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Toaster Problem

E

Eric Mackie

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have bought three toasters (and taken two of them back) and all of them
will not toast properly. I set them on the darkest setting and the toast
pops up barely browned at all. Does anyone have any idea what the problem
could be?

I live in the country and have my own transformer on the pole outside my
house if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Eric
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most cheap toasters have only one temperature sensor, and it is in the
vicinity of only one slot in the toaster. If you put the toast in a
slot that doesn't have the temperature sensor, the toaster will quit almost
immediately because the temperature sensor relies on the bread to absorb
some of the heat...No bread, no absorbtion.

Look on the top of the toaster there should be a mark telling you which
slot to use for single slices.

-Chuck
 
E

Eric Mackie

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am always toasting two pieces of bread so that can't be the problem. By
the way, it was three different brands of toaster that I tried.

Thanks

Eric
 
S

sofie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eric:
TAKE the toaster to a friend's or relative's home and try it there.... if
it then works OK you maybe should have the power company or an electrician
come to your home to check things out.
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you are having trouble with 3 different brands of toaster, than either
you are toasting wierd bread, or you aren't getting 120V to the toaster.

The most likely answer is you have a bad neutral connection at the pole pig
transformer, or meter, or your service panel. Turn on all the lights in the
house, and see if some of them get brighter when the toaster is on.

-Chuck
 
N

NSM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eric Mackie said:
I have bought three toasters (and taken two of them back) and all of them
will not toast properly. I set them on the darkest setting and the toast
pops up barely browned at all. Does anyone have any idea what the problem
could be?

I live in the country and have my own transformer on the pole outside my
house if that makes any difference.

Look underneath. There's often a master adjustment.

N
 
R

Ross Herbert

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you are having trouble with 3 different brands of toaster, than either
you are toasting wierd bread, or you aren't getting 120V to the toaster.

The most likely answer is you have a bad neutral connection at the pole pig
transformer, or meter, or your service panel. Turn on all the lights in the
house, and see if some of them get brighter when the toaster is on.

-Chuck

If there was any joint with significant contact resistance then the
lamps would get dimmer when the toaster was switched on. ie. greater
voltage drop across the high resistance joint due to increased current
demand thus less voltage across lamps.

Most modern toasters I have inspected use a simple electronic timer to
latch a relay which applies power to the heater elements. A
potentiometer varies the time the elements are powered up and thus the
length of time which heat is applied to the bread. It is quite easy to
see (at least with vertical toasters) whether the heating elements are
a nice cherry red colour or not while toasting and if the element is
not red then there is a problem with the voltage supply.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eric Mackie said:
I have bought three toasters (and taken two of them back) and all of them
will not toast properly. I set them on the darkest setting and the toast
pops up barely browned at all. Does anyone have any idea what the problem
could be?

I live in the country and have my own transformer on the pole outside my
house if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Eric

Crappy toasters?

Have you tried a different model? I've had good experience with the ones
using an electronic control as they time the toast rather than work off the
heating of a bimetallic strip. You could also get a toaster oven with a
mechanical timer, they work well too though they take up a bit more counter
space.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eric Mackie said:
I am always toasting two pieces of bread so that can't be the problem. By
the way, it was three different brands of toaster that I tried.

Thanks

Eric


If you have or know someone who has a multimeter, have them test the line
voltage at the outlet when the toaster is on, if it's off by more than +/-
10v of 120v then something is wrong.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ross Herbert said:
If there was any joint with significant contact resistance then the
lamps would get dimmer when the toaster was switched on. ie. greater
voltage drop across the high resistance joint due to increased current
demand thus less voltage across lamps.

Not if the joint is the neutral at or before the panel, then the two sides
end up in series, apply more load to one side and the voltage drops while
pushing *up* the voltage on the other side.
 
J

Jim Adney

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have bought three toasters (and taken two of them back) and all of them
will not toast properly. I set them on the darkest setting and the toast
pops up barely browned at all. Does anyone have any idea what the problem
could be?

Have you tried the LIGHTEST setting? The labeling might be confusing.

-
 
K

Ken Weitzel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Have you tried the LIGHTEST setting? The labeling might be confusing.

Hi...

One more quick possibility if I may? Not possible that
he's toasting fresh "still warm from the bakery" bread,
is he?

I ask only because that takes much, much longer to toast...

Take care.

Ken
 
R

Ross Herbert

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not if the joint is the neutral at or before the panel, then the two sides
end up in series, apply more load to one side and the voltage drops while
pushing *up* the voltage on the other side.

Perhaps I am missing something here. If the OP has "his own
transformer" which I assume is single phase (MEN ?), then where does
the "both sides ending up in series" come from? In the OP's situation
as I read it there would be only 2 or 3 wires carrying 120 Vac from
the transformer secondary (L & N plus E if required) to his
distribution board. If there was high resistance in the N wire or the
A wire anywhere between the transformer secondary and the toaster then
there would be a voltage drop at this high resistance point and any
lamps connected would dim when the toaster was switched on.

