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Trying to repair a circuit board for a rolling ball clock

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
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Noob trying to fix a small circuit board for a rolling ball clock.

I have a rolling ball clock which stops working. The clock/counter at the top runs correctly but it doesn't turn the arm at the top of the minute.
Bypassing the magnetic reed switch doesn't do anything but by chance I was playing around to see if the motor was getting power.
I discovered that when I connected one side of the motor to a location on the board (see photos) then the motor started working again.
The motor continues to work and turn the arm every minute but then dies again after about an hour or so. If I touch the motor lead (not sure if neg or pos) to the same place on the circuit board it starts working again for a while.

I don't know enough electronically to test components to see what could be the issue.

I can solder a board this size with no issues but I'm not certain what I should be doing to repair
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Bypassing the magnetic reed switch doesn't do anything
Which implies the reed switch is potentially faulty - or maybe the magnet that operates it?

What made you 'randomly' connect one side of the motor to some random area of the circuit board? You may have caused more damage by doing so. Was the motor 'disconnected' in some way?

Either way, your photo's do nothing to help. The area of the motor connections can't be seen, the circuit board isn't clear or close enough etc.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
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Bypassing the magnetic reed switch does not cause the motor to run.

I randomly tested various points because I don't know what I'm doing.

I'll try to get better pictures posted.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
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Which implies the reed switch is potentially faulty - or maybe the magnet that operates it?

What made you 'randomly' connect one side of the motor to some random area of the circuit board? You may have caused more damage by doing so. Was the motor 'disconnected' in some way?

Either way, your photo's do nothing to help. The area of the motor connections can't be seen, the circuit board isn't clear or close enough etc.
New images. Third image is where I tried first on the "green" side. First image is on the component side. Both contacts caused the motor to start up and continue to run for about an hour.
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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Still inadequate pics.

Where do the motor black/blue wires connect? Where do the wires from the reed switch connect? Can we see the FULL circuit board AND the wires leading to/from it? What about the other wires to/from the board? Where do they go (or come from)?
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
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Still inadequate pics.

Where do the motor black/blue wires connect? Where do the wires from the reed switch connect? Can we see the FULL circuit board AND the wires leading to/from it? What about the other wires to/from the board? Where do they go (or come from)?
The two yellow wires come from the top (left in this picture) are the wires to the reed switch.
The red and black wires from the top I assume are the positive and negative leads which go to the circuit board.
The blue wire from the circuit board goes to the left side of the motor and a black wire from the circuit board goes to the other side of the motor.
 

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kellys_eye

Jun 25, 2010
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I'm guessing that the circuit board is a simple monostable circuit - a system that, once triggered by the closing (or opening) contacts of the reed switch, makes the motor run for a predetermined period of time - probably just enough for it to perform one full rotation to send a ball rolling?

Either way, the monostable isn't being triggered except when you do so manually with your 'wire'. This points to the reed switch or the monostable itself which, since it actually works when you manually trigger it, doesn't seem to be the issue.

You need a test meter for the rest..... set to 'ohms' (continuity) place the test meter probes across the reed switch to see if it's a normally closed (shows a short) or normally open (shows open circuit). Then hold a magnet need the reed switch to see if the conditions changes (closed-to-open or open-to-closed).

Get back with the result.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
Joined
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I'm guessing that the circuit board is a simple monostable circuit - a system that, once triggered by the closing (or opening) contacts of the reed switch, makes the motor run for a predetermined period of time - probably just enough for it to perform one full rotation to send a ball rolling?

Either way, the monostable isn't being triggered except when you do so manually with your 'wire'. This points to the reed switch or the monostable itself which, since it actually works when you manually trigger it, doesn't seem to be the issue.

You need a test meter for the rest..... set to 'ohms' (continuity) place the test meter probes across the reed switch to see if it's a normally closed (shows a short) or normally open (shows open circuit). Then hold a magnet need the reed switch to see if the conditions changes (closed-to-open or open-to-closed).

Get back with the result.
I didn't state the issue correctly. Whenever I place the wire across and the motor runs, I then remove the wire and the clock works correctly for about an hour. The reed switch is being triggered correctly and everything seems to be running as it should. After about an hour it suddenly stops working and if I place the wire again, get the motor to run then remove the wire I get another hour or so of the clock working.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
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Is the battery ok?
No batteries attached. I am using a wall adapter to supply the 6 volt 100 amp input. I don't have another adapter to test with. There is a plug-in on the back of the unit for an adapter. I assume it is still getting power since the clock/counter at the top is still running.
 

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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Iguanaman . . . . .​

Megaditto's on K.E.'s comment.

