vacuum pump help

D

[email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
i hope somebody can help me. i bought a doerr pump at a garage sale the
other day. they guy tol dme it had never been used but tis a little
old. it has a strange plug almost looks like a 240 volt. but the pump
says that its 115v. i know very little about motors! when i connect it
to my outlet with some wires.. it makes a humming noise and starts to
heat up. the motor is defineitly not spinning. im pretty sure the pump
works, im just doing something wrong. any ideas? the following is on
the pump patent:3311293 insul class a 5.4 A 60HZ 1725 rpm 1/4 hp mod no
0522v103c(?)186 single phase mtr ref 50156aa733 fr h487. thanks for

L

Lord Garth

Jan 1, 1970
0
i hope somebody can help me. i bought a doerr pump at a garage sale the
other day. they guy tol dme it had never been used but tis a little
old. it has a strange plug almost looks like a 240 volt. but the pump
says that its 115v. i know very little about motors! when i connect it
to my outlet with some wires.. it makes a humming noise and starts to
heat up. the motor is defineitly not spinning. im pretty sure the pump
works, im just doing something wrong. any ideas? the following is on
the pump patent:3311293 insul class a 5.4 A 60HZ 1725 rpm 1/4 hp mod no
0522v103c(?)186 single phase mtr ref 50156aa733 fr h487. thanks for

The motor might have a bad start capacitor. However, you have not said
what type of motor is on the pump. The motor could be a universal type
or an inductive type. The universal type has brushes and a commutator ring.
That would be the type with a capacitor for startup.

L

Larry Brasfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
i hope somebody can help me. i bought a doerr pump at a garage sale the
other day. they guy tol dme it had never been used but tis a little
old. it has a strange plug almost looks like a 240 volt. but the pump
says that its 115v. i know very little about motors! when i connect it
to my outlet with some wires.. it makes a humming noise and starts to
heat up. the motor is defineitly not spinning. im pretty sure the pump
works, im just doing something wrong. any ideas? the following is on
the pump patent:3311293 insul class a 5.4 A 60HZ 1725 rpm 1/4 hp mod no
0522v103c(?)186 single phase mtr ref 50156aa733 fr h487. thanks for

I've not looked up your motor, but suggest this:

Be sure that your motor is not supposed to be driven
from 3 phase power. Giving single phase power to
such a device is a recipe for nothing good and maybe
a ruined motor. That plug may well be intended for
a 3 phase connection. (The "single phase mtr" you
quote suggests otherwise, but a 1/4 horsepower
motor should not need an unusual plug just to get
single phase 115 VAC.)

If you become convinced it is really a single phase
motor, see if there is a "starter capacitor" on the motor.
This device, when present, is often concealed in a little
hump that breaks the more rounded outline of the
motor housing. It may have gone bad with age. One
symptom of its failure is failure to start rotating along
with some buzzing and excess heating. (However, such
motors generally have an overload cutout switch that
will click in an out during the stall.)

D

[email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
thank you very much for the replys! im goign to go open up what i think
may be the capacitor casing. how can i tell if the capacitor is any
good? the only electrical meter i have is for measuring resistence. im
thinking the plug may be weird because of the motors age??? thanks again

L

Larry Brasfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
thank you very much for the replys! im goign to go open up what i think
may be the capacitor casing. how can i tell if the capacitor is any
good? the only electrical meter i have is for measuring resistence. im
thinking the plug may be weird because of the motors age??? thanks again

If you can temporarily unload the motor, (so it need
not drive anything), power it up, give its shaft a good
spin by hand or wound rope to get it started, then, if
it runs fast without overheating, the chances are very
good that just replacing that starting cap will solve any
problem at the motor. It could be that it is stalling due
to congealed lubricant or something in the mechanism.
It would not hurt to get that rotating as freely as you can.

