Tantalum update - part 2

[Ted Wilson]

A number of you expressed an interest in the outcome of my search for
an alternative to the solid tantalums that we've had so many problems
with, so here is an update as promised.

Whilst MLCCs looked promising at first, their susceptibility to failure
during soldering and under vibration and thermal stress has effectively
excluded them for our application.

I couldn't find polymer tants at a higher working voltage than 25V, so
the choice came down to either solid polymer aluminiums or Multi-Layer
Polymers. Based on data gleaned from the net, I've opted for MPLs,
subject to us being able to procure them to the requisite spec. These
parts claim to have very low esr, formidable ripple-current rating,
'true' voltage rating that doesn't require derating to achieve
reliability and no aging mechanism.

As I stated earlier, the performance of the tantalums in our
application is dominated by their esr limitations, (110m-ohms), and we
can achieve the required performance in our application with a total
capacitance of only 100uF if the esr of the replacements is
sufficiently low. (Quite an interesting calculation involved to derive
that - peak dV/dt ripple doesn't occur at peak current).

Paktron's 10uF/50V CS4 Capsticks have an esr in the low m-ohms at our
operating frequency and occupy slightly less board area than the
tantalums they are to replace, so we will have room for ten of them to
give the required 100uF. (We shall keep some, if not all, of the
ceramics in parallel to handle the higher frequencies - as I have
already said, we have had very little trouble with them). I've been in
touch with Paktron in the States and they are sending some samples.

On a general note, tantalums have been around for decades and have
always been used for supply filtering/decoupling in the military
environment where significant amounts of capacitance is required, so I
find it somewhat surprising that tantalum manufacturers haven't
sorted out the problems with their reliability by now. The problems we
have fallen foul of can't be peculiar to us, so I hope some of these
discussions have been of benefit to others out there.

Once again, thanks to all who contributed.

Regards

Ted Wilson

 

[Mike Monett]

A number of you expressed an interest in the outcome of my search for
an alternative to the solid tantalums that we've had so many problems
with, so here is an update as promised.

[... for brevity]

Once again, thanks to all who contributed.

Regards

Ted Wilson

Thanks very much for the good info, Ted. Please let us know the results
of your tests.

Mike Monett

 

[Ted Wilson]

I managed to forget to mention one of the most important features of
the MLPs - they don't fail short-circuit. In a system where there is a
number of parts in parallel, this is a very significant advantage.

Ted

 

[John Larkin]

On a general note, tantalums have been around for decades and have
always been used for supply filtering/decoupling in the military
environment where significant amounts of capacitance is required, so I
find it somewhat surprising that tantalum manufacturers haven't
sorted out the problems with their reliability by now. The problems we
have fallen foul of can't be peculiar to us, so I hope some of these
discussions have been of benefit to others out there.

The classis mil tantalum was a wet-slug, which doesn't have the nasty
failure mechanism of MnO2 dry-slugs.


John

 

[Graham Holloway]

The classis mil tantalum was a wet-slug, which doesn't have the nasty
failure mechanism of MnO2 dry-slugs.


John

John

I consider a small explosion to be classed as a "nasty failure mechanism".
Witnessed in final testing of an airliner autopilot some years ago.

Subsequently witnessed en masse with some military computers on final
Environmental Stress Screening when some idiot connected them to 200V Ph-Ph
instead of 115V Ph-N.

In both cases a lot of damage was done to surrounding circuits, PCB's and
chassis.


Graham Holloway

 

[Richard Henry]

John

I consider a small explosion to be classed as a "nasty failure mechanism".
Witnessed in final testing of an airliner autopilot some years ago.

Subsequently witnessed en masse with some military computers on final
Environmental Stress Screening when some idiot connected them to 200V Ph-Ph
instead of 115V Ph-N.

In both cases a lot of damage was done to surrounding circuits, PCB's and
chassis.

I was attempting to repair a board which included a little DC-DC converter
with a tantalum cap on the front end, which had been mistakenly connected to
28V instead of the expected 12V. I was placing DMM leads on various points
while the program manager bent over my shoulder, closely examining my
technique. Suddenly one of the tantalum caps lit off, and burned like a
matchhead to completion. I was more started by the shout in my ear than by
the smoke and fire.

We found him later in his office.

 

[John Larkin]

John

I consider a small explosion to be classed as a "nasty failure mechanism".
Witnessed in final testing of an airliner autopilot some years ago.

Subsequently witnessed en masse with some military computers on final
Environmental Stress Screening when some idiot connected them to 200V Ph-Ph
instead of 115V Ph-N.

In both cases a lot of damage was done to surrounding circuits, PCB's and
chassis.


