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The Brinks PSA

F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
As posted in the "Evergreen" thread, states in "Section 3 Three Year
Term and Renewal Clause:

(c) By notice to you, Brink’s may terminate this Agreement if Brink’s
determines that the Protective Equipment is generating excessive false
alarms."

Not that I would ever council a disgruntled Brinks customer to start
sending "excessive false alarms", mind you...

My company has removed over twenty Brinks systems from homes and
businesses in the lower maniland (Vancouver). We've always left the
equipment neatly packaged in a box and advised the customer to call them
to arrange pickup. Brinks has (to my knowledge) never collected them.
On any future "takeovers", I'm going to offer to "store" this equipment
at our shop and fax their head office the details. If they don't
arrange to pick up the items within the time allowed by Canadian Law,
I'll ship them (at my expense) to someone that deals with used panel
parts... in Florida because I'm far to responsible to power them all up
so they can all start transmitting "excessive false alarms". :)
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
As posted in the "Evergreen" thread, states in "Section 3 Three Year
Term and Renewal Clause:

(c) By notice to you, Brink’s may terminate this Agreement if Brink’s
determines that the Protective Equipment is generating excessive false
alarms."

Not that I would ever council a disgruntled Brinks customer to start
sending "excessive false alarms", mind you...

No, of course not!
My company has removed over twenty Brinks systems from homes and
businesses in the lower maniland (Vancouver). We've always left the
equipment neatly packaged in a box and advised the customer to call them
to arrange pickup. Brinks has (to my knowledge) never collected them.

Of course not... Brinks doesn't ACTUALLY care about their old
equipment... unless they think someone ELSE cares about it. Then it's
"Mine mine mine!"
On any future "takeovers", I'm going to offer to "store" this equipment
at our shop and fax their head office the details. If they don't
arrange to pick up the items within the time allowed by Canadian Law,
I'll ship them (at my expense) to someone that deals with used panel
parts... in Florida because I'm far to responsible to power them all up
so they can all start transmitting "excessive false alarms". :)

Send'em to Rojas, I'm sure he'll put them to good use ;)
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Matt said:
Send'em to Rojas, I'm sure he'll put them to good use ;)


I understand Jim's new house might be an igloo made of used Brinks
panels. One thing, his wife will never complain about the lack of
"storage cabinets"... ;-)
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
As posted in the "Evergreen" thread, states in "Section 3 Three Year
Term and Renewal Clause:

(c) By notice to you, Brink's may terminate this Agreement if Brink's
determines that the Protective Equipment is generating excessive false
alarms."

Not that I would ever council a disgruntled Brinks customer to start
sending "excessive false alarms", mind you...

My company has removed over twenty Brinks systems from homes and
businesses in the lower maniland (Vancouver). We've always left the
equipment neatly packaged in a box and advised the customer to call them
to arrange pickup. Brinks has (to my knowledge) never collected them.
On any future "takeovers", I'm going to offer to "store" this equipment
at our shop and fax their head office the details. If they don't
arrange to pick up the items within the time allowed by Canadian Law,
I'll ship them (at my expense) to someone that deals with used panel
parts... in Florida because I'm far to responsible to power them all up
so they can all start transmitting "excessive false alarms". :)

Ok Frank, how about sending me one so I can experiment on it and learn
how to crack it. Just so I know how mind you.....:))

RHC
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
tourman said:
Ok Frank, how about sending me one so I can experiment on it and learn
how to crack it. Just so I know how mind you.....:))

RHC

Now you know that would be completely unethical. I have to give Brinks
the chance to pick up the parts first. I will contact some customers
whose Brinks equipment has been replaced and see whether-or-not they've
received any reply to their requests to pick up said equipment, though.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ok Frank, how about sending me one...

You actually believe him?

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Now you know that would be completely unethical. I have to give Brinks
the chance to pick up the parts first. I will contact some customers
whose Brinks equipment has been replaced and see whether-or-not they've
received any reply to their requests to pick up said equipment, though.

OK, I wonder if the other party who cracks boards (Jackson in Port
Moody) would be interested...:)).

Me...I wouldn't ever do anything like crack a leased board for
someone, but you never know where Brinks is going to head with this
nonsense. Knowledge is power and I'd sure like to learn to crack their
boards...just so I can say I can do it....:)) You never know !!

I can't say I've ever seen a Brinks system out here in the Eastern
part of Canada. ADT and Alarmforce seem to have the "bullshit market"
wrapped up.....

Looks like they've gone so far as to force Jim's site off line.....

RHC
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
You actually believe him?

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

RHC: Who knows ! Stranger things have happened.....
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ok Frank, how about sending me one...
As usual, he doesn't have what he claims to have. The rest is just
olsonic BS.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
RHC: Who knows ! Stranger things have happened.....

