### Network

A

#### AZ1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.
Tubes use heaters.
In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room, and we need to burn less wood
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.
In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.
So tubes are enviro friendly.
Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors, but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.
Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs, and not have to dump the whole Chinese
made impossible to decipher 208 pin flat pack + board + whatever expensive thing it is in.
Tubes give light, some tubes it is even possible to read by in the dark.
The more power the more light.
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them, unlike semi-conductors that just fail and then
Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.
Glass can also be melted again and re-used.
Tubes are easier to manufacture then semi-conthings, no very expensive plants needed.
Tubes allow more profit to be made, for example a bad tube amplifier sells for more then good transistor amplifier.
Tubes are beautiful, the art of glass blowing presents itself in wonderful shapes in tubes.
Unlike trans-sisters, now so small you cannot even see these.
Tubes allow for extra connection on the top, saving on through holes in some designs.
Tubes can be manufactured for much higher power then trans-sisters, tubes are the item of choice in many high power
applications.

M

#### MooseFET

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
Tubes are hot. You burn yourself on them. Transistors are very cool.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.

What you mean "we" paleface? Are you sure the reason isn't that they
look like little phallic symbols.
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

If vacuum is clean, why do they make vacuum cleaners? Answer me that!
Tubes use heaters.

Yes but these heaters are run on 6.3V which is the squareroot of 39.69
and therefor obviously evil.

In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room,

Smart people move to a warm climate.

and we need to burn less wood

When the tubes light the house on fire, a lot of wood gets burned.
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.

Very few house burn coal for heat any more. Coal burning is a dirty
nasty way to make power much like tubes are a dirty nasty way to make
music.

In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.

The same is true of transistors. If you lived in a place that was
We all live in a warmer climate than that, even the foolish ones who
live in the north.

So tubes are enviro friendly.

Tubes cause puppies to die.
Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors,

Those holes let the good sound pass through without effort. Tubes
contain magnetic materials. These lead to distortion.
but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.

They suffocate the sound.
Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs,

You mean "when" not "if". Tubes are all sealed up so you can't use
Draino on them to keep them clear.

[....]
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them,

No they don't. They light up with blue things crawling around inside
and then there is a bright spray inside finally, the side walls melt
and suck in.

E

#### Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
AZ1 said:
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

Big mistake. There's plenty of crap in there. And the amount of crap increases with use.

Graham

D

#### D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Long time ago I picked up this story...Never bothered to get it
confirmed.
Here goes:
Apparently the US takes apart some Russian jet from a defected pilot.
(Sorry.. forgot when I heard this...maybe 20 years ago??)
Lots of tube technology was found in the jet.
The theory being that tubes are more resistant to damage from a
nuclear EMP.
D from BC

P

#### Patrick Turner

Jan 1, 1970
0
AZ1 said:
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.

Er, you'd be wrong. At least every second woman I've met has an icy
heart.
Dunno about you, but I find cold sheilas to be completely unattractive.

However, tubes seem quite able to carefully preserve the warmth of
an acoustic musical event. Some say tubes add warmth, an artifact,
and this can be excessive, like a boring cloying lover.....
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.

But not so simple inside when you examine the messiness of the
cathode emission and the graceless way the electrons hit the anode.

Tubes use heaters.
In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room, and we need to burn less wood
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.

So more pollution from coal burning power stations then occurs elsewhere
out of sight,
out of mind, and the resultant acid rain
kills trees in foreign nations.

But at least you may as well use a tube amp to help warm your room in
winter.
It only helps. My 300 watt amps draw about 550W for each channel
and thus give 1,100 watts of heating, and for someone in a house my size
in a
NY winter, its nowhere near enough heat to stop them freezin their balls
off.

A 5050 amp would only make 200 watts, so its like having only 5 x 40watt
light bulbs on,
and on many nights, I'd have that many lights on. Otherwise I trip over
in the dark.

In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.
So tubes are enviro friendly.