Graham Holloway

Sure, if you pump enough energy into any part you can get it to
explode. But an MnO2 tantalum has explosive power gain; millijoules of
energy can start a chemical reaction that blows it to bits. A wet-slug
can only deliver as much explosive energy as the circuit pumps into
it.

John

 

[Jon]

A number of you expressed an interest in the outcome of my search for
an alternative to the solid tantalums that we've had so many problems
with, so here is an update as promised.

Whilst MLCCs looked promising at first, their susceptibility to failure
during soldering and under vibration and thermal stress has effectively
excluded them for our application.

I couldn't find polymer tants at a higher working voltage than 25V, so
the choice came down to either solid polymer aluminiums or Multi-Layer
Polymers. Based on data gleaned from the net, I've opted for MPLs,
subject to us being able to procure them to the requisite spec. These
parts claim to have very low esr, formidable ripple-current rating,
'true' voltage rating that doesn't require derating to achieve
reliability and no aging mechanism.

As I stated earlier, the performance of the tantalums in our
application is dominated by their esr limitations, (110m-ohms), and we
can achieve the required performance in our application with a total
capacitance of only 100uF if the esr of the replacements is
sufficiently low. (Quite an interesting calculation involved to derive
that - peak dV/dt ripple doesn't occur at peak current).

Paktron's 10uF/50V CS4 Capsticks have an esr in the low m-ohms at our
operating frequency and occupy slightly less board area than the
tantalums they are to replace, so we will have room for ten of them to
give the required 100uF. (We shall keep some, if not all, of the
ceramics in parallel to handle the higher frequencies - as I have
already said, we have had very little trouble with them). I've been in
touch with Paktron in the States and they are sending some samples.

On a general note, tantalums have been around for decades and have
always been used for supply filtering/decoupling in the military
environment where significant amounts of capacitance is required, so I
find it somewhat surprising that tantalum manufacturers haven't
sorted out the problems with their reliability by now. The problems we
have fallen foul of can't be peculiar to us, so I hope some of these
discussions have been of benefit to others out there.

Once again, thanks to all who contributed.

Regards

Ted Wilson

 

[Jon]

A note on wet slug capacitors: Early wet slugs had siver cases. A
common failure mode was silver migration, in which silver from the case
would migrate into the electrolyte, eventiually causing a catastrophic
short circuit. Wet slug capacitors with tantalum cases are now
available. These capacitors do not exhibit the migration problem, and
are very reliable, but they are very expensive.
..
Another recent alternative to tantalum capacitors is niobium. These
capacitors have characteristics similar to tantalum. They are
available in both solid and wet slug configurations. They have low
ESR. High reliability versions (0.2%/1000hr) are available.

 

[legg]

A number of you expressed an interest in the outcome of my search for
an alternative to the solid tantalums that we've had so many problems
with, so here is an update as promised.

Whilst MLCCs looked promising at first, their susceptibility to failure
during soldering and under vibration and thermal stress has effectively
excluded them for our application.

I couldn't find polymer tants at a higher working voltage than 25V, so
the choice came down to either solid polymer aluminiums or Multi-Layer
Polymers. Based on data gleaned from the net, I've opted for MPLs,
subject to us being able to procure them to the requisite spec. These
parts claim to have very low esr, formidable ripple-current rating,
'true' voltage rating that doesn't require derating to achieve
reliability and no aging mechanism.

As I stated earlier, the performance of the tantalums in our
application is dominated by their esr limitations, (110m-ohms), and we
can achieve the required performance in our application with a total
capacitance of only 100uF if the esr of the replacements is
sufficiently low. (Quite an interesting calculation involved to derive
that - peak dV/dt ripple doesn't occur at peak current).

Paktron's 10uF/50V CS4 Capsticks have an esr in the low m-ohms at our
operating frequency and occupy slightly less board area than the
tantalums they are to replace, so we will have room for ten of them to
give the required 100uF. (We shall keep some, if not all, of the
ceramics in parallel to handle the higher frequencies - as I have
already said, we have had very little trouble with them). I've been in
touch with Paktron in the States and they are sending some samples.

On a general note, tantalums have been around for decades and have
always been used for supply filtering/decoupling in the military
environment where significant amounts of capacitance is required, so I
find it somewhat surprising that tantalum manufacturers haven't
sorted out the problems with their reliability by now. The problems we
have fallen foul of can't be peculiar to us, so I hope some of these
discussions have been of benefit to others out there.

Aren't the low voltage (50-100vdc) part ratings limited to 85degC
operation? The derating for voltage above this temperature is
something like 50% at 125degC, so that's around 37V @105deg.

Your problem is that you're trying to retrofit an smd package size
provide by an original device, the suitability of which was not
practically proven in the application and environment specified.