You GOTS ! to be some kind of FEWL! if you done gones and wint trubbleshewting with a wire jumper, to then be probing places on that circuit board ! ***

If your unit is one of the units shown below, you are dealing with the further TOTAL loss of functionality of a of a $100 + unit .
You chose one of the terminals of the motor that feeds the gear train which cycles the ball transport arm for a cycle of a minute ball drop.

Either, it is going to be having one motor terminal grounded and the other other terminal receiving 4.5-6 VDC for the duration of a minute ball transport cycle .
OR . . . .it will have a constant 6 VDC going to one motor terminal and the other terminal getting switched to
ground for an operational cycle.
Now if it happens to be wired in the last manner . . . and the unit is being powered by 4 C cells you will be having full 6 volts at a 5-7 Amp power burst level . . . on one of the motor terminals OR just about the same at the other terminal , less the loss of the LOW resistance of a motor winding .

Further referring back to *** and if you happen to use that jumper wire to touch the base connection of one of the transistors on the board in the correct polarity. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT ! ! ! ! GAME OVER . . . as its junction totally vaporizes.
What you want to do is be using a meter in its DC voltage reading mode to see how that motor is being powered.
Now check and see if any and or all of those transistors have identifier markings on them ? Feed them back by my preassigned color codes.

From what your pics will let me make out, here is my perceived . . . .

MOW-DIE . . . OP-ER-AND-I . . . mus-es-es-es-es . . . . . and BASIC CONCEPT OF DESIGN. . . . . .

USE THESE HOT LINKS for INITIAL PRODUCT FAMILIARIZATION REFERENCING . . . .


Ball Clock . . . . illustrations proper

Ball Clock Video of actual cycle time of ball loading

HOT LINK !.png


YOUR PHOTOS MARKED UP FOR REFERENCING . . . .
BALL-CLOCK-INFEAUX.png

Fo' Mo' Biggah Pick-choors

Each one above has a different seconds display wheel . . . . one is only visible from the top downwards while the other will let you see it as a front on display . . . . . now, which one is being your units display mode.
( On one of your units pics, I can see some side numbering. . . . . but it might . . ALSO be frontally marked. )

With the help of your last two photos . . . . let me give my thought on the operation of the unit . . . you then feedback any discreptancies.

There is a basic quartz clock movement in the black housed portion that has a 60 second drum / disc display.
There are two heavier RED and BLACK wires that feed 1.5 VDC power into the basic clock movement . . that then runs the clock continually. Those incoming power wires terminate at the pcb's gear motors corner and then travel upwards as 2 foil routes .

The RED connection travels to the + of E-cap C2 for some filtering and then further down to the Collector ? Emitter ? of the BLUE transistor on the board .

The BLACK connection travels initially to the - of C2 E-cap for filtering return and additionally, that foil buss path . . . all the further length of the board is being ground reference for any future DC metering needed to be done.

I can see that one transistor ( YELLOW) has side markings, so pass on the numbers of all 4 ,so that further circuit in depth analysis can be completed.
That time drum should be ticking off its 1 seconds continually.
Associated with that drum should be a bar / rod magnet mounted to it, and it should swing its magnetic field into coincidence with a companion magnetic reed switch mounted, so that a switch closure is being made at the displayed "0 seconds " time mark.
The magnetic switch wiring exits the quartz clock housing as being the two smaller yellow wires which go to the circuit boards side / central area as two connections to the foils at the area just below YOUR marked in RED circle.
Now the solder job on the left wire to the Pee Cee Bee is nothing to confess as having done, but then, the one to the right is AAA-TRROO-SHUSH, instead of a being profession solder reflow joint it looks like a melted and then "drip soldered " joint.
In addition, it has a top formed extended solder "horn" loop, it's looking PWECAWIOUSLY close to one of the RED transistors adjunct foil.
Cleanse all of the board excess " Pflux" residue off in that area and then resolder both joints . . . . .PROFESSIONALLY.

Until I get further future info coming forward, I am initially seeing a " Zero" seconds timer drums magnet shorting this reed relays orange wires together and getting drive voltage from GREEN line resistor to initially base bias RED transistor on. Its conduction revs up the motor and the gear train starts rotating the arm that then repositions a minute ball.
I am seeing a second pair of wires on the component side of the board which seem to tie into the identical connection points as the previous yellow set.
I want to think that they are routing towards a second switch.
Think of that arm that rotates to position the ball and its BOTTOM END HALF, and see if there is not a magnet on it . With congruent consideration of that magnet being within " magnetic field provimity" of another mag reed swittch which it activates.
This switch variant is being a normally closed switch.
This is accomplished by a proper strength biasing magnet, epoxy affixed to the reed switch. It normally is marginally strong enough to just reliably close the reed switch . . . . .continually . . . . .. thus it is having a normally closed spst switch action .

PERCEIVED OPERATIONAL RUNDOWN . . . .