Rubbish, tubes operate with 900C cathodes and operating a tube in
Antartica
uses barely more power than in Jakata.
Tubes are anything but enviro friendly; they are a pollution menace.
However, tube gear is owned now by only 0.01% of the world's audio
listeners,
so they represent a tiny fraction of a large problem.
My house where I live and a house mate the electricity consumption is
an average of about 1 kilowatt hour per hour all day and one wonders
where
it all goes, but life would be uncomfortable below this level.
Using my tube gear is a very small % of the problem, and hot water
and heating are the main problems.

Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors, but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.

But in fact the vacuum inside a tube isn't all that clean.
Lots of dirty big gas molecules whizzing around, and they hasten the
tubes'
ultimate demise.
Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs, and not have to dump the whole Chinese
made impossible to decipher 208 pin flat pack + board + whatever expensive thing it is in.

I'll agree here, service is easier with tube gear but seldom does a tube
replacement
cure a fault; its so often some other darn thing causing a problem.
But if you damage an OPT or PT, expect the repair bill to be high...
The Chinese made new amp may cost a lot less than a tube amp repair job.
Tubes give light, some tubes it is even possible to read by in the dark.

Ambience light, but reading beside 813 tubes isn't for eveyone.
Most tubes most ppl use hardly give any lighting effects.

The more power the more light.
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them, unlike semi-conductors that just fail and then

How many amps have you repaired?

Tube melt-down can be quite a disaster, and can occur before a fuse
blows.

Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.

I have a friend who knows each electron flowing from cathode to anode by
name.

Glass can also be melted again and re-used.

But an EL34 uses far more resources than a power transistor.
Tubes are easier to manufacture then semi-conthings, no very expensive plants needed.

Then how come virtually no tube factories exist in western developed
nations?

OK, WE still makes 300B in the US, but they want $300 each. Where oh where is any sign they are cheap technology? Tubes allow more profit to be made, for example a bad tube amplifier sells for more then good transistor amplifier. It depends where you shop. A 40w+40w stereo amp can be had via direct marketting ex hong kong for usd$500. The same watts from Jolida in stores here
costs
\$3,000, and so if the chinese perfect the bypassing of western middle
men,
who makes any profit?
Tubes are beautiful, the art of glass blowing presents itself in wonderful shapes in tubes.

At least I agree with you here....
Unlike trans-sisters, now so small you cannot even see these.

Have you seen trans-brothers? they are the latest thing in China...
Tubes allow for extra connection on the top, saving on through holes in some designs.

Wrong, a top cap makes a tube more expensive.
Tubes can be manufactured for much higher power then trans-sisters, tubes are the item of choice in many high power
applications.

The Russians developed tubes so big they are about 8 feet tall,
and have halves that unbolt, for service to the cathode and grid
and they are good for a very large rock concert indeed.

In the bad old dark days of the Soviet era, such multi kilowatt tubes
were
used for RF transmissions, often as jamming signals over the top of
western nation
broadcasts because they didn't have rock concerts.
If the Politbureau knew someone they didn't like much,
they'd lead him down to the transmitter undegoing service, and into
the dark of an opened up triode. Without warning they'd
bolt up the tube, apply vacuum and power, and transmit the poor bugger.
Fzzz, and your'e gone, no more politiaski mistakzi.

Patrick Turner.

P

#### Patrick Turner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eeyore said:
Big mistake. There's plenty of crap in there. And the amount of crap increases with use.

Nothing is pure, not even the most genteel virgin you'll ever find.
She's full of tricky plans, and a mish mash of ideas that are mainly
illogical.

And the amount of crap increases with use.

Patrick Turner.

P

#### Peter Wieck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.
That is why we are attracted to tubes as to the other sex.
Tubes are clean, they contain vacuum, completely unpolluted.
Tubes use heaters.
In the cold climate this adds electric heat to the room, and we need to burn less wood
or coal in our houses to keep it warm, reducing pollution near our place.
In the warmer climates less energy is needed to bring the cathodes to the same temperature / emission level.
So tubes are enviro friendly.
Tubes uses electrons, tubes are not full of holes like semi-conductors, but are sealed
properly, even air cannot get in, so much better quality.
Tubes use sockets, you can simply just replace the tube if a problem occurs, and not have to dump the whole Chinese
made impossible to decipher 208 pin flat pack + board + whatever expensive thing it is in.
Tubes give light, some tubes it is even possible to read by in the dark.
The more power the more light.
Tubes start glowing all red like blushing if you overload them, unlike semi-conductors that just fail and then
Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.
Glass can also be melted again and re-used.
Tubes are easier to manufacture then semi-conthings, no very expensive plants needed.
Tubes allow more profit to be made, for example a bad tube amplifier sells for more then good transistor amplifier.
Tubes are beautiful, the art of glass blowing presents itself in wonderful shapes in tubes.
Unlike trans-sisters, now so small you cannot even see these.
Tubes allow for extra connection on the top, saving on through holes in some designs.
Tubes can be manufactured for much higher power then trans-sisters, tubes are the item of choice in many high power
applications.