Of course, since I am in Australia where the domestic supply is 240Vac
(single phase) MEN that's how this symptom would manifest itself.
Perhaps I am not reading the situation as it would be where the OP
(and yourself) are located.
 
J

Jerry G.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Put some bread in the toaster, make it toast, and take an AC voltage reading
at the AC outlet where it is plugged in. This will tell you right away, if
the voltage from the utility supplier is correct. If it is correct, you
should take back the toaster, and get another brand.

I had one model of toaster that was the worse one I ever had. I had it
changed 3 times, and was never satisfied. Finally, I changed it for a much
more expensive one where I paid the difference. It has been flawless since
then.

The first toaster was the Delonghi. This one was the biggest piece of crap I
ever had. The engineers who designed this toaster, should be strung up. But,
their toaster ovens are excellent. The engineers who designed their toaster
ovens must not know the ones that designed the Delonghi bread toasters.

The one I ended up with was the Kitchenaid. This one was about 7 times the
price, but it is 10 times the quality, and performance. I had to pay a big
difference for it. If this was not going to work out, I was going to buy the
Hobart.

--

Jerry G.
======


I have bought three toasters (and taken two of them back) and all of them
will not toast properly. I set them on the darkest setting and the toast
pops up barely browned at all. Does anyone have any idea what the problem
could be?

I live in the country and have my own transformer on the pole outside my
house if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Eric
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ross said:
Perhaps I am missing something here. If the OP has "his own
transformer" which I assume is single phase (MEN ?), then where does
the "both sides ending up in series" come from? In the OP's situation
as I read it there would be only 2 or 3 wires carrying 120 Vac from
the transformer secondary (L & N plus E if required) to his
distribution board. If there was high resistance in the N wire or the
A wire anywhere between the transformer secondary and the toaster then
there would be a voltage drop at this high resistance point and any
lamps connected would dim when the toaster was switched on.

Of course, since I am in Australia where the domestic supply is 240Vac
(single phase) MEN that's how this symptom would manifest itself.
Perhaps I am not reading the situation as it would be where the OP
(and yourself) are located.

Yes, you are missing something. In the USA, we use 120V for normal
domestic service. The standard arrangement is to use a 240V center
tapped transformer with the center tap being the "neutral", or return
lead for the 120V loads.

POLE
TRANSFORMER HOUSE
+------------line-----------+
| |
120V LOAD A
| |
+-------+--- neutral--------+
| | |
120V --- LOAD B
| /// |
+------------line-----------+

Imagine what happens if the wire between the center tap of the transformer
(marked neutral) is removed. If LOAD A, and LOAD B are equal, everything
looks ok, but if LOAD A grows bigger, by let's say, a 1500W toaster, the
system will become unbalanced, and the voltage on LOAD A will decrease, and
the voltage on LOAD B will have to increase.

-Chuck
 
T

Terry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ross Herbert said:
Perhaps I am missing something here. If the OP has "his own
transformer" which I assume is single phase (MEN ?), then where does
the "both sides ending up in series" come from?

Ross think of it this way.

A typical North American service is 'three wire' from the transformer
outside, often pole mounted.

Our service which is typical has a three wire triplex from the service pole
to the metal service mast/conduit on its way to the meter mounted on the
outside of the house.

Consider the middle or centre wire is zero or neutral. Typically white. Note
1.
One outer wire is (sort of) plus 115 volts, this is say red. Leg A.
The other outer wire is (sort of) minus 115 volts, it is say black. Leg B.

I say 'sort of' because this is of course AC at 60 Hz; but use plus/minus to
illustrate; OK?

Leg A and Leg B are the two 'ends' of a single phase 230 volt winding of the
electric company step down 'distribution' transformer. Although they are
sometimes mistakenly called 'phases'! The 230 volt winding is centre tapped
and this is the zero reference point or neutral.


So between Leg A an Leg B there is 230 volts; (with neither wire at zero or
neutral), we use this for heavy appliances such as water heaters, cooking
stoves etc. maybe a welder in a home workshop, my bench saw has a 230 volt
motor for example etc. These 230 volt circuits are connected through two
pole breakers. I also have a 230 volt outlet above the work bench for the
occasional use of anything 230 volt!

There is 115 between the red and neutral and 115 between black and neutral.
Typically the other house circuits, 115 volt lighting, convenience outlets
etc. are evenly distributed between and served through single pole breakers.

We do not seem to use 'Ring Mains' as they do in the UK! Appliance plugs do
not contain fuses.

Individual (radial) lighting circuits typically #14 AWG at 15 amps, outlet
radial circuits either #AWG at 20 amps or #14 AWG at 15 amps.

Ground wires within the residence are either bare wire within the cable
sheath or green.