The clock is running with the seconds ever advancing, meanwhile . . . .BACK IN THE JUNGLE ##### . . . the ball moving claw is in its dormant position, with ball claw at top and its magnet / loaded opposite end at bottom position and having its magnetic field opposing the field of the reed switches biasing magnet and cancelling out the holding closed reed switch. That results in an open circuit reed switch presently.

A BALL DROP CYCLE . . . . minute

As the time clock reaches O seconds, that reed switch within the clock housing closes from magnetic field proximity.
That then switches the motor on and its gear train driven pendulum starts moving, and instantly the magnet in the pendulum bottom, has lost its overriding effect on the reed switches bias magnet. Now instead of being in the open circuit condition, it is now closed circuit and shunting, and providing the same motor run action that the clocks reed switch was initially providing. THAT IS . . .UNTIL . . . the arm has moved its ball and completed a 1 turn revolution where that pendulum bottom magnet then de activates that reed switch again, stops the motor . . .screeeeeeech .
Then Its waiting . . . . until the seconds timer hits "0" again, for a cycle repeat..


Referencing the "C" battery installation . . . . . INSET

Is your setup of the cells, being the same as this ?
Note how the single one cell at the bottom is spaced apart.
So o o o o o o . . . we know that it is using 1.5 VDC for the clock . . . .BUT is the motor then running from 4.5 VDC or is 6 VDC used for the motor ?
I can see a critical battery life / time keeping fault, if being the latter.

ADD ON . . . after just seeing your power wall wart last picture.
If your unit is being one of the two shown, they have a mini power plug for AC line operation from a wall wart.
To evaluate YOUR wall wart unit used, can you test its output voltage at the chassis when the ball arm is immobile and also when the motor is loading down the unit ?




I also need to know where / and / what the two small Mystery 1 &2 gray or black wires at the end of the board connect to .

Reviewing K.E.'s 2nd comment . . .

I'm guessing that the circuit board is a simple mono-stable circuit

Circuit wise, I pinpointed the two 100 ufd E -caps functions as being used as shunting / filter caps on the 2 supply voltages being used .
So from the " mono-stable aspect " we needs a Capacitive time constant complementing a R value . . .
SHOW ME THE MONEY (CAPACITANCE) !. . . of the boards remaining discrete components.
Plus that pendulum always comes to rest . . .stopping on a dime . . . every time , positionally.

##### . . . . . . . . Back in time . . . . . SOUND BITE . . . . . .


Thaaaaaaaasssssit . . . . .

73's de Edd . . . . .


FACTOID ?


Ye Olde Ainglish Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof...

Hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."

.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
Joined
Oct 14, 2022
Messages
34

Sir Iguanaman . . . . .​

Megaditto's on K.E.'s comment.

You GOTS ! to be some kind of FEWL! if you done gones and wint trubbleshewting with a wire jumper, to then be probing places on that circuit board ! ***

If your unit is one of the units shown below, you are dealing with the further TOTAL loss of functionality of a of a $100 + unit .
You chose one of the terminals of the motor that feeds the gear train which cycles the ball transport arm for a cycle of a minute ball drop.

Either, it is going to be having one motor terminal grounded and the other other terminal receiving 4.5-6 VDC for the duration of a minute ball transport cycle .
OR . . . .it will have a constant 6 VDC going to one motor terminal and the other terminal getting switched to
ground for an operational cycle.
Now if it happens to be wired in the last manner . . . and the unit is being powered by 4 C cells you will be having full 6 volts at a 5-7 Amp power burst level . . . on one of the motor terminals OR just about the same at the other terminal , less the loss of the LOW resistance of a motor winding .

Further referring back to *** and if you happen to use that jumper wire to touch the base connection of one of the transistors on the board in the correct polarity. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT ! ! ! ! GAME OVER . . . as its junction totally vaporizes.
What you want to do is be using a meter in its DC voltage reading mode to see how that motor is being powered.
Now check and see if any and or all of those transistors have identifier markings on them ? Feed them back by my preassigned color codes.

From what your pics will let me make out, here is my perceived . . . .

MOW-DIE . . . OP-ER-AND-I . . . mus-es-es-es-es . . . . . and BASIC CONCEPT OF DESIGN. . . . . .

USE THESE HOT LINKS for INITIAL PRODUCT FAMILIARIZATION REFERENCING . . . .


Ball Clock . . . . illustrations proper

Ball Clock Video of actual cycle time of ball loading

View attachment 56551


YOUR PHOTOS MARKED UP FOR REFERENCING . . . .
BALL-CLOCK-INFEAUX.png

Fo' Mo' Biggah Pick-choors

Each one above has a different seconds display wheel . . . . one is only visible from the top downwards while the other will let you see it as a front on display . . . . . now, which one is being your units display mode.
( On one of your units pics, I can see some side numbering. . . . . but it might . . ALSO be frontally marked. )

With the help of your last two photos . . . . let me give my thought on the operation of the unit . . . you then feedback any discreptancies.

