA. One aspect of this you have not considered is that these numbers
are on the order of 100x to 1000x the specified error band of 100pA at
1uA source current. These leakage currents will all have components of
some unknown proportion that exhibit standard deviations not governed by
the usual shot- and Johnson- noise distributions, so that it is
unreasonable for you to discard a complete unknown as being 40 to 60 dB
down from the mean when you have so little information. If the regulated
current is in fact exhibiting the flicker described, then it has to be
related to this ratio of allowed variation to average leakage
magnitudes- you cannot expect reliable performance with arbitrarily
small errors.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
eehinjor wrote...
Today I found a strange thing, Vs=6.97V, Vg=6.35
(the mosfet is VP0610l)

Why do you consider that to be strange? Was that
for your 1uA or 10uA range? If you look at figure
3.14 in AoE, you'll see that MOSFET gate voltages
are pretty low for < 1mA sub-threshold operation. An
observed Vgs of 0.6V would be low, but not amazing.
 
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