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Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E

I can think of a particular aspect of digital storage that, AFAIK, analog
storage can't do. With digital storage, one can examine the signal BEFORE the
trigger point. Has there ever been an analog storage scope that could do that?

Sure. Have you ever heard of delay lines? Also, delaying timebases were
commonly used to look "before" the trigger event. There are applications
where I'd still like a calibrated delayed timebase.
 
F

fritz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Speaking of which, have you looked in a mirror lately, Mr. Pot?

You are both ignorant AND stupid.
Probably a stupid Xtian to boot!!
Ignorance personified.

Read it AGAIN and weep, YOU ARE THE ignorant fool.


Really? You think everyone's personal information should be freely
available?

I thought you were just stupid, now I AM SURE YOU ARE AN IDIOT:
read AGAIN WHAT I HAVE POSTED AND YOUR STUPID RESPONSE:
 
You are both ignorant AND stupid.
Probably a stupid Xtian to boot!!

Ah, isn't the stupid little bigot cute.
Read it AGAIN and weep, YOU ARE THE ignorant fool.

DimBulb, that you?
I thought you were just stupid, now I AM SURE YOU ARE AN IDIOT:
read AGAIN WHAT I HAVE POSTED AND YOUR STUPID RESPONSE:

You said that all information should be freely available. Now you accuse me
of being stupid because I pointed out *one* of thousands of reasons this is a
*STUPID* idea. That's rich!
 
I do not know what a Xtian is. So I cannot say. But your strategy for
argument seems to be to take an extreme position and then call anyone
who tries to point out the inconsistencies you extreme position silly
names.

Name calling. In capital letters to boot!




I see your argument style.

Step one: call person fool in mostly lower case letters
Step 2. Call them fool in a fair amount of upper case letters
Step 3. Call them idiot in all upper case letters
Step 4. Swearing in upper case?

Can't say its an original argument style. But it is pretty unique on
this board.

Surely you're forgetting AlwaysWrong.
 
I am sorry to spoil your night, but those insults were directed
towards me, not you.

Perhaps he doesn't know how to read either (there's a lot of that going around
with the atheistic bigots lately), but he's answering my post (with my words
"answered"). You're welcome to the stupid bigot if it makes you feel better
though. ;-)
 
the Bible proves itself to be truer to me every day. I never fully
appreciated this bible verse until recently:

I'm happy for you.
"The fool has said in his heart there is no god"

The bigger fool tries to take away another's god because he has none for
himself.
I have never seen so many intellectually dishonest people that cannot
carry on a two sided conversation in my whole life.

One needs to be able to listen (read) to carry on a two-way conversation.
Clearly that's not the case with "fritz" and ditz (from BC).
 
As the inventor of AlwaysWrong (a lineal descendent of the equally
hilarious Massive Prong) I took care to mix cases in an artistic
manner.

Did you patent AlwaysWrong? You should have kept him a trade secret!

BTW, I named the doof "DimBulb" years before AlwaysWrong, though I have to
admit I've used the latter more frequently since.
 
R

Ross Vumbaca

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone dumb enough to ask simply cannot comprehend any answer that can be
posted.

I'm a student, and we don't use analogue scopes at Uni, so I don't know
much about them.

Most comparison websites do not list actual examples of when an analogue
scope is better and suggest that digital scopes are a replacement for
practically all applications.

Ross..
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sure. Have you ever heard of delay lines? Also, delaying timebases were
commonly used to look "before" the trigger event. There are applications
where I'd still like a calibrated delayed timebase.

You are right. I have done things (been able to see things) with delayedsweep
that i still cannot duplicate with a digital scope. And that is with a mere 100
MHz bandwidth.

Digital scope manufacturers, you now have a well defined target to accomplish.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Iwatsu SS-7847A is a very good oscilloscope and less old than the
2465.

The Tek 2465 has not been made for many years, the only ones available
are used. And guess what, they are a damn sight less than $12000. My
current use is more like (kind of well off) expert hobbyist. Guess
which one fits my needs best.
 
Delay lines can't store milliseconds of pre-trigger data. The best
they do is let you see a few ns of pre-trigger waveform.

Enough to see what caused the trigger (and more than a few nS in some cases).
Yes, DSOs are useful tools. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. The
question was more about the utility of analog scopes, given that cheap DSOs
are available.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
This one is very nifty, but looking at the block diagram in the downloadable
"technology" pdf file, it appears that the only way to watch more than one
channel at a time is in alternate or chopped mode. Also, unlike digital
storage, one can't look at events before the trigger point.
You sound as if this some kind of news. Having grown up with analog scopes,
pretrigger recording is just not that big a thing for me.
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
Delay lines can't store milliseconds of pre-trigger data. The best
they do is let you see a few ns of pre-trigger waveform.

John John John,

That's what entire spools of foamed teflon coax are for! ;-)

Man, I can just imagine how many hours of cocaine you could buy for the
price of a few microseconds of that sort of stuff. Seems kind of
disappointing.

Tim
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Delay lines can't store milliseconds of pre-trigger data. The best
Enough to see what caused the trigger (and more than a few nS in some
cases).

One case where a DSO comes in handy:
http://myweb.msoe.edu/williamstm/Images/Induction1203.jpg
something was clicking erratically, possibly a gate drive, I'm guessing it
stuck on for at most a few cycles. Bad sign, and the clicking means
magnetics, or worse yet, sheer amperes, are causing audible movement of
wires or capacitors. You can see a number of cycles on this exposure, where
current (bottom, triggered) is going wild, and you can see some voltage
steps where the coupling capacitor got charged by this action. But without
a pretrigger on the order of microseconds, I can't very well see when it's
misbehaving.