The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they are great-
good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the same way that a 1968 VW
Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW Beetle.

That they can sometimes sound well is an accidental pleasure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

A

#### Arny Krueger

Jan 1, 1970
0
The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they
are great- good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the
same way that a 1968 VW Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW
Beetle.

Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

T

#### tubegarden

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi RATs!

I have some tubes and their often suggested fellow travelers in audio
circuits. Laying around, all over the house.

I used to build audio circuits, out of thin ideas! Some even sounded
OK! (Some never actually sounded ... just got abandoned in process)

Now I scarcely change a tube or speaker. But, still do, occasionally.
Whoopee!

Sometimes a whole amp! Wowwee Zowwee!!!

Much smarter friends of mine have died.

I just listen and type a bit into these cesspools of the world's
imagination.

Sigh.

Happy Ears!
Al

P

#### Peter Wieck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

When one is immortal (30 and under), that makes no nevermind anyway.
if you have gotten too crusty over the years to understand that most
basic premise-of-youth... or even the memory of it... that is an
unhappy condition.

My 1969 Westie would do a sustained 65 with no troubles back in the
day. Of course, I drove it as if I were an Aztec sacrifice exposed on
the front bumper (i.e. with great caution and care). Much as I drive
our 1987 Westie wasserboxer now. The 1999 Winnie with all its bells
and whistles (AC/Front Engine/FWD/Air-bags/ABS/Traction and so forth)
is far more inviting of complacency.

And, we maintain both the Westie and the Winnie to have fun, no other
reason whatsoever. They are hardly necessities. Much as I keep,
experiment with, maintain and repair my tube equipment as it comes and
goes. Also hardly necessities.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

R

#### Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

Here, I thought he meant "fun to work on", not as much "fun to drive".

Then again, I once had a '70s-ish Ford Econoline van, with the straignt
6 under the doghouse. I had a neighbor at the time who was a car guy,
and one of the funnest things we did was go about 70 on I-494 with the
doghouse off and him diddling with the motor.

It was very noisy. )(><)(

Cheers!
Rich

K

#### krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tubes are warm, they are not cold.

Nah, tubes are hot. You'll burn yourself. Laptops are nice and warm
(warming my hands as I read).

B

#### Bret Ludwig

Jan 1, 1970
0
The sole-and-only advantage I see with tubes is that they are great-
good-fun. Far more fun than transistors in the same way that a 1968 VW
Beetle is more fun than a 2008 VW Beetle.

That they can sometimes sound well is an accidental pleasure.

They can be a more workable technology for the small manufacturer and
hobbyist to build certain types of electronics. They are capable of
enduring some kinds of abuse solid state can't. But their range of
economic application today is quite limited, and successful marketing
of them does depend on nostalgia a little.

A 1968 Beetle can be kept running in an environment, such as after an
economic collapse or limited nuclear exchange, that would stop the
modern one either from EMP or lack of sophisticated parts support. It
is much easier for a hobby mechanic to keep going. But it does require
regular maintenance, and if stock, will require total overhaul much
sooner. The rebuilt version with hydraulic lifters, Chevy rocker arms
and valves, an oil filter and improved cooling blower and a five speed
transaxle will give the new one more of a run for its money. You still
cannot air-condition it without making engine maintenance impossible.

B

#### Bret Ludwig

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here, I thought he meant "fun to work on", not as much "fun to drive".