There is a basic quartz clock movement in the black housed portion that has a 60 second drum / disc display.
There are two heavier RED and BLACK wires that feed 1.5 VDC power into the basic clock movement . . that then runs the clock continually. Those incoming power wires terminate at the pcb's gear motors corner and then travel upwards as 2 foil routes .

The RED connection travels to the + of E-cap C2 for some filtering and then further down to the Collector ? Emitter ? of the BLUE transistor on the board .

The BLACK connection travels initially to the - of C2 E-cap for filtering return and additionally, that foil buss path . . . all the further length of the board is being ground reference for any future DC metering needed to be done.

I can see that one transistor ( YELLOW) has side markings, so pass on the numbers of all 4 ,so that further circuit in depth analysis can be completed.
That time drum should be ticking off its 1 seconds continually.
Associated with that drum should be a bar / rod magnet mounted to it, and it should swing its magnetic field into coincidence with a companion magnetic reed switch mounted, so that a switch closure is being made at the displayed "0 seconds " time mark.
The magnetic switch wiring exits the quartz clock housing as being the two smaller yellow wires which go to the circuit boards side / central area as two connections to the foils at the area just below YOUR marked in RED circle.
Now the solder job on the left wire to the Pee Cee Bee is nothing to confess as having done, but then, the one to the right is AAA-TRROO-SHUSH, instead of a being profession solder reflow joint it looks like a melted and then "drip soldered " joint.
In addition, it has a top formed extended solder "horn" loop, it's looking PWECAWIOUSLY close to one of the RED transistors adjunct foil.
Cleanse all of the board excess " Pflux" residue off in that area and then resolder both joints . . . . .PROFESSIONALLY.

Until I get further future info coming forward, I am initially seeing a " Zero" seconds timer drums magnet shorting this reed relays orange wires together and getting drive voltage from GREEN line resistor to initially base bias RED transistor on. Its conduction revs up the motor and the gear train starts rotating the arm that then repositions a minute ball.
I am seeing a second pair of wires on the component side of the board which seem to tie into the identical connection points as the previous yellow set.
I want to think that they are routing towards a second switch.
Think of that arm that rotates to position the ball and its BOTTOM END HALF, and see if there is not a magnet on it . With congruent consideration of that magnet being within " magnetic field provimity" of another mag reed swittch which it activates.
This switch variant is being a normally closed switch.
This is accomplished by a proper strength biasing magnet, epoxy affixed to the reed switch. It normally is marginally strong enough to just reliably close the reed switch . . . . .continually . . . . .. thus it is having a normally closed spst switch action .

PERCEIVED OPERATIONAL RUNDOWN . . . .

The clock is running with the seconds ever advancing, meanwhile . . . .BACK IN THE JUNGLE ##### . . . the ball moving claw is in its dormant position, with ball claw at top and its magnet / loaded opposite end at bottom position and having its magnetic field opposing the field of the reed switches biasing magnet and cancelling out the holding closed reed switch. That results in an open circuit reed switch presently.

A BALL DROP CYCLE . . . . minute

As the time clock reaches O seconds, that reed switch within the clock housing closes from magnetic field proximity.
That then switches the motor on and its gear train driven pendulum starts moving, and instantly the magnet in the pendulum bottom, has lost its overriding effect on the reed switches bias magnet. Now instead of being in the open circuit condition, it is now closed circuit and shunting, and providing the same motor run action that the clocks reed switch was initially providing. THAT IS . . .UNTIL . . . the arm has moved its ball and completed a 1 turn revolution where that pendulum bottom magnet then de activates that reed switch again, stops the motor . . .screeeeeeech .
Then Its waiting . . . . until the seconds timer hits "0" again, for a cycle repeat..


Referencing the "C" battery installation . . . . . INSET

Is your setup of the cells, being the same as this ?
Note how the single one cell at the bottom is spaced apart.
So o o o o o o . . . we know that it is using 1.5 VDC for the clock . . . .BUT is the motor then running from 4.5 VDC or is 6 VDC used for the motor ?
I can see a critical battery life / time keeping fault, if being the latter.

ADD ON . . . after just seeing your power wall wart last picture.
If your unit is being one of the two shown, they have a mini power plug for AC line operation from a wall wart.
To evaluate YOUR wall wart unit used, can you test its output voltage at the chassis when the ball arm is immobile and also when the motor is loading down the unit ?




I also need to know where / and / what the two small Mystery 1 &2 gray or black wires at the end of the board connect to .

Reviewing K.E.'s 2nd comment . . .