Note 1. The neutral is grounded 'once' at the main panel where it enters the
house and depending on the jurisdiction there are various bonding
requirements to other utilities such as water pipes etc.

Personally I think it's good system and while 115 volt does result in higher
amperages for some plug in devices those that do use any large amount of
wattage, such as an electric kettle, toaster or a fridge are used
intermittently.

Any help?
 
N

NSM

Jan 1, 1970
0
....
Personally I think it's good system and while 115 volt does result in higher
amperages for some plug in devices those that do use any large amount of
wattage, such as an electric kettle, toaster or a fridge are used
intermittently.

If they had it to do over again I'm sure they'd pick a voltage from 220 -
240 volts. In most countries that's the only voltage. In the US/Canada there
are so many voltages used, often in the same building, it's bewildering.

N
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
NSM said:
...



If they had it to do over again I'm sure they'd pick a voltage from 220 -
240 volts. In most countries that's the only voltage. In the US/Canada there
are so many voltages used, often in the same building, it's bewildering.

No, the US wouldn't go to 240V. It is too dangerous. A good part of the reason
we have stuck with a system that has at most 120V to earth ground, is safety.
The usual human's skin resistance is high enough so that 120V won't allow enough
current to pass through the body to cause anything more than discomfort. At 240V,
50/60 Hz AC, death is vastly more likely.

This death risk is to a large part the reason the European safety agencies are so
strict. We don't need to be *that* careful here in the US.

OBTW, The US and Canadian houses have only 2 voltages allowed: 120V, and 240V. That
isn't "so many".

In light industry, and commercial, two other voltages come up as a result of the
3 phase power: If you have 3 phase "Y" power with 120V legs to neutral, you also
get 208V between any pair of legs. If you have 3 phase "Y" power with 240V between
any two pairs of legs, you also get 138V to neutral which is often used for overhead
lighting in office buildings and factories.

Heavy industry has a host of other voltages both here in the US, and in Europe.

-Chuck
 
R

Ross Herbert

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the clear explanation. I was not aware that a centre tapped
txfmr was used to derive two 115V feeds for the domestic supply. It is
a neat way of running both 115V and 230V appliances from the one power
source. I suppose that appliances using 230V are hardwired from their
CB's or use a different socket outlet for corded 230V items.

Our system is much like the UK except the nominal single phase supply
is 240V rather than 230v. Most city residences have the option of
either single phase (L, N) or 3 phase (L1-red, L2-white, L3-blue and
N-black) feed to their house from the street distribution pole. In
Western Australia the use of pole breakers on each feed has been
eliminated and the feed isolation is performed by 60/80A cartridge
fuse links in the meter box ahead of the meter These links are
included under separate cover which is part of the meter and usually
the cover screws are secured with wire and lead seals to prevent
customer access. Following the meter is a main CB typically 50A.
Lighting circuits are usually via 8A CB's while 240V distribution to
outlets is via 16A or 20A ELCB's (GFI). Three phase appliances have
individual feeds via CB's (typ 20A) per appliance usually direct wired
for stoves HWS HVAC etc. Where 3 phase pluggable items are used such
as in a workshop, large 4 pin heavy duty shrouded outlets are used.

Our domestic appliance plugs are 3 pin un-fused and they are a bare
minimum design much like the US plug but with different pin shape and
orientation. I have always been impressed by the UK fused plugs which
are far more rugged and practical in my opinion. Far better for an
appliance to blow a suitably rated plug fuse than trip a 16A or 20A
breaker in the distribution panel I think.

Rgds,

Ross Herbert
 
N

NSM

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, the US wouldn't go to 240V. It is too dangerous.

Safer that 120 if you do it right.
A good part of the reason
we have stuck with a system that has at most 120V to earth ground, is safety.
The usual human's skin resistance is high enough so that 120V won't allow enough
current to pass through the body to cause anything more than discomfort. At 240V,
50/60 Hz AC, death is vastly more likely.

Couldn't disagree more. It's all about grounding.
This death risk is to a large part the reason the European safety agencies are so
strict. We don't need to be *that* careful here in the US.

I can tell said:
OBTW, The US and Canadian houses have only 2 voltages allowed: 120V, and 240V. That
isn't "so many".

Plus 208.
In light industry, and commercial, two other voltages come up as a result of the
3 phase power: If you have 3 phase "Y" power with 120V legs to neutral, you also
get 208V between any pair of legs. If you have 3 phase "Y" power with 240V between
any two pairs of legs, you also get 138V to neutral which is often used for overhead
lighting in office buildings and factories.

Down under we use 230/400 only. For truly huge motors in mills etc, we use 3
phase 11 kV direct in.

Here, you have 120, 208, 220, 440, 600, ... hell, I can't remember them all.
Heavy industry has a host of other voltages both here in the US, and in
Europe.

Can't speak for Europe, but I believe they have streamlined their systems.
230 Volts AC is the new international standard - same as New Zealand.

N
 
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