Then again, I once had a '70s-ish Ford Econoline van, with the straignt
6 under the doghouse. I had a neighbor at the time who was a car guy,
and one of the funnest things we did was go about 70 on I-494 with the
doghouse off and him diddling with the motor.

I sold a pile of Corvair parts in my garage last week to a guy
building a Corvair powered Type II. In 2007.

With the high winds around here, I'd eschew a Bus for a Chevy
Suburban with a 4-53T under the hood if I wanted a camp-mobile.

B

#### Bret Ludwig

Jan 1, 1970
0
Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

The Type II VW was never meant for American driving conditions.
Hippies bought them for, well, you know why.

They were not cheap, then, and aren't now.

There is as much room in a Suburban, or IH Travelall as in a VW Bus.
The old Bus didn't get exemplary mileage, a fact now mostly forgotten.
Most years had serious isssues of one sort or another and the fix was
a major upgrade. Various years of engine, transxle, and front end had
problems. And in high winds the poor bus was a menace to life and
limb.

IMO the most successful VW product was the Karmann Ghia. If they had
used the Type IV engine from the start and the IRS, the car would have
been a Porsche 356 killer. Probably that was why not.

T

#### Tom Bruhns

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tubes are made of glass, you can see what you buy, and can see what happens inside.

Guess you haven't been using ceramic external anode valves...
Glass can also be melted again and re-used.

Oh, yes...that's a fun thing to do with valves. Connect filament
transformer to 833 bottle. Connect -200V--+200V variable power supply
between the grid and the filament transformer center tap. Connect
3000V power supply between the plate and the filament transformer
center tap. Apply power to the filament transformer; allow the
filament to warm up to normal operating temperature. Turn on the grid
power supply and adjust it so the grid is -200V relative to the
filament. Turn on the plate power supply. Monitor the current in the
plate supply. Make the filament voltage more positive, stopping when
the plate current reaches 0.3 amps. If nothing spectacular happens
within fifteen minutes or so, crank up the grid voltage a bit more
till the plate current reaches 0.4 amps. Continue in this fashion
till something happens. Observe the new shape of the glass envelope.
You've done the first part (the "melted" part). Now try to figure out
the "re-used" part for this sample.

Cheers,
Tom

S

#### Stanislaw Flatto

Jan 1, 1970
0
AZ1 wrote:

[snip]

Working in aerocraft industry have seen opened radio equipment on planes
with the good glass envelopes smashed with a hammer.
On querry got an answer: It was a time for replacement so the checking
worker made sure they will be replaced!
Simple?!

Stanislaw

R

#### Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
D said:
Long time ago I picked up this story...Never bothered to get it
confirmed.
Here goes:
Apparently the US takes apart some Russian jet from a defected pilot.
(Sorry.. forgot when I heard this...maybe 20 years ago??)
Lots of tube technology was found in the jet.
The theory being that tubes are more resistant to damage from a
nuclear EMP.
D from BC
There is a lot of truth in that theory; i heard there were ceramic
versions of the Nuvistor with ring-like connections in the lelment stack
that were made expressly to runin EMP environments in satellites and such.

E

#### Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Arny said:
Whether a 1968 VW is more fun would be strictly in the eye of the beholder.
My youngest son had a 1968 VW van, which at 40 mph felt less controllable
than a modern car at over 100.

No great surprise I'd have to say. Maybe some ppl find scary things 'fun' ? Like
parachuting, bungee jumping and rock-climbing for example. The adrenalin rush
and subsequent hit can be very enjoyable.

Graham

P

#### Peter Wieck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Here, I thought he meant "fun to work on", not as much "fun to drive".

Then again, I once had a '70s-ish Ford Econoline van, with the straignt
6 under the doghouse. I had a neighbor at the time who was a car guy,
and one of the funnest things we did was go about 70 on I-494 with the
doghouse off and him diddling with the motor.

It was very noisy. )(><)(

Cheers!
Rich

Yep. Fun to work on was the point. But apart from that, a well-
maintained VW of the time would pretty much go forever at a relatively
low cost. My 1968 VW squareback (FI) averaged 35mpg in mixed driving,
not bad back in the day of cheap (and leaded) gas. And it did a pretty
good job of hauling stuff.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

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