I'm guessing that the circuit board is a simple mono-stable circuit

Circuit wise, I pinpointed the two 100 ufd E -caps functions as being used as shunting / filter caps on the 2 supply voltages being used .
So from the " mono-stable aspect " we needs a Capacitive time constant complementing a R value . . .
SHOW ME THE MONEY (CAPACITANCE) !. . . of the boards remaining discrete components.
Plus that pendulum always comes to rest . . .stopping on a dime . . . every time , positionally.

##### . . . . . . . . Back in time . . . . . SOUND BITE . . . . . .


Thaaaaaaaasssssit . . . . .

73's de Edd . . . . .


FACTOID ?


Ye Olde Ainglish Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof...
Hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."

.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
Joined
Oct 14, 2022
Messages
34
The clock on top shows both top and front facing display.
The two wires on the side go down to the battery/dc plugin.

I'll try and test the output of the adapter and get back with that. I could simply use batteries for the meantime to see if the same behavior happens. EDIT: Battery test will have to wait until I can get some C cells.
 
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73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
3,463
Joined
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Messages
3,463
OH TAY ! . . . . . on the comeback with those mere 2 tidbits . . . .only 25 more ones still needed.
BOOOO ! . . . . . to the manufacturer on their laxness in compliance with standard protocol on wire color coding.
Two grays for those connections !
At least I THINK ? that they were gray . . . . since some of your photos were over illuminated resulting in " solorization *** " and a color registry shift.

Next most informative reply would be the tracking down of the backside / component side pairing of that set of companion orange /or / red wires*** that travel to the suggested biased reed switch or, it even being a common micro switch.
The marble handling arm is normally being in its parked position until the 00 reading of the timer clock activates its reed switch. That gear train then moves the arm off its park position and that related switch closure maintains a running gear train until coming back to the park position and its then awaiting action again.
 

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
Joined
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Messages
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The two wires are black but appear gray in the photos. The two yellow/orange wires go up to the reed switch. Normally if bypassed they can kick the motor into turning. Whenever the motor stops functioning, bypassing the reed switch has no effect. The two yellow wires connect to the micro switch that the arm interacts with. The board traces look like the yellow wires are also connected to other components but I am not knowledgeable enough to know what those are. On the component side the two red wires are from the reed switch. One side seems to trace to the red dot and yellow dot components you marked in one image above. The other side seems to attach to the green striped resistor? next to it.

The arm description is correct. The momentary movement of the arm by the reed switch moves the arm off the micro switch and it completes a 360 turn coming back onto the micro switch (which turns off the motor) where it waits for the next cycle.
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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Joined
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Messages
3,463

Sir @Iguanaman . . . . .​


You say . . . .
On the component side the two red wires are from the reed switch. One side seems to trace to the red dot and yellow dot components you marked in one image above.
You check . . . . VEWY- VEWY- CWOSEFULLY . . . . and you will see that the RED wires connect to the same foil junctures as the YELLOW wires do . . . . they are being in parallel .

Utilizing your last confirmation of the motor power coming in the bottom right corner of the board and your then consulting the supplied blow up.
We see that foil power path traveling to the left and across the board until it skews downward and then up again, to end up being a pad for the RED transistors C---ollector connection and there it sits and awaits until that transistor can conduct and let power flow thru itself and exit at the E---mitter to further flow to the + connection of the drive motor as its BLUE wire.
The power loop then passes thru the motor winding and exits as the small . . . burnt . . . black wire which goes to ground foil on the board.
For this motor activation action to occur, B---ase drive voltage is needed at the RED transistor.
Look down just below that RED B connection, and a short foil path is seen down to the solder pad where one incoming YELLOW wire from the clocks reed switch terminates into a somewhat sloppy, yet fully overflowing solder joint at BLUE A .
Then, just below it is the reed switches companion YELLOW wire that goes into one somewhat ??? SKETCHY ??? connection, into solder blob BLUE B.
I am questioning the electrical connectivity of fissure juncture XXXX--> to <--XXXX. . . . . . within the obtuse black markup.

Now here is being a proper motor activation requirement . . . . .

RED transistor B--ase biasing voltage is acquired thru the GREEN LINE resistor which flows from PINK circle over to BLUE B solder blob and is supposed to further connect to the right YELLOW wire then the black arrow path is followed to the clock reed switch and then comes back from the switch to the upper YELLOW wires black arrow path and into the BLUE B solder blob and up to RED transistor B--ase.
If there is base drive voltage presence by the clocks reed switch 00 seconds coincidence, RED transistor conducts from C to E and the motor runs, as per our previously established switching pair engagements.
IF lower YELLOW wires solder joint at XXXX--> to <--XXXX juncture is sketchy, it may run or may run intermittently or may not run at all.