Wet tantalums in hermetic tantalum axial cases. larger radial ceramics
and axial film caps are typically used in mil and aviation power
conversion devices. Sometimes they require deviation clearances, where
no standard mil-grade devices are available. These will be physically
larger than the parts presently used in your circuit and mechanically
incompatible to the physical layout presently available there.

Your other alternative, of course, was to identify the fault-inducing
stress and to prevent it from occuring.

Patient - "Doctor, my caps blow up when I do this."
Doctor - " Don't do it."

Changing part package sizes or actual circuitry were not considered
viable options of your retrofit. Testing either option could have gone
part way towards confirming the character of the fault-inducing stress
mechanism. Currently this is only an assumption.

Based on this assumption, you've decided to replace a moderate-ESR
large-C filtering component with a low-ESR small-C one - something
that may invalidate a signifigant proportion of your previous design
verification record.

Add-on circuitry or similar part type substitutions need not do this,
particularly if their failure modes simply duplicate previously known
conditions (series dv/dt limiters become short etc)

RL

 

[Ted Wilson]

[snip]

Aren't the low voltage (50-100vdc) part ratings limited to 85degC
operation? The derating for voltage above this temperature is
something like 50% at 125degC, so that's around 37V @105deg.

Yes, the 50V parts derate at 1.25%/deg C above +85C. Ours is a cockpit
application, so upper operating temperature is +70C. Allowing for internal
heating, this brings our maximum operating temperature up to about +80C, so
I don't consider this an issue.

Your problem is that you're trying to retrofit an smd package size
provide by an original device, the suitability of which was not
practically proven in the application and environment specified.

(For the record, the SFE parts are through-hole). Regarding the suitability
of the devices for our application, they are specifically aimed at the area
in which we have used them and, amongst other things, their technical spec
states:

"In the past problems have arisen with the use of solid tantalum capacitors
in low impedance circuits only obviated by the use of protective resistors
in series. New techniques, burn-in and test procedures enable the SF and
SFE ranges to be used confidently without such protection, thus considerably
increasing circuit design possibilities".

Wet tantalums in hermetic tantalum axial cases. larger radial ceramics
and axial film caps are typically used in mil and aviation power
conversion devices. Sometimes they require deviation clearances, where
no standard mil-grade devices are available. These will be physically
larger than the parts presently used in your circuit and mechanically
incompatible to the physical layout presently available there.

As is so often the situation in military designs, space is at a premium, so
we do not have the luxury of using some of the more bulky, but more robust
devices that are available - a colleague has identified some
'Supermatallized Polypropylene' parts that look ideal, but we would have to
have a separate bolt-on box to put them in.

Your other alternative, of course, was to identify the fault-inducing
stress and to prevent it from occuring.

Patient - "Doctor, my caps blow up when I do this."
Doctor - " Don't do it."

We have investigated this problem ad-nausium and much of our investigation
is described in my original thread.

Numerous failed parts have been returned to Arcotronic for analysis and the
extent of their input has been to confirm that, 'yes, these parts have
indeed gone short circuit'.

An Acotronic FAX to BAE on the subject says:

"There is no apparent common failure mode either by date or region of the
internal anode where degradation/short-circuiting occurs. The application
appears benign in terms of the environmental/electrical stress on the
component, both voltage and temperature are well within parametric maxima."

The parts are comfortably derated in terms of operating voltage, being 63V
parts running at nominally 28V and our operating temperature range is within
the +85 deg C at which voltage derating starts to apply.

The one area that might have been considered marginal is ripple current
rating: 2.7A rms per cap @ 20C, derating to around 1.75A rms @ +80C.

Our peak ripple current requirement is a 20A rectangular current waveform,
so at +80C, nine caps sharing this peak curent would indeed be overated -
and that's without taking current-sharing into consideration.

However, the issue with ripple current is entirely one of heating within the
cap. Our peak requirement has a maximum duration of around 10 to 15ms, with
a background current ripple less than 0.5A between the 9 caps.

The absolute maximum, (and operationally bizzare), duty cycle for the peak
requirement would be of the order of 2%.

Furthermore, not one of our failures has occured during the high ripple
current events, but have always been associated with testing at elevated
voltage, albeit still comfortably within the voltage rating of the parts.
We have also taken steps to reduce inrush current during supply voltage
transitions, but with no noticeable reduction in the rate of failures.

The point at which I lost faith in the SFEs was when we tested a batch of
unused parts by charging to 60V through a 10k-ohm resistor.