The day he tells the whole truth I'll buy Bob L's ticket to the
Amazon.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mark said:
Pot Kettle black


Now that's a lie. I've never lied in this Newsgroup (or any other for
that matter). Bass is just being... well... Bass.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
tourman said:
OK, I wonder if the other party who cracks boards (Jackson in Port
Moody) would be interested...:)).

Me...I wouldn't ever do anything like crack a leased board for
someone, but you never know where Brinks is going to head with this
nonsense. Knowledge is power and I'd sure like to learn to crack their
boards...just so I can say I can do it....:)) You never know !!

I can't say I've ever seen a Brinks system out here in the Eastern
part of Canada. ADT and Alarmforce seem to have the "bullshit market"
wrapped up.....

Looks like they've gone so far as to force Jim's site off line.....

RHC


Update... I just received an email from one of my customers. He was
going to chuck the Brinks panel and parts because it's been over six
months since we replaced his equipment. When I told him some nut in
Ontario wanted to "play" with it, he said... "fine!". I'll pick it up
on Saturday afternoon and have it to you next week with the proviso that
anything you find that hasn't already been mentioned in Jim's submission
to the court will be made freely available here and at
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com.
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Update... I just received an email from one of my customers. He was
going to chuck the Brinks panel and parts because it's been over six
months since we replaced his equipment. When I told him some nut in
Ontario wanted to "play" with it, he said... "fine!". I'll pick it up
on Saturday afternoon and have it to you next week with the proviso that
anything you find that hasn't already been mentioned in Jim's submission
to the court will be made freely available here and athttp://www.yoursecuritysource.com.

RHC: Hehehe....agreed, with one proviso !

I will NEVER reveal how unlocking is done. This is a gentleman's
agreement I have with Jim Rojas and Jackson. We share how this is done
between ourselves and no one else. We don't want this dangerous
information getting out to the general public (and to anyone who
questions this, if this makes us "judge, jury and
executioner...tough !! ...that's the way it's going to be). There are
too many individuals and alarm companies who would use this knowledge
against others. Nor would I publish in any form any information that
will allow anyone to crack these boards. But other than that,
everything goes. Screw Brinks and their bullshit.......(and I thought
ADT was bad !)
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
tourman said:
RHC: Hehehe....agreed, with one proviso !

I will NEVER reveal how unlocking is done. This is a gentleman's
agreement I have with Jim Rojas and Jackson. We share how this is done
between ourselves and no one else. We don't want this dangerous
information getting out to the general public (and to anyone who
questions this, if this makes us "judge, jury and
executioner...tough !! ...that's the way it's going to be). There are
too many individuals and alarm companies who would use this knowledge
against others. Nor would I publish in any form any information that
will allow anyone to crack these boards. But other than that,
everything goes. Screw Brinks and their bullshit.......(and I thought
ADT was bad !)

Since none of the Brinks products are keypad programmable (they utilize
a hand-held programmer manufactured by DTI/Scantronic that *any* alarm
dealer in the US/Canada can purchase from GE) "unlocking" this board
would prove a fruitless exercise, but by all means "fill your boots".
The programmers are regularly offered for sale on eBay as well. The
programming "map" would be a good thing to get a-hold of and it
shouldn't take much to reverse engineer it (or find some disgruntled
Brinks employee willing to part with it). That way someone could "rent"
the programmer (along with explicit directions on how to use it with
*any* Brinks product) for a small fee. You'd have to ask for a deposit
(that would cover the cost of the unit) which you would return to the
customer once he's sent it back to you. The programming
map/instructions he could keep. This could be "big". Some could even
call it a "movement".
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Since none of the Brinks products are keypad programmable (they utilize
a hand-held programmer manufactured by DTI/Scantronic that *any* alarm
dealer in the US/Canada can purchase from GE) "unlocking" this board
would prove a fruitless exercise, but by all means "fill your boots".
The programmers are regularly offered for sale on eBay as well. The
programming "map" would be a good thing to get a-hold of and it
shouldn't take much to reverse engineer it (or find some disgruntled
Brinks employee willing to part with it). That way someone could "rent"
the programmer (along with explicit directions on how to use it with
*any* Brinks product) for a small fee. You'd have to ask for a deposit
(that would cover the cost of the unit) which you would return to the
customer once he's sent it back to you. The programming
map/instructions he could keep. This could be "big". Some could even
call it a "movement".

RHC: Frank, I do not need the special programmer to do what I do.
However, if the units are not keypad programmable, you are correct in
that one would need to create a "map" of locations and their
functions. This would simply take a bit more time; however, once
established, I would not ethically be able to publish this
information. In a sense, it "belongs" to Brinks, and much as I'd like
to see them get the royal shaft over this bullshit with Jim, two
wrongs never make a right !!
I just thought it would be fun to crack their board simply to say I
can do it....