Time to INTELLIGENTLY use that jumper wire again.
Set up the clock unit to work until that "stopped" condition is experienced.

Then you pull out ye olde jumper wire and taketh one end and press and rotate into BLUE solder blob A to assure a cleaning and a good contact
Take the jumpers other end and go all the way over to the PINK circle solder blob and at about 45-50 seconds on the clocks timer do the same procedure to establish contact. Hold connection . . . and your breath . . . until 00 comes up and see if the motor doesn't then go WHIZZZZZZZ-PUUUUURRRRRRRR-WUUUUUUPA-WUUUUPA-WUUUUPA ?

If so . . . . . I would be wanting to fully solder re flow previously " drip soldered " BLUE solder blob B to its mating YELLOW wire.

" THE BIG BLOWUP " . . . . . . . . . . . . .(certified)

Ball Clock Soldering.png
Fo' . . . . MUCH . . . Mo' Biggah'

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssit . . . . .

73's de Edd . . . . . . .

At my advanced age onset, these days, I spend a lot of time thinking about the hereafter.
I go somewhere to get something and then wonder what I’m here after.





.
 
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Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
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Sir @Iguanaman . . . . .​


You say . . . .
On the component side the two red wires are from the reed switch. One side seems to trace to the red dot and yellow dot components you marked in one image above.
You check . . . . VEWY- VEWY- CWOSEFULLY . . . . and you will see that the RED wires connect to the same foil junctures as the YELLOW wires do . . . . they are being in parallel .

Utilizing your last confirmation of the motor power coming in the bottom right corner of the board and your then consulting the supplied blow up.
We see that foil power path traveling to the left and across the board until it skews downward and then up again, to end up being a pad for the RED transistors C---ollector connection and there it sits and awaits until that transistor can conduct and let power flow thru itself and exit at the E---mitter to further flow to the + connection of the drive motor as its BLUE wire.
The power loop then passes thru the motor winding and exits as the small . . . burnt . . . black wire which goes to ground foil on the board.
For this motor activation action to occur, B---ase drive voltage is needed at the RED transistor.
Look down just below that RED B connection, and a short foil path is seen down to the solder pad where one incoming YELLOW wire from the clocks reed switch terminates into a somewhat sloppy, yet fully overflowing solder joint at BLUE A .
Then, just below it is the reed switches companion YELLOW wire that goes into one somewhat ??? SKETCHY ??? connection, into solder blob BLUE B.
I am questioning the electrical connectivity of fissure juncture XXXX--> to <--XXXX. . . . . . within the obtuse black markup.

Now here is being a proper motor activation requirement . . . . .

RED transistor B--ase biasing voltage is acquired thru the GREEN LINE resistor which flows from PINK circle over to BLUE B solder blob and is supposed to further connect to the right YELLOW wire then the black arrow path is followed to the clock reed switch and then comes back from the switch to the upper YELLOW wires black arrow path and into the BLUE B solder blob and up to RED transistor B--ase.
If there is base drive voltage presence by the clocks reed switch 00 seconds coincidence, RED transistor conducts from C to E and the motor runs, as per our previously established switching pair engagements.
IF lower YELLOW wires solder joint at XXXX--> to <--XXXX juncture is sketchy, it may run or may run intermittently or may not run at all.

Time to INTELLIGENTLY use that jumper wire again.
Set up the clock unit to work until that "stopped" condition is experienced.

Then you pull out ye olde jumper wire and taketh one end and press and rotate into BLUE solder blob A to assure a cleaning and a good contact
Take the jumpers other end and go all the way over to the PINK circle solder blob and at about 45-50 seconds on the clocks timer do the same procedure to establish contact. Hold connection . . . and your breath . . . until 00 comes up and see if the motor doesn't then go WHIZZZZZZZ-PUUUUURRRRRRRR-WUUUUUUPA-WUUUUPA-WUUUUPA ?

If so . . . . . I would be wanting to fully solder re flow previously " drip soldered " BLUE solder blob B to its mating YELLOW wire.

" THE BIG BLOWUP " . . . . . . . . . . . . .(certified)

View attachment 56568
Fo' . . . . MUCH . . . Mo' Biggah'

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssit . . . . .

73's de Edd . . . . . . .

At my advanced age onset, these days, I spend a lot of time thinking about the hereafter.
I go somewhere to get something and then wonder what I’m here after.





.
Once the rotation stopped at the top of the minute (ran about 5 minutes this time) I then placed the jumper wire from point "A" to point "B" (I tried both sides of the solder blob) The arm still doesn't move at the top of the minute. Despite that should I still go ahead and resolder the "B" side? I assumed you meant "B" since I cannot see a "pink" circle
 
Last edited:

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
Joined
Oct 14, 2022
Messages
34
I'm blind apparently. I see the pink circle now. I will try the test again. Still did not rotate the arm at the top of the minute. I may just have to purchase a 120v 1rpm clock motor and replace the internal workings.
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
3,463
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
3,463

Sir @Iguanaman . . . . .​


Chapter 3 . . . . .

