# Turntable skipping--suggestions?

E

#### EvanInJH

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sorry for the cross post.

I have a Technics SL-3200 direct drive automatic turntable. I have
been wrestling with a skipping problem for a long time now and am
looking for suggestions.

The turntable is level, sitting on a nice, heavy table. I have a brand
new needle for it (Stanton 500 AL II) and the tone arm is calibrated.
If I'm completely still, records track wonderfully and sound great.
But if I walk on the floor, even tip-toe, I can send it into paroxysms
of skipping. I have the weight all the way up and the anti-skating to
match. Even with a quarter on top of the head shell I can have
problems! Any ideas? Are there any other adjustments I can make? Do I
need to take it in for repair? If so, I live in Queens, NY -- if
anyone has any suggestions for repair people or shops.

Thanks,
Evan

R

#### Randy and/or Sherry

Jan 1, 1970
0
EvanInJH wrote:
....
But if I walk on the floor, even tip-toe, I can send it into paroxysms
of skipping. I have the weight all the way up and the anti-skating to
match. Even with a quarter on top of the head shell I can have
Any ideas?

Yeah - put the transit screws back in it (usually big green-headed).
(Some) Panasonic suspensions are particularly susceptible to "wood floor
resonance bounce"... particularly bad in many old houses. Locking down
the floating carriage with the transport screws usually fixes the problem.

I've a 1300 that suffers the same problem - yet with the transport
screws in it - it'll track at 1.5 gram perfectly - even if I walk right
by it.

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

R

#### Randy and/or Sherry

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sven said:
Transit screws?

I also have a 1200 and it doesn't do that skipping. And I don't remember
it having any transit screws when I unpacked it.

They are (supposed to be) under the platter - i.e. you remove them
before you install the platter - as noted they are usually big green
headed screws - (3 of them) and hold the entire upper deck down to the
lower section. In the 1300s - they are (approximately) at 12:30; 4:00
and 8:00 as you normally look at the unit - IIRC - they are about the
same in the 1200s. When the 12/1300 series are "floating" they have a
rather strange amount of suspended mass - that - well it reminds me of a
lot of late 50's cars on L.A. freeways - they were "tuned" just "wrong"
so that at 60MPH the whole car would get into this bouncing rhythm on
certain sections of freeways (The Santa Ana was particularly bad- as was
the Harbor) that would about launch you out of your seat... Some of
these Panasonics sorta react to older "spongy" floors the same way ---
way more exaggerated reaction than you'd ever suspect...

As noted - just putting the transit screws back in solves it a lot of
the time (unless the floor is REALLY bad - but then I'd wonder about
walking on such a floor at all anyway).

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

J

#### jakdedert

Jan 1, 1970
0
I believe he said he had it cranked all the way up and put a quarter on top
of the head shell as well. Definitely something wrong...both with the
turntable, and now with the cartridge/stylus...not to any records he played
like that.

I'm guessing the stylus is bottoming out and the cartridge itself is
cotacting the records.

jak

S

#### Sofie

Jan 1, 1970
0
EvanInJH:
I was at home when I first replied to your post, but I am at my shop
now..... I just checked my "book" and checked the factory recommended
tracking force the Stanton 500AL stylus (#D5107AL .7 mil conical).....
this particular stylus is NOT a good match for your very good turntable.....
Stanton recommends 3 to 7 grams of tracking force. A much better stylus for
your series Stanton 500 cartridge would be the (D5100EE .3 x .7 mil
elliptical) which tracks at 1 to 2 grams..( I would set it for the higher
part of that range. Your Techniques turntable will accommodate this lower
tracking force much better..... I doubt the tracking force calibration ring
on the back of the Techniques tone arm and the anti-skate adjustment goes
past 2.5 or 3 grams.
If you have difficulty finding a proper Stanton replacement stylus you may
want to replace the entire cartridge and stylus with a new low tracking
force model...... in the range of 1.5 to 2.0 grams. Stay away from
anything much under 1.25 grams...... any lighter than that you may have
problems unless everything is PERFECT..... and never set the tracking force
for less than what the manufacturer says..... stay in the MIDDLE or high end
of their range.

S

#### Sven Franklyn Weil

Jan 1, 1970
0
tracking force much better..... I doubt the tracking force calibration ring
on the back of the Techniques tone arm and the anti-skate adjustment goes

A quick note: The Technics 1200 arm has an additional counter weight you
can screw into the back of your tone arm. Then there are also thin
Of course if you don't need these things when you're installing your first
cartridge, they invariably get lost.