D

[email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
i took out what i think is the capacitor. it has two wires going into
it and one other place where a wire can be connected. the back of it
(opposite the wires) is open and there is a metal disk that has a screw
righ tin the middle (variable?). like i said i have no idea what im
talking about lol. im not seeing any units of capacitence or anything
really. it does say pat 2585704 & others. also says klixon and
mee26rx-368 each terminal is numberd 1-3 thanks for your help! id hate
to see an expensive pump (that i got for $20 ) go to waste! L Larry Brasfield Jan 1, 1970 0 i took out what i think is the capacitor. it has two wires going into it and one other place where a wire can be connected. the back of it (opposite the wires) is open and there is a metal disk that has a screw righ tin the middle (variable?). like i said i have no idea what im talking about lol. im not seeing any units of capacitence or anything really. it does say pat 2585704 & others. also says klixon and mee26rx-368 each terminal is numberd 1-3 thanks for your help! id hate to see an expensive pump (that i got for$20 ) go to waste!

I could not find that patent # at http://www.uspto.gov/ .

The middle screw is probably for mounting. There
should be some kind of marking for the capacitance.
(Or maybe not that long ago.) If you take the part
to an appliance repair place, and tell them it is for an
old 1/4 HP motor, they may be able to find another
starter cap that would work.

But before replacing it, (unless you want to just go
ahead and spend money), I would try the free-running
hand-start experiment. If the motor will not run under
those conditions, it needs more help than a new cap.

L

Larry Brasfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
Larry Brasfield said:
I could not find that patent # at http://www.uspto.gov/ .

Woops, wrong search function. That patent appears
to have been issued in 1952 for a thermostat device.
I'm guessing it is the motor's thermal cutout for when
the starting or main winding overheats.

The only real use of this info is that it dates the motor.
That starting cap is very likely dried out a half century
later. I would replace it without further ado.

D

Don Bruder

Jan 1, 1970
0
thank you very much for the replys! im goign to go open up what i think
may be the capacitor casing. how can i tell if the capacitor is any
good? the only electrical meter i have is for measuring resistence. im
thinking the plug may be weird because of the motors age??? thanks again

Please attempt to describe (or better yet, if you've got the gear to do
so, snap a good clear picture of it, jpeg it down to a reasonable size
and put it online someplace, then post a pointer to it here) the plug a
bit better than "weird"?

Two vertical blades? One vertical, one horizontal? Both horizontal?
Three blades in a roughly circular pattern? Two round pins? Four blades
in a circle? Two *LARGE* blades plus a largish round pin? One blade
vertical, the other blade an "L" shape, plus a round pin? Something else?

Knowing *EXACTLY* what the plug looks like *CAN* (unfortunately, not
"will") give a good idea of what kind of juice it wants, but describing
it as "weird" is just about as useful as a screen door on a submarine in
terms of figuring out what it expects to be fed.

And as a bit of advice: If you need to ask "How can I tell if a
capacitor is any good?", then quite frankly (and with apologies in
advance for what's probably going to sound like a slam or a putdown, but
isn't intended to be one) you aren't qualified to consider opening the
beast up, and you should make no attempt to do so unless you don't care
that you'll probably screw something up (possibly including yourself...
Electricity's "bite" is MUCH worse than its "bark") beyond repair.

You've already gone FAR beyond what I'd recommend for anyone with what
your level of expertise seems to be by dinking around trying to run it
from an wires jury-rigged to an incompatible socket. Hell, to lay it all
out there for everyone to see, you've already gone further than *I*
would have, and I'm far from being a beginner at the electricity and
electronics game. If you're lucky, you didn't damage it. If you're not,
you may well have "smoke-tested" it, and it's never going to run no
matter what you do. The very fact that you need to ask "how do I..."
says that you're tinkering with something you don't have the proper
knowledge to be messing around with without standing a very good chance
of trashing it.

As I said, this isn't intended as a slam or putdown - It's simple
statement of fact. The need to ask "how do I..." about such a basic
concept as determining whether a capacitor is good or bad is almost
always an indicator of someone who is "in way over his head". Don't
despair, though... Stupidity might be forever, but simple ignorance such
as you're displaying can be easily cured with a dose of edgyookayshun

Set up your meter for high ohms - 20K or thereabouts should be fine.
Once you've gotten to the leads of the capacitor, use a screwdriver with
a well-imsulated handle to short the leads of the capacitor together.
Get yourself mentally prepared for a miniature lightning bolt to go off
when the screwdriver makes contact. Eyeball the capacitor - Does it have
a polarity marking? (Usually a plus or a minus sign, possibly a line of
them, situated near one of the leads) If so, observe polarity - red/plus
to plus, black/minus to either minus or the other lead from the
capacitor - and touch the probes to the capacitor lead. If the cap isn't
totally dead, you should see almost zero ohms at first, then rising to a
higher value.