Well . . . . .so much for an easy fix . . . . . . with a bad solder joint .
I had to double check and yes, there is still a PINK circle around the pad that the GREEN lined resistor uses for its bottom connection and then a foil goes left . . .very slightly . . . to connect to the B solder blob.
I was wanting to completely eliminate having to make a connection into questionable solder blob B.
You need to try this test again, incorporating that PINK circle point this time..
Now have we ascertained that the clock dial is ALWAYS running and never stops.
Because, it seems like we have already accounted for everything that happens during a 1 minute ball drop cycle.
E.G. . . . . .
The clock needs to be running and rotate to that 00 time where the timer discs mounted magnet engages the magnetic reed switch***.
That then needs the continuity of its two yellow wires to the circuit board. One wire connects to the base of the driver transistor and the other wire connects to one end of a GREEN line resistor which is used to supply a base turn on drive voltage for the RED motor drive transistor.
The initial reed switch start up action should get the ball move arm off from its dormant park position and then the closing of its associated micro switch will keep the motor running until it has rotated back to parking position and then the opened micro switch cuts off the motor.
If that ball moving arm always completes its complete circle back to park, we mush have no fault with its micro switch or wiring path.
***The magnetic reed switch was first used by Ma Bell for telephone fast switching networks and it was reconstructed having a surrounding bobbin of fine wire to create an electromagnet and then the creation of a reed relay.
Now the the reed switch proper is built in a glass vial and having a final seal at both ends and the two internal magnetic reeds are gold flashed and then the contact areas receive an additional contact enhancing iridium, rhodium or ruthenium coating then a vacuum is pulled on the glass vial and a nitrogen refill and sealing of the glass vial.
If used for low power switching they are X-STREAM-ELLY reliable, with actions measured in 100's of millions of contact closures.
Since this switch is only handling a mere base bias switching of ~9 ma.

Another consideration might be within the motor proper and a wearing down of the brushes down to an iffy contact pressure into the commutator.
Or a burning / oxidation or blackening of the commutator segments giving iffy contact action.

If your RED circle is showing where you shorted across, to make the drive motor start, then that is being between Collector and Base of your RED motor drive transistor and BOY should that activate that transistor ! and get the motor running.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm . . .get your motor running . . . . time out . . . . SOUND BITE . . . a Blast from the Past !
https://soundcloud.com/chipmunkcheeks228%2Fsteppenwolf-born-to-be-wild
A Continuance . . . .

Now in the past, if that motor started EVERY time you did that temporary RED circle shorting action, seems like the motor would be faultless.
With a like possibility of the RED driver transistor also not being intermittent / faulty .
We are now getting down to needing to go to the bottom end of the GREEN line resistor and the need to have a voltmeter and connect its black ground lead to the boards ground buss foil all across the top side of the board or the motor end also, as being a metering negative ground reference and then touch the RED lead to the PINK circle connection and take reference to that voltage when powered is connected onto the clock.
Then in further testing and the experiencing of an expected shut down of the unit, check and see if that voltage is STILL being present . Because . . . . . that voltage getting to the base of the RED transistor via the yellow switching wiring initiates a single minute marble cycling.

That now just about covers all of the most pertinent possibilities left .
Question:
Doesn't a ball cycling arm rotation take about 5 seconds or less ? . . . . . . . . then its sit and wait 'til another 00.
ERRATA:
On my last labeling of the motor leads I saw the connections, but later on, then typed them in inversely.
The driver transistor goes in with its power to the burnt black wire and on to the motor terminal and then the motor terminals blue wire comes back to the frontal ground buss.
YEA, way to go . . . . on the wire color coding . . . . . manufacturer !

Now is also a good time to give me the numbers of all of those 4 color designated transistors . . . . and they just all might of be the same type.
We know that the RED one is being used for the motor driver transistor and I can account for another 1 or 2 being associated with creating a 1.5 VDC power supply for running the clock unit when using a power adapter.

BTW look at the power adapter connector and see if only 2 wires are connected to it or is it having 3 ?
If using only 2 wires , that then accounts for the need / use of the larger black series steering diode located at the two black wires end of the board.

Time out . . . . .Thaaaaaaaaaaaasssit . . . . . .

73's de Edd . . . . .



Every day, thousands of innocent plants are being killed by vegans.
Help end that violence . . . . . . . . . eat Bacon !



.
 
Last edited:

Iguanaman

Oct 14, 2022
34
Joined
Oct 14, 2022
Messages
34

Sir @Iguanaman . . . . .​


Chapter 3 . . . . .