Tim
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are both ignorant AND stupid.
Censorship IS black and white, my ignorant AND stupid friend.

Calling me ignorant and stupid does not enhance your argument.
I have given far more thought to the topic than you have, for many
years, you seem to be wet behind the ears, a young fool who has no
experience of what censorship really means.

If you have thought about this for many years and come to the
conclusion that you are totally opposed [to all government] censorship
then you are not very bright.

You cannot allow ANY government to control the access to information.

That is so silly as to be laughable.
Access to information is controlled all the time. For instance, I am
not going to have access to nuclear launch codes. If I have a Top
Secret Security Clearance I am automatically going along with the
concept of government censorship and not pass along government
information to others.

You seem to be completely confused about the differences between
censorship, privacy, and secrecy. That should be damn embarrassing
for someone that actually holds a secret clearance.
When a person enters an airport they are immediately in a censored
state. Perhaps you think that every single person SHOULD be allowed
to go into an airplane and start saying whatever they want like "I
have a bomb", but that will pretty much get you tossed in prison
without very many people (except perhaps you) wringing their hands
about excessive government censorship.

And here you are discussing stupidity.
And to think you have spent countless years thinking about this stuff
and none of these simple ideas ever crossed your mind???? I have only
been thinking about this for a few hours and already I can realize
that no government censorship at all is a really really simple minded
idea.
All the years you have spent "thinking" about this stuff have been
amazingly unfruitful.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why did you feel the need to include two out of your three sentences
to reassure me that the programs _would_ be censored?

No, i am talking about established track record. It was tried and got
almost zero market share.
OK, the second sentence needs the word "again" added after "happen".
 
F

fritz

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are both ignorant AND stupid.
Probably a stupid Xtian to boot!!

I do not know what a Xtian is. So I cannot say. But your strategy for
argument seems to be to take an extreme position and then call anyone
who tries to point out the inconsistencies you extreme position silly
names.

It doesn't take an Einstein to work out what Xtian means.

Read it AGAIN and weep, YOU ARE THE ignorant fool.

Name calling. In capital letters to boot!

I call a spade a fucking shovel, sorry if you are such a wimp and
have never met a real Aussie.
I thought you were just stupid, now I AM SURE YOU ARE AN IDIOT:
read AGAIN WHAT I HAVE POSTED AND YOUR STUPID RESPONSE:


I see your argument style.

It's simple - rattle the cage when it is necessary to point out that you are
unable to respond to the points raised.
You have not defended censorship at all, was that your intention ?
 
F

fritz

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ah, isn't the stupid little bigot cute.


DimBulb, that you?

No, you are wrong again. I have never heard of DimBulb.
You said that all information should be freely available. Now you accuse
me
of being stupid because I pointed out *one* of thousands of reasons this
is a
*STUPID* idea. That's rich!

Yes my ignorant friend, but you are seeking to distort the right to freedom
of information
with the right to privacy.
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Phantom said:
With a more realistic propagation
velocity, this is something like 500 miles of coax. How many analog
storage
scopes used this technique?

Dunno, probably none. But notice my post concerned pre-trigger data (quote
retained above), which can be obtained for a short period (100s ns?) without
*too* much cable.

Trying to bring that into the storage domain would be difficult at least.
Even for hardline, HF loss on long lengths gets considerable, which suggests
zobel filters to correct it, weakening the signal and probably adding lots
of even harder to compensate group delay. And this says nothing of trying
to regenerate the signal without distortion for more than a few cycles
through the line, something which can only be done consistently with an
ADC-buffer-DAC. It is for this absurdity that I inserted a "wink" smiley,
which should be clearly visible.

Anyways, analog storage scopes used fancy CRTs, which allows a spacial
representation, much easier to maintain an image despite distortion.

Tim
 
F

fritz

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are both ignorant AND stupid.
Censorship IS black and white, my ignorant AND stupid friend.

Calling me ignorant and stupid does not enhance your argument.

Nevertheless it is an accurate description of you.
I have given far more thought to the topic than you have, for many
years, you seem to be wet behind the ears, a young fool who has no
experience of what censorship really means.

If you have thought about this for many years and come to the
conclusion that you are totally opposed [to all government] censorship
then you are not very bright.

You are distorting the censorship debate by introducing what is
obviously irrelevant.
You cannot allow ANY government to control the access to information.

That is so silly as to be laughable.


Access to information is controlled all the time. For instance, I am
not going to have access to nuclear launch codes. If I have a Top
Secret Security Clearance I am automatically going along with the
concept of government censorship and not pass along government
information to others.

When a person enters an airport they are immediately in a censored
state. Perhaps you think that every single person SHOULD be allowed
to go into an airplane and start saying whatever they want like "I
have a bomb", but that will pretty much get you tossed in prison
without very many people (except perhaps you) wringing their hands
about excessive government censorship.

For ****'s sake, grow up and stop confusing censorship with security.

And to think you have spent countless years thinking about this stuff
and none of these simple ideas ever crossed your mind???? I have only
been thinking about this for a few hours and already I can realize
that no government censorship at all is a really really simple minded
idea.

Think about it a bit further, it might take someone like you longer to
understand why censoring Internet sites is the opposite of freedom.
 
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