I wonder why they are so worried about this information getting out.
Most customers would never be able to do this sort of thing, and even
installers who would choose to learn to reprogram Brinks panels with
the special programmer to make them "local" for customers, would have
a major learning curve to do so, and would have to charge the clients
quite a bit to make it worth their while, which would make it likely
that the client would instead simply choose to buy a new and better
panel from any number of sources. Brinks concerns are really a "storm
in a teacup" and as some have suggested, just an excuse for their
lawyers to rack up billable hours.

At this point, if they were to withdraw their complaints though, it
would be a loss of face for them. I doubt they would do so for that
reason alone....
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
tourman said:
RHC: Frank, I do not need the special programmer to do what I do.
However, if the units are not keypad programmable, you are correct in
that one would need to create a "map" of locations and their
functions. This would simply take a bit more time; however, once
established, I would not ethically be able to publish this
information. In a sense, it "belongs" to Brinks, and much as I'd like
to see them get the royal shaft over this bullshit with Jim, two
wrongs never make a right !!
I just thought it would be fun to crack their board simply to say I
can do it....

I wonder why they are so worried about this information getting out.
Most customers would never be able to do this sort of thing, and even
installers who would choose to learn to reprogram Brinks panels with
the special programmer to make them "local" for customers, would have
a major learning curve to do so, and would have to charge the clients
quite a bit to make it worth their while, which would make it likely
that the client would instead simply choose to buy a new and better
panel from any number of sources. Brinks concerns are really a "storm
in a teacup" and as some have suggested, just an excuse for their
lawyers to rack up billable hours.

At this point, if they were to withdraw their complaints though, it
would be a loss of face for them. I doubt they would do so for that
reason alone....

Actually, the 3000 and the 4000 systems are based on the Honeywell Vista
10 or 15. The programming fields are practically identical. Jim's
published the programming "map" for the 1000. I don't see that it's all
that "secret" considering the master chip isn't even manufactured by
Brinks. How does one obtain a "patent" on a system that's practically
the same as every other one out there? The old PC-2000 (DSC) would
still offer more features than the Brinks panels (and you will recall
you needed to burn the chip and then insert it into the board). I
recall Chubb made a custom keypad for the PC-2000 (they called it a
Sentinel IIIB) but "Digital Security Controls" was stamped all over the
boards. Brinks is a joke.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
RHC: Hehehe....agreed, with one proviso !

He's FOS. You'll never it.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
T

tourman

Jan 1, 1970
0
He's FOS. You'll never it.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

RHC: No matter one way or the other. I would learn to crack it and
then toss it anyway, since it is unusable equipment for any real
purpose. This stupid legal action has really gone too far. I have to
wonder what they hope to gain in the industry from this kind of
approach other than a black eye. Someone within Brinks with some
marketing vision had better get their act together before their
lawyers cause the company harm with this one track legal action. This
sort of thing should put all legitimate alarm companies on notice that
these low end, money grubbing type companies can eventually cause us
all a lot of grief. I scratch my head and I still cannot come up with
a real reason for Brinks to be doing this (other than on principle,
since he won't knuckle under). Their equipment is proprietary, so
useless to anyone except their station other than the odd person who
might want to use it in local mode. User manuals on Jim's site would
only assist Brinks end user customers who might otherwise have to bug
Brinks for another copy of their manuals. And anything that Jim might
have put up on his site regarding programming their panels (even
inadvertantly) would be useless to anyone who didn't have the proper
programmers anyway (since it appears they are not keypad
programmable). So what the hell kind of information could he have ever
had on his site that could have possibly caused a threat to anything
Brinks is doing in their business. It beats the hell out of me !!!!!!!!
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
tourman said:
RHC: No matter one way or the other. I would learn to crack it and
then toss it anyway, since it is unusable equipment for any real
purpose. This stupid legal action has really gone too far. I have
to wonder what they hope to gain in the industry from this kind of
approach other than a black eye...

I can answer that. Brinks isn't concerned with Jim Rojas at all.
They see him as an irritant, not a threat. The problem for them is
that other, much larger players may do the same thing. If they don't
preserve their IP rights future litigants may claim that they have
abandoned those rights. It's easier for them to beat up on Rojas
than a large, national firm that can afford (and has enough sense to
employ) lawyers.

Sadly, although he could probably have won the case if he had done
things right, Jim is about to be crushed by Brinks. All this
nonsense in the newsgroup serves only to provide more ammunition for
Brinks' lawyers to use against Jim. Another gentleman wondered how
Brinks would respond if they realized how much bad publicity the case
is giving them here. I can answer that, too. They don't give a
rat's olson what you, I or any other alarm industry person thinks.
They already know they sell garbage and they know that we know it.
They count on making the sale before the consumer has an opportunity
to hear a better offer from a real alarm company. It's the same as
Sonitrash. They don't care what the competition thinks either.

While we're at it, neither do I. Do you? :^)
Someone within Brinks with some marketing vision had better get
their act together before their lawyers cause the company harm with
this one track legal action.

What harm? A bunch of small-potato alarm salesman in an obscure
newsgroup won't respect them any more? We never did before anyway
and it didn't hurt them.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
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