Well . . . . .so much for an easy fix . . . . . . with a bad solder joint .
I had to double check and yes, there is still a PINK circle around the pad that the GREEN lined resistor uses for its bottom connection and then a foil goes left . . .very slightly . . . to connect to the B solder blob.
I was wanting to completely eliminate having to make a connection into questionable solder blob B.
You need to try this test again, incorporating that PINK circle point this time..
Now have we ascertained that the clock dial is ALWAYS running and never stops.
Because, it seems like we have already accounted for everything that happens during a 1 minute ball drop cycle.
E.G. . . . . .
The clock needs to be running and rotate to that 00 time where the timer discs mounted magnet engages the magnetic reed switch***.
That then needs the continuity of its two yellow wires to the circuit board. One wire connects to the base of the driver transistor and the other wire connects to one end of a GREEN line resistor which is used to supply a base turn on drive voltage for the RED motor drive transistor.
The initial reed switch start up action should get the ball move arm off from its dormant park position and then the closing of its associated micro switch will keep the motor running until it has rotated back to parking position and then the opened micro switch cuts off the motor.
If that ball moving arm always completes its complete circle back to park, we mush have no fault with its micro switch or wiring path.
***The magnetic reed switch was first used by Ma Bell for telephone fast switching networks and it was reconstructed having a surrounding bobbin of fine wire to create an electromagnet and then the creation of a reed relay.
Now the the reed switch proper is built in a glass vial and having a final seal at both ends and the two internal magnetic reeds are gold flashed and then the contact areas receive an additional contact enhancing iridium, rhodium or ruthenium coating then a vacuum is pulled on the glass vial and a nitrogen refill and sealing of the glass vial.
If used for low power switching they are X-STREAM-ELLY reliable, with actions measured in 100's of millions of contact closures.
Since this switch is only handling a mere base bias switching of ~9 ma.

Another consideration might be within the motor proper and a wearing down of the brushes down to an iffy contact pressure into the commutator.
Or a burning / oxidation or blackening of the commutator segments giving iffy contact action.

If your RED circle is showing where you shorted across, to make the drive motor start, then that is being between Collector and Base of your RED motor drive transistor and BOY should that activate that transistor ! and get the motor running.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm . . .get your motor running . . . . time out . . . . SOUND BITE . . . a Blast from the Past !
https://soundcloud.com/chipmunkcheeks228%2Fsteppenwolf-born-to-be-wild
A Continuance . . . .

Now in the past, if that motor started EVERY time you did that temporary RED circle shorting action, seems like the motor would be faultless.
With a like possibility of the RED driver transistor also not being intermittent / faulty .
We are now getting down to needing to go to the bottom end of the GREEN line resistor and the need to have a voltmeter and connect its black ground lead to the boards ground buss foil all across the top side of the board or the motor end also, as being a metering negative ground reference and then touch the RED lead to the PINK circle connection and take reference to that voltage when powered is connected onto the clock.
Then in further testing and the experiencing of an expected shut down of the unit, check and see if that voltage is STILL being present . Because . . . . . that voltage getting to the base of the RED transistor via the yellow switching wiring initiates a single minute marble cycling.

That now just about covers all of the most pertinent possibilities left .
Question:
Doesn't a ball cycling arm rotation take about 5 seconds or less ? . . . . . . . . then its sit and wait 'til another 00.
ERRATA:
On my last labeling of the motor leads I saw the connections, but later on, then typed them in inversely.
The driver transistor goes in with its power to the burnt black wire and on to the motor terminal and then the motor terminals blue wire comes back to the frontal ground buss.
YEA, way to go . . . . on the wire color coding . . . . . manufacturer !

Now is also a good time to give me the numbers of all of those 4 color designated transistors . . . . and they just all might of be the same type.
We know that the RED one is being used for the motor driver transistor and I can account for another 1 or 2 being associated with creating a 1.5 VDC power supply for running the clock unit when using a power adapter.

BTW look at the power adapter connector and see if only 2 wires are connected to it or is it having 3 ?
If using only 2 wires , that then accounts for the need / use of the larger black series steering diode located at the two black wires end of the board.

Time out . . . . .Thaaaaaaaaaaaasssit . . . . . .

73's de Edd . . . . .



Every day, thousands of innocent plants are being killed by vegans.
Help end that violence . . . . . . . . . eat Bacon !



.
Tried with the pink circle but still no dice.
Only two wires for the power adapter.

Transistor numbers using colors you assigned
Red S9014 C 202
Yellow S9014 C 202
Green S9014 C 202
Blue S9014 C 201 (only one that is C 201)

The reflection on the middle one is making it hard to see in this image but it is the same as the other two
 

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