Thanks Daniel, the info you provided was very useful.

By the way, what is your opinion regarding the Shure M44G cart.?

C

#### Clifton T. Sharp Jr.

Jan 1, 1970
0
EvanInJH said:
The turntable is level, sitting on a nice, heavy table. I have a brand
new needle for it (Stanton 500 AL II) and the tone arm is calibrated.
If I'm completely still, records track wonderfully and sound great.
But if I walk on the floor, even tip-toe, I can send it into paroxysms
of skipping. I have the weight all the way up and the anti-skating to
match. Even with a quarter on top of the head shell I can have
problems! Any ideas? Are there any other adjustments I can make? Do I
need to take it in for repair? If so, I live in Queens, NY -- if
anyone has any suggestions for repair people or shops.

Set it to zero grams and see if the tonearm is parallel to the turntable.
If not, the arm is NOT calibrated.

D

#### Don

Jan 1, 1970
0
Put it on a self attached to a wall. They don't bounce like floors.

B

#### Buck Frobisher

Jan 1, 1970
0
___________________________________________________
Put it on a self attached to a wall. They don't bounce like floors.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
The dead giveaway was when he said that if he walks around it skips! Set it
up like it was supposed to be set up and don't fool with the suspension, it
sounds like it's working well.

And yes, get a better cartridge and learn how to balance the arm and set the
tracking and anti-skating force.

But put it on a shelf on the wall first, or move to a place with concrete
floors.

W

#### william_b_noble

Jan 1, 1970
0
resonance between the floor and the TT - common problem - you need
isolators - you can go cheap or expensive -
cheap - make layers - layer of rubber, then a pair of cinderblocks, then a
layer of rubber, then ...

Don said:
Put it on a self attached to a wall. They don't bounce like floors.

H

#### Harv

Jan 1, 1970
0
Speaking of tracking force, I own and use a Technics SL-B2 semi automatic
belt drive turntable, bought new geezus, late 1970s? Early 1980s? Anyway, it
still looks like new and works just fine..

In it I run a Shure M95ED/D cartridge, the model that has a little tiny
floating brush ahead of the stylus and a flip down stylus guard.

http://www.harvlaser.com/files/pics/shure.jpg

(I made this picture some months back to illustrate what a cartridge was to
a vinyl newbie)..

The box the cartridge came in along with its instruction sheet is long gone,
although I still have the tiny screwdriver that came with it.. I think I
paid somewhere between $60 and$75 for the cartridge new way back when..
ever..

I have searched high and low, hither and yon (they had some pretty good
restaurants in yon but ya gotta watch out for those speed traps in
hither..).. but can't find the tracking force specs for this model. I
Vega\$ly remember 1.25 grams, so I have both the tonearm's counterweight and

Since Usenet is a magic machine into which you can type almost any question
and get an accurate answer, wild assed guesses or dumb looks (flip a three
sided coin), do any of you out there know where specs on old(er) Shure
cartridges might live, or ::gasp:: actually possess such a chart or even an
old issue of High Fidelity or Stereo Review with one of them them head to
head cartridge road test comparisons, so I can verify I am using the right
numbers?

Thanks

E

#### EvanInJH

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thank you for all the helpful suggestions. I thought the transit screw
solution was promising, which I remember from my previous turntable.
However, I couldn't find them on this turntable (a Technics 3200, not
a 1200, incidentally). There is only a tiny amount of give in the
suspension of the turntable itself, the rest seems to come from the
sprung feet, which seem to work OK. I bought the turntable used a
couple of years ago, it's hard to say what happened to some of these
things. Perhaps the suspension is not released, but I can't figure out
how to release it. The way others described this situation sounded
very much like my problem.

Regarding the cartridge / stylus, I used to have a D6800EL-II and it
gave me the same problems. The 500 calibrates very close to the
maximum weight, I can only get about 1.5 grams out of it, so maybe I
do just have a bad cartridge for the specific turntable. Daniel Sofie
is right -- the tone arm doesn't go past 3 grams. (PS Any idea where I
could buy a D5100EE? I don't see it listed on the needle doctor web
site, and most of the shops I've been to in NY have a limited
selection).

