the red wave form

[Jon]

http://3d-triangulation-calculator.bravehost.com/womansong.html

I had trouble creating this waveform mathematically. Notice that -1 <=
sin(z) <=1 so z has to take on values at least up to pi/2 to 3pi/2, which is
violated by the equation. I only used it since it was the only thing that
worked.

Also I'm not sure how to design the electronics to create the red wave
(resultant). Right now I'm using two 555 timers. The wave is going to be
an audio signal. (the red wave in the gif image above).

The two female vocalists in the band ABBA have synchronized vibratos, making
their singing particularly pleasing. Also in the band Heart in the song
"Music Man" towards the end of the song the synthesizer goes into a warbly
oscillation. I don't like the sound of it but if I can duplicate it with a
different frequency it might sound better.

 

[Jasen Betts]

http://3d-triangulation-calculator.bravehost.com/womansong.html

I had trouble creating this waveform mathematically. Notice that -1 <=
sin(z) <=1 so z has to take on values at least up to pi/2 to 3pi/2, which is
violated by the equation. I only used it since it was the only thing that
worked.

Also I'm not sure how to design the electronics to create the red wave
(resultant). Right now I'm using two 555 timers. The wave is going to be
an audio signal. (the red wave in the gif image above).

The two female vocalists in the band ABBA have synchronized vibratos, making
their singing particularly pleasing. Also in the band Heart in the song
"Music Man" towards the end of the song the synthesizer goes into a warbly
oscillation. I don't like the sound of it but if I can duplicate it with a
different frequency it might sound better.

If you want ot hear it, compute it, convert it to WAV, and play
it on your computer.

 

[Tim Williams]

Geez, how the heck do (did) they do that? As far as I know, vibrato
is not a consciously controlled thing, so you can't sync it. I
wonder if it was done by running their voices through a MIDI-Verb
in the production process?

Everything's consciously controlled, to some small extent. By
concentrating, I can reduce my heart rate. Sometimes. I think. There's
a few people with the proven ability to do things like control heart rate
(up and down?), basal metabolic rate (let's go sleep on Mt. Everest
without a shirt on!) and probably more.

Tim

 

[Martin Brown]

http://3d-triangulation-calculator.bravehost.com/womansong.html

I had trouble creating this waveform mathematically. Notice that -1 <=
sin(z) <=1 so z has to take on values at least up to pi/2 to 3pi/2,
which is violated by the equation. I only used it since it was the
only thing that worked.

I think you need to do a lot more homework into what vibrato is first.

The waveform you have drawn will just sound mildly annoying.

BTW I think you might actually be able to program the signal generator
function in the latest DAQARTA to do something like what you want with
no soldering necessary. It's spectrum analyser function will certainly
help you understand the properties of musical waveforms better.

Also I'm not sure how to design the electronics to create the red wave
(resultant). Right now I'm using two 555 timers. The wave is going to
be an audio signal. (the red wave in the gif image above).

A 555 will only ever output a square wave from pin 3 or a triangle wave
off the capacitor if you buffer it appropriately. You want a pure sine
wave in an ideal world to match the graph you have shown.

Vibrato is actually a combination of mostly frequency with some small
amount of amplitude modulation of a higher frequency carrier wave.

On a violin for example the vibrato would be around 5-20Hz whereas
orchestral A is 440Hz. Not sure about singers voices.

You should be aiming to get something more like

y(t) = (A + a.sin(Vt))*sin( (F + f.sin(Vt))t)

A is the pure amplitude, a is the amount of amplitude modulation
F is the pure frequency, f is the amount of frequency modulation

Where A >> a, F >> f and F >> V

The vibrato will sound awful if it is a square wave (think ~DALEK!).

So you want something like a triangle wave with sine shaper for the
vibrato with a range of say 5-25 Hz and a voltage controlled oscillator
being fed with that plus a DC voltage to determine centre pitch.

The two female vocalists in the band ABBA have synchronized vibratos,
making their singing particularly pleasing. Also in the band Heart in
the song "Music Man" towards the end of the song the synthesizer goes
into a warbly oscillation. I don't like the sound of it but if I can
duplicate it with a different frequency it might sound better.

I expect it was all done electronically by clever multitrack recording
in the studio.

