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Thin / metal film resistors

N

Nemo

Jan 1, 1970
0
I notice that Susumu make really cheap metal film resistors - maybe 5
cents in one-off quantities. Do these have inferior noise performance
compared to expensive metal film ones from manufacturers like Tyco? I
realise they may have a worse tempco.

Thank you,
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"John Larkin Bullshits AGAIN "
Johnson noise is Johnson noise. It only depends on the resistance and
the temperature. Without voltage across a resistor, all you can have
is Johnson noise.

With current flowing through them, metal films definitely have well
below shot noise.

** Huh ?? Makes no sense.

As far as I can tell,

** Which is not much at all.

common thickfilm resistors don't have significant shot noise.

** Same old BORING and 100% WRONG story

YET AGAIN !!!!!!

Yaaawwwnnnnnnn ................


Old carbon comps were said to have
"excess noise" when they had a lot of voltage across them.

** A couple of volts DC will do to show them up.

I tried measuring shot+excess noise on thinfilms, thickfilms, and
carbon films but couldn't resolve any. My setup should have easily
resolved shot noise.


** Your "set up" was obviously a pile of crap.

It is very easily to measure the excess noise in carbon comp, metal glaze
( ie cermet thick film) and carbon film resistors.

Not long ago, I posted the details and results of exactly such tests here -
along with a link to ABSE for pics of the actual resistors used.

Maker's specs alone are enough to settle the matter.

But nothing will convince a retarded, bullshitting, fucking IDIOT like
Larkin.



..... Phil
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
What part of that doesn't make sense to you?

John


'definitely have figures which are well below shot noise...'

is that maybe what you meant to say when you mumbled that non-sentence
above?

I understood what you were saying, but he obviously didn't.

Still, 'your set-up' should have been able to measure distinctly
different numbers for each form factor. If not, 'your set-up' is suspect
of having too high a baseline noise floor for the job.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Any time you'd like to start making sense, we're ready.

John

To think that I was on your side.

Won't make that mistake again. You stayed on the retard bandwagon all
by yourself.
 
B

Bill Palmer

Jan 1, 1970
0
THIS POSTING HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH ELECTRONICS
WHY DON'T YOU INSTEAD POST A QUESTION ABOUT A CIRCUIT?

Knock it off, Thompson.
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin a écrit :
One contributor to 1/f noise is millikelvin thermal wafts whacking the
TC of the resistor. This messes up semiconductors and crystal
oscillators, too.

John

Yup, but...
in case of tempco involved, the resistance has 1/f dependency (in case
of flat temperature spectral density), i.e. thermally induced voltage
noise is also 1/f, while in case of excess noise, that's the noise power
which is 1/f and voltage noise is 1/sqrt(f).

One good way to sort which is which is to make a normal convection
"excess noise" measurement, then to carefully pack the resistor in some
big chunk of foam and do the true measurement.

No, I haven't done it. But I might (when I'll be idling, so don't hold
your breath).
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Interesting theory. (Almost) full headers for two typical posts are:

-=-=-=-

Path:
feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:26:34 -0600
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Thin / metal film resistors
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 13:26:34 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: (snipped)
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 74
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace:
sv3-1GgD+tLbsXtoQenLc1YnPBtx9HSGDj7EyP0HvDnRaLfo3B2laikwr6SI7HDT0W4nei3YSjagcXqB5Sr!zuRIWP4OHG/qJNDkGi4w/sVWtb1dmMsh9dy/hZfjdyV6Y1VHsiPmQWFUBgF7QZKkjxb62ds=
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint
properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Xref: eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:78835

-=-=-=-

Path:
feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:24:11 -0600
From: Jim Thompson <[email protected]/Snicker>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Can you believe:
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:24:10 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 15
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace:
sv3-dAq3uLn/HY4oAf+SmZbXqM669Llmwr8XHv+ZzfJxwu9NLHg04R87NcXDeBaXBTSzIDEpW+UpQqAFOo5!fki5NkGLOVod0ww45of21NCi0TjUQHYs93PzupCsFyqYkI5vO/+1scMoK4ZWje9SJk4XCiI=
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint
properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Xref: eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:77962

-=-=-=-

The paths are different, but that doesn't mean anything; another JT post
went through Google instead of Highwinds.

All identifying marks are similar, except the X-Trace, which is encrypted.
Another JT post contains yet another X-Trace, so it would seem it changes
between postings. I would guess the encryption key changes irregularly, and
slightly different data is present, e.g., the time and date of login or
posting is included.

There could be lots of people on Giganews using Agent 6.00/32.1186, so
without decryption, it's hardly conclusive. Would be pretty funny if it
were true though.

A survey of the troll nyms' headers might be instructive too, but a simple
killfiling is easier.

Tim
 
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