I also do have wood floors and live in an old apartment building. It's
sort of like a trampoline. The shelf idea is a possibility, although
it always seemed to me that the foam / rubber or building a shelf
solution seemed extreme, and covering up something wrong with the
turntable system itself. When I know people who set up there
turntables on card tables and have dance parties, and there's no
skipping, it seems crazy that tiptoeing around my apartment in bare
feet should do anything, let alone send my needle careening around.
But maybe that's just my (considerable) naivete talking ...

So at this point I have three strikes against me ... the suspension,
wrong needle, and the wood floors. This is starting to make sense.

If anyone has any suggestions for repair people / shops in the NYC
area, I'd be most appreciative at this point. Obviously, my experience
is limited so some of the more technical solutions are beyond me ("Is
there any play in the tonearm gimbal in either plane?")

Thanks again,
Evan

S

#### Sven Franklyn Weil

Jan 1, 1970
0
is limited so some of the more technical solutions are beyond me ("Is
there any play in the tonearm gimbal in either plane?")

Evan, to put it in plain English:

Does the tone-arm jiggle and wiggle when you try to move it back & forth
(front to back)?

If so, that's not good. I've seen a lot of cheap-ass portable players
with the ceramic cartridges at J&R.

The arm is a thin plastic rod mounted on a plastic base with a universal
joint (up down/sideways) made out of plastic with a metal pin holding the
whole thing together.

H

#### Harv

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sofie said:
Harv:

Yes..... your research is valid. A stylus force setting of 1.25 grams is

[rest snipped to save precious bytes]..

Thank you very much, Daniel.. yes it is a damn nice cartridge for the money
and I semi disremembered it being just one step down the ladder from the
Shure V-15 at the time I bought it. The V-15 was like twice or three times
the price, I think.. Funny you mention the M91ED too since I had a Pioneer
manual belt drive turntable I sold to a friend that had one of those in it..
I was always a fan of Shure cartridges back when I was buying and trading in
home computers existed .. I just keep using the stuff I bought long ago
and it just keeps working fine.. I'll leave it set at 1.25. Once in a while
I pull a couple rather valuable MFSL UHQRs I own out of my stash to play
them for friends, or the albums in my MFSL Stones Black Box, and the last
thing I want to do is damage those babies.. they're worth some serious
freakin' money..

Harv

S

#### Sven Franklyn Weil

Jan 1, 1970
0
I pull a couple rather valuable MFSL UHQRs I own out of my stash to play

Whazza MFSL UHQR?

L

#### Laurence Payne

Jan 1, 1970
0
I also do have wood floors and live in an old apartment building. It's
sort of like a trampoline. The shelf idea is a possibility, although
it always seemed to me that the foam / rubber or building a shelf
solution seemed extreme, and covering up something wrong with the
turntable system itself. When I know people who set up there
turntables on card tables and have dance parties, and there's no
skipping, it seems crazy that tiptoeing around my apartment in bare
feet should do anything, let alone send my needle careening around.
But maybe that's just my (considerable) naivete talking ...

Well, how bad IS your floor? As you walk around do glasses rattle,
small objects fall off tables?

M

#### Mark D. Zacharias

Jan 1, 1970
0
If there are mounting screws in place, they are probably located UNDERNEATH
the platter.

Mark Z.

W

#### William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Ultra HIgh Quality Recording.

Mobile Fidelity was an audiophile label that originally specialized in
recordings of trains, thunderstorms, etc. They later produced very high quality
LPs of popular albums licensed from the original label -- mostly jazz and rock.

W

#### William Sommerwerck

Jan 1, 1970
0
I remember seeing a timer you could stick on the
plinth of one's turntable to keep track of how many
hours a stylus had been used.

It was sold by Stanton. It used a coulometer driven by a hearing-aid cell. When
you lifted the arm, a switch closed to turn on the coulometer.

So I don't have to post again... A coulometer is a tiny "plating tank" in which
a voltage moves material from one end to the other.

J

#### Jeffrey D Angus

Jan 1, 1970
0
William said:
So I don't have to post again... A coulometer is a tiny "plating tank" in which
a voltage moves material from one end to the other.

I remember those, HP used to put them on some of thier equipment.
A gray plastic housing, about 5/16" square and 1-1/2" long.
A window with a tiny glass rod that would turn silver, obscuring
the red background.

Jeff