Short of leaving the damned things in their box, I can't think of a much
more benign test regime, but around 2% of the parts tested, (which
incidently is about the same as the failure rate we get in use), went
spuriously short-circuit at some point during the charging and then
recovered and recommenced charging up to the 60V. On several units, the
shorts occured numerous times at progressively higher voltages until the
unit finally charged to 60V. Once these units had charged to 60V, the fault
could not be repeated. (I have numerous plots of these failures, but they
are far too bulky to stick on here as an attachement).

We have since had Arcotronic introduce additional screening along similar
lines, but again with no discernable improvement in failure rate during use.

Changing part package sizes or actual circuitry were not considered
viable options of your retrofit. Testing either option could have gone
part way towards confirming the character of the fault-inducing stress
mechanism. Currently this is only an assumption.

The 'D' case is the largest package in the SFE range, but we don't have room
for a larger package anyway, so I'm obliged to use a part that will fit in
our limited space.

I submit that, on the basis of all the evidence, it is the Arcotronic SFE
parts that are the problem, not the manner in which we are using them.

Based on this assumption, you've decided to replace a moderate-ESR
large-C filtering component with a low-ESR small-C one - something
that may invalidate a signifigant proportion of your previous design
verification record.

The issue with the supply reservoir was always one of impedance to the
nominally 80kHz, bi-directional, rectangular PWM current waveform, the
requirement being to reduce supply voltage ripple within the equipment to a
level at which the series inductor in the +28V line can keep exported
current ripple on the 28V supply to within prescribed limits.

As I have stated at several points in the original thread, it was the esr of
the SFEs that dominated the supply voltage ripple due to PWM current, not
the dV/dt component, therefore a part with significantly lower esr will not
require as much capacitance to achieve the required result.

We will obviously conduct tests to confirm this on the bench, but I believe
I can put forward a solid case for Qualification by Anaology with the
previous design on this count.

Add-on circuitry or similar part type substitutions need not do this,
particularly if their failure modes simply duplicate previously known
conditions (series dv/dt limiters become short etc)

Not sure what you're getting at here. I'm not proposing that we introduce
add-on circuitry, (although I was thinking about it at one stage when we
considering using the Solid Polymer Aluminium parts, with their o/c failure
mode). On all the evidence available, the MLP parts do not suffer anything
remotely like the failure modes we've seen with the SFEs.

That said, since posting this update, I've received an e-mail from someone
who's been following the thread, indicating that there are problems specific
to the proposed MLPs under some environmental conditions that may well mean
we can't use them. I'm currently looking at a suggested alternative
manufacturer's MLP which does not have this problem. (If anyone wants
further details, contact me direct by e-mail).

RL

Thank you for your observations and comments - usefully thought provoking.
It's always a good idea to re-evaluate earlier decisions in a situation such
as this.

--
Ted Wilson
Senior Circuit Design Engineer
BAE Warton

[email protected]

"The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in
fishing."

 

[Joerg]

Hello Ted,

The issue with the supply reservoir was always one of impedance to the
nominally 80kHz, bi-directional, rectangular PWM current waveform, the
requirement being to reduce supply voltage ripple within the equipment to a
level at which the series inductor in the +28V line can keep exported
current ripple on the 28V supply to within prescribed limits.

If ripple export is the concern, just a thought: Do you have headroom in
the thermal and power consumption budget? If so, maybe you could use
active ripple cancellation. Essentially these would be transistors that
add load during phases where the unit doesn't draw full load. I know
that this wastes energy but it has worked nicely in applications where
conducted noise was the issue. In our case it was mostly noise caused by
RAM banking.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Ted Wilson]

Hello Ted,


If ripple export is the concern, just a thought: Do you have headroom in
the thermal and power consumption budget? If so, maybe you could use
active ripple cancellation. Essentially these would be transistors that
add load during phases where the unit doesn't draw full load. I know
that this wastes energy but it has worked nicely in applications where
conducted noise was the issue. In our case it was mostly noise caused by
RAM banking.

Regards, Joerg

Hello Joerg

We're limited by a mean supply current requirement, so we don't have a lot
of headroom when it comes to wasting current and, on the face of it, with
20A peak winding currents, this approach does not look viable.

If I were starting again from scratch, I would have a long hard think about
possible alternative approaches, but that's not an option here - all I have
room to do is find ways of making the existing design more robust, whilst in
the process of addressing several obsolescence issues.

That said, I've reviewed the design many times now, in the light of these
problems, and I don't see anything wrong with the approach I have adopted.
We have passed all our qual testing and all that is required for a quiet
life is for the reservoir caps to do their job without failing.

If only life were that simple! :-/

Regards

Ted

--
Ted Wilson
Senior Circuit Design Engineer
BAE Warton

[email protected]

"The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in
fishing."