 

[josephkk]

Yes, but synching a basically non-volitional function that is pretty
rapid sounds difficult.

Jon

Jon, i am far from worlds greatest vocalist and i can control my vibrato
in strength and frequency. If i can do it surely many professionals can.

?-)

 

[Greegor]

Yup, I agree.  It would be trivial to do with a MIDI-verb or similar studio
gear of the time.  I can't imagine anybody could sync their vibrato as
a vocal technique, except possibly by standing next to a pipe organ's
pedal ranks.

Jon

 

[[email protected]]

Maybe vibrato could be synchronized by injection-locking, via a small
voice coil actuator on each singer's throat. Might be fun to try.

I hydraulic press on the chest? How about on the...

 

[Clifford Heath]

I can't imagine anybody could sync their vibrato as
a vocal technique

Having been (at one time) a passably good violinist (my sister is still
a world-class player) I don't find it at all unlikely. The vibrato is
primarily driven by beta-rhythms, which though not under direct conscious
control, can be and are finely controlled parametrically. I never tried
to synchronize my vibrato with another violinist (who was also trying)
but I have no doubt whatever that even I could have learnt it. All the
more so professionals and for vocalists, for whom this control is even
more central to their skills.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Jasen Betts]

Yes, but the OTHER "Jon" said that two vocalists SYNCHED their vibrato,

frequency control and feedback is all that's needed for that feat.

it's called a PLL.

 

[josephkk]

frequency control and feedback is all that's needed for that feat.

it's called a PLL.

I think what makes this interesting is that two people did this sans
electronics; or maybe not (it could have been done electronically). If i
knew which track(s) i would love to listen to it for that property.

?-)

 

[Martin Brown]

I think what makes this interesting is that two people did this sans
electronics; or maybe not (it could have been done electronically). If i
knew which track(s) i would love to listen to it for that property.

?-)

I am fairly convinced that most of it is down to clever post production
electronic sound engineering with then state of the art gear. If you
want to decide for your self try the album Arrival 1977 which sparkles
whereas their live performances at the time were described as "Boring".

http://music.wikia.com/wiki/ABBA

The MP3 samples on Amazon are not technically that good at fairly low
bit rates but should show it if you listen to any of samples

2 Dancing Queen
5 Knowing me, Knowing you
11 Fernando

Which have all got slow sustained bits with the girls voices relatively
strong and clearly showing the feature he describes. I still think it is
close miked and tweaked in post production. They were at the time
legendary for very clever studio work in the "Wall of Sound" vein.

I couldn't find anything useful about how it was done technically. Maybe
someone who can read Swedish could perhaps fill in the gaps.

 

[[email protected]]

I am fairly convinced that most of it is down to clever post production
electronic sound engineering with then state of the art gear. If you
want to decide for your self try the album Arrival 1977 which sparkles
whereas their live performances at the time were described as "Boring".

I wonder if Manhattan Transfer didn't use some of the same techniques.
I'm told their live performances are "flat" or "muddled", though it
could have just been the acoustics in the theater.

<...>

 

[Martin Brown]

I don't think they did. At least put it this way the gear existed by
then to do vocoder and other sophisticated voice modulation tricks.

I wonder if Manhattan Transfer didn't use some of the same techniques.
I'm told their live performances are "flat" or "muddled", though it
could have just been the acoustics in the theater.

<...>

Don't know - they were kind of US retro 1920-30's music with a big hit
in the UK with Chanson d'Amour and few others after that. AFAIK They are
not obviously connected with the Wall of Sound studio techniques.

Although they were in the same scene as various electronica artists like
Donna Summer so anything is possible.

 

[[email protected]]

I don't think they did. At least put it this way the gear existed by
then to do vocoder and other sophisticated voice modulation tricks.

Don't know - they were kind of US retro 1920-30's music with a big hit
in the UK with Chanson d'Amour and few others after that. AFAIK They are
not obviously connected with the Wall of Sound studio techniques.

They do more than 20s-30s. Each album/CD was rather a different
style. Their biggest attributes were their crisp enunciation and
absolute synchronization, which brought them to mind in this
discussion. I've been told it didn't go over well live, perhaps
because there was no back-room editing. Though their "live" albums
were good, "live" doesn't preclude a lot of fiddling in the studio.