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Telephone line no noise

A

Allen Bong

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why are good telephone lines running miles of cables don't pick up much
noise along it's way to the telephone while it is hard to send data between
two computers when they are a few hundred feet apart? What's the catch?

Allen
 
M

Michael Black

Jan 1, 1970
0
Baphomet" ([email protected]) said:
Allen -

I'm a bit out of my depth but let's give it a whack anyway. Convention
copper telephone lines run 600 ohm balanced, and are voice bandwith limited.
Computer lines are unbalanced with respect to ground, and have high
bandwidth to accomodate the very fast rise and fall times of digital
signals. If I've stepped in "it" with this response, please accept my
apologies :)
And of course, voice is terribly redundant. Miss a microsecond here
or there, and likely the receiver will still understand what is said.
Even a whole word can be missed (provided it's not a key word) and
the message can still be understood.

Get a bit of noise on a digital line, and it can throw off significant
bits of data. Unless extra data and extra error checking is in place,
you can't make up for messed data.

Michael
 
B

Baphomet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Allen Bong said:
Why are good telephone lines running miles of cables don't pick up much
noise along it's way to the telephone while it is hard to send data between
two computers when they are a few hundred feet apart? What's the catch?

Allen -

I'm a bit out of my depth but let's give it a whack anyway. Convention
copper telephone lines run 600 ohm balanced, and are voice bandwith limited.
Computer lines are unbalanced with respect to ground, and have high
bandwidth to accomodate the very fast rise and fall times of digital
signals. If I've stepped in "it" with this response, please accept my
apologies :)
 
A

Allen Bong

Jan 1, 1970
0
Baphomet said:
Allen -

I'm a bit out of my depth but let's give it a whack anyway. Convention
copper telephone lines run 600 ohm balanced, and are voice bandwith limited.
Computer lines are unbalanced with respect to ground, and have high
bandwidth to accomodate the very fast rise and fall times of digital
signals. If I've stepped in "it" with this response, please accept my
apologies :)

You don't have to apologise for anything. I think you explained it very
well. The catch is the "low bandwidth of the telephone line" and the "600
ohm balanced circuit" design and the "tolorance allowed by the receiving
end". What is the actual bandwidth allowed by a typical telephone line?

If I reduce the baud rate of the transmission and use balanced protocol like
RS422/RS485 would I be able to go a few hundred feet between 2 computers?

Allen.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Allen said:
You don't have to apologise for anything. I think you explained it very
well. The catch is the "low bandwidth of the telephone line" and the "600
ohm balanced circuit" design and the "tolorance allowed by the receiving
end". What is the actual bandwidth allowed by a typical telephone line?

If I reduce the baud rate of the transmission and use balanced protocol like
RS422/RS485 would I be able to go a few hundred feet between 2 computers?

Allen.

Yes, RS-422 will go several thousand feet at a low Baud rate, if the
line is properly terminated. Check the National Semiconductor website
for application notes on RS-422.

http://www.national.com/ is the home page.

http://www.national.com/apnotes/ is the search page for their
application notes.

http://www.national.com/apnotes/apnotes_all_1.html lists all their
application notes.

Here is a list of serial communications related application notes
available from National Semiconductor.

AN-214
AN-409
AN-438
AN-457
AN-702
AN-759
AN-806
AN-807
AN-808
AN-914
AN-916
AN-979
AN-1031
 
B

bg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Differential drivers and receivers are readily available and cheap that will
reduce line induced noise by a hundred , a thousand or more times.(+/- .2
volt time 100 is alot of noise!!) Your friends needs would not be hard to
accomplish. Do a google search for balanced lines, common mode rejection
etc.
bg
 
A

Allen Bong

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thank you very much Michael. Now I know I have enough evidence to convince
my friend. And thanks to those who teach me the differences between a
telephone line and a digital line.

Allen.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Allen said:
Thank you very much Michael. Now I know I have enough evidence to convince
my friend. And thanks to those who teach me the differences between a
telephone line and a digital line.

Allen.

You're welcome, and I hope you don't get lost reading all those
application notes! ;-)
 
D

Darren Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Allen Bong said:
Why are good telephone lines running miles of cables don't pick up much
noise along it's way to the telephone while it is hard to send data between
two computers when they are a few hundred feet apart? What's the catch?

I have a huge problem with line noise. After a while windows 98 will
just stop loading pages from the internet as if to say "this is too
difficult". I then have to re-boot my system and try again.

Verizon said they checked the lines outside, but I still have the
problem. When it rains I can hear a great amount of "static", and if I
connect to the inteernet, I'm lucky if I can get as far as one page
before I have to reboot, so I know the problem must have something to
do with moisture.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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