If you see that, leave the probes in place for a few seconds, then
remove them, switch your meter to read volts (20 will probably be
overkill, but if you've got a higher range, start there, and work down
until you get a reading) and touch the probes to the capacitor leads
again. You should see an initial high value that slowly drops to zero.

If either of these tests doesn't do what I told you would happen, then
the cap is probably toast, and you'll need a new one. If they both work
as described, put the lid back on. It's at least acting as a capacitor
should, regardless of whether age has sent it "off value" or not, and it
probably isn't the source of your problem.

D

[email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
thank you everyone so much! i got it running and ive never been
happier! the problem was actualy not electrical. the piece that coverd
the rotary end of the motor (i think thats right lol) was on way way
way to tight (i didnt do it) after taking the whole thing apart and
cleaning it its running fine. however, a graphite blade is broken and
so the pump does not actualy pump any air its such a simple piece
does anyone know where i could find a new one? thanks once again! oh
and btw thanks for all the warnings about working with something i dont
know anything about lol. i actualy did know that you can discharge a
capacitor by setting a screw driver across the terminals but i hoped
there was a safer way! havnt done that since i made my first tesla coil!

J

John G

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Bruder said:
Please attempt to describe (or better yet, if you've got the gear to
do
so, snap a good clear picture of it, jpeg it down to a reasonable size
and put it online someplace, then post a pointer to it here) the plug
a
bit better than "weird"?

Two vertical blades? One vertical, one horizontal? Both horizontal?
Three blades in a roughly circular pattern? Two round pins? Four
in a circle? Two *LARGE* blades plus a largish round pin? One blade
vertical, the other blade an "L" shape, plus a round pin? Something
else?

Knowing *EXACTLY* what the plug looks like *CAN* (unfortunately, not
"will") give a good idea of what kind of juice it wants, but
describing
it as "weird" is just about as useful as a screen door on a submarine
in
terms of figuring out what it expects to be fed.

And as a bit of advice: If you need to ask "How can I tell if a
capacitor is any good?", then quite frankly (and with apologies in
advance for what's probably going to sound like a slam or a putdown,
but
isn't intended to be one) you aren't qualified to consider opening the
beast up, and you should make no attempt to do so unless you don't
care
that you'll probably screw something up (possibly including
yourself...
Electricity's "bite" is MUCH worse than its "bark") beyond repair.

You've already gone FAR beyond what I'd recommend for anyone with what
your level of expertise seems to be by dinking around trying to run it
from an wires jury-rigged to an incompatible socket. Hell, to lay it
all
out there for everyone to see, you've already gone further than *I*
would have, and I'm far from being a beginner at the electricity and
electronics game. If you're lucky, you didn't damage it. If you're
not,
you may well have "smoke-tested" it, and it's never going to run no
matter what you do. The very fact that you need to ask "how do I..."
says that you're tinkering with something you don't have the proper
knowledge to be messing around with without standing a very good
chance
of trashing it.

As I said, this isn't intended as a slam or putdown - It's simple
statement of fact. The need to ask "how do I..." about such a basic
concept as determining whether a capacitor is good or bad is almost
always an indicator of someone who is "in way over his head". Don't
despair, though... Stupidity might be forever, but simple ignorance
such
as you're displaying can be easily cured with a dose of edgyookayshun

Set up your meter for high ohms - 20K or thereabouts should be fine.
Once you've gotten to the leads of the capacitor, use a screwdriver
with
a well-imsulated handle to short the leads of the capacitor together.
Get yourself mentally prepared for a miniature lightning bolt to go
off
when the screwdriver makes contact. Eyeball the capacitor - Does it
have
a polarity marking? (Usually a plus or a minus sign, possibly a line
of
them, situated near one of the leads) If so, observe polarity -
red/plus
to plus, black/minus to either minus or the other lead from the
capacitor - and touch the probes to the capacitor lead. If the cap
isn't
totally dead, you should see almost zero ohms at first, then rising to
a
higher value.

If you see that, leave the probes in place for a few seconds, then
remove them, switch your meter to read volts (20 will probably be
overkill, but if you've got a higher range, start there, and work down
until you get a reading) and touch the probes to