Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Telephone in use indicator Help

D

Don Bowey

Jan 1, 1970
0
The polarity doesn't change for the duration of the call, but it does
after the far end hangs up. Its called reverse answer supervision. When
you call and an answering machine answers - and then you hangup, the
Central Office momentarily reverses the polarity back towards the called
party and the answering machine knows to hang up.

Where is this feature available (country, telco name) and what is its name?

Don
 
D

DecaturTxCowboy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Where is this feature available (country, telco name) and what is its name?

Pretty much anywhere in U.S. phone companies, been around for as long as
I can remember. I know it worked on the old 1A2 key systems. Not a
feature that you order, per se, but its just the way the system works by
default.
 
D

Don Bowey

Jan 1, 1970
0
I mean disconnect supervision.

Your information is incorrect.

With loop-start and ground-start lines (POTS and most small business lines)
there is no polarity reversal to denote the calling party has hung-up.
Answering sets determine when to hang-up by detecting the absence of
voiceband signals.

Don
 
D

DecaturTxCowboy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don said:
Your information is incorrect.

With loop-start and ground-start lines (POTS and most small business lines)
there is no polarity reversal to denote the calling party has hung-up.
Answering sets determine when to hang-up by detecting the absence of
voiceband signals.

Nope, THAT is absolutely incorrect. The absence of any voice band signal
is rarely used as the primary means of determining the call has ended,
but is used as a fallback.

The telco will send a Calling Party Disconnect (CPD) signal. This will
be a momentary battery reversal or a momentary drop of loop current.

Battery reversal is on its way out as no FCC registered equipment is
required to recognize it, but drop of loop current is very much here.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nope, THAT is absolutely incorrect. The absence of any voice band signal
is rarely used as the primary means of determining the call has ended,
but is used as a fallback.

The telco will send a Calling Party Disconnect (CPD) signal. This will
be a momentary battery reversal or a momentary drop of loop current.

Battery reversal is on its way out as no FCC registered equipment is
required to recognize it, but drop of loop current is very much here.

I once had an answering machine that would turn itself off when I picked
up the extension.

Cheers!
Rich
 
D

DecaturTxCowboy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
I once had an answering machine that would turn itself off when I picked
up the extension.

That's because it sensed the voltage drop when another phone went off-hook.
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks I guess that waht I will have to do.
Yes the glow is faint. I turn off the light int he room Im in and there
it is glowing. I have tried various resistors in various places of
various sizes. I can reduce it but not get rid of it completely.

maybe it could be an RF source?

try a capacitor (0.1uF ceramic) in addition to a resistor in
parallel with the LED.

Bye.
Jasen
 
S

steve

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hey thanks. I will give it a try. Hate to toss out something Ive
already put together.

By the way Im not exactly sure how this works. If anyone is able to
give a quick overview of how its suppose to work.Im a little confused
(novice) on what the first transister does connected to the phone line.
thanks.
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
steve said:
Hey thanks. I will give it a try. Hate to toss out something Ive
already put together.

By the way Im not exactly sure how this works. If anyone is able to
give a quick overview of how its suppose to work.Im a little confused
(novice) on what the first transister does connected to the phone line.
thanks.
When the phone is on hook, the base of the first transistor
is a little over +1 volt, so the transistor is biased on.
That places ground on the emitter of the second transistor,
which is a PNP, so it is biased off. With the second transistor
off, the cap can't charge and the 3rd transistor is not turned
on. When the phone is lifted, the first transistor is off,
which removes the ground from the 2nd transistor emitter.
Current from the battery through the led and the 1meg resistor
charges the cap - when it rises to about .6V higher than the
base of transistor 2, the transistor is biased on, which in
turn biases the last transistor on. That provides a path
for ~ 40 mA current to light the LED. The cap discharges
into the base of the 3rd transistor, biasing the second
transistor off and the cycle repeats.

There are two high resistance paths that drain the battery
when the phone is on hook. The combination of the 1 meg and
2.2 meg resistors connect to the base of transistor 2 is
one path. The second is through the other 1 meg resistor
and the first transistor, which is biased on by the phone
being on hook. You need a different circuit if you want
to avoid draining the battery. This one will draw around
10 uA with the phone on hook - and earlier experiments
showed you can see the glow at only about 3 uA.
(I'm still scratching my head over that. You must have
good eyes!)

Do you have a DMM that has a uA scale? It would be a
good idea to measure the draw from the battery with the
phone on hook. If it is only ~ 10 uA, it's really not
worth going to a different circuit. A typical 9V battery
should last a long time if you don't use the phone.
Where this circuit really uses current is when the phone
is off hook. In rough numbers, a 1 minute phone call
burns up as much battery life as 33 *hours* of the phone
being on hook. You ought to be able to see the LED easily
at ~2 mA instead of 40 mA. That would reduce the off hook
battery drain by a factor of 20 - which is well worth
doing. To do that, change the 180 ohm resistor to a 3.3K
and see if it glows brightly enough for you with the phone
off hook.

Ed
 
D

DecaturTxCowboy

Jan 1, 1970
0
steve said:
I have made the circuit at the link below.

http://www.techlib.com/electronics/telephone.html
What can I do to stop it from glowing and using up the battery. I tried
to put a 500 ohm resister just after the LED between the LED and
positive eg LED --[500]--+ . This did not change anything.
Also is it right that when the circuit is not connected to the phone
system but the battery installed that the LED blinks. It stops blinking
when I hook it up to the phone system (it just glows a little)

I'd use a better and simpler circuit. But looking that this one, you
said there is no glow when the 2N4401 is out of the circuit - that means
you're not getting leakage through it. Looks like it might be leaking
through the 1M and 2.2M resistors between the 2N4403 and MPSA-18
transistors.

So, on to a better circuit.

GND + V + V
| | |
| X 47Kohm X 47Kohm
| X X
| | |----- > Goes
| | | low
| | |/ when
| 0---------| off-hook
| | |\ emitter
| | |
o----------|<--------------o | GND
| \\ |
Tip ---)---0------|<----------o---)-----------------------
| | - LED + | |
| | Optoisolator #1 | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |------>|----------| |
| Bypass diode |
| |
| |
| |
|----------|<--------------|
//
Ring -------o------>|----------o---------------------------
| - LED + |
| Optoisolator #1 |
| |
| |
|------>|----------|
Bypass diode
 
S

steve

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks. I'll try your suggestions. My meter does 200 and 20 M. ( I
asume is Ma)
I tryed to test it but it the glow does not register. When it flashed
its about .22 -.18 M. Tested in series of course. You may be right a
larger R. may reduce the loss a bit and still last some time.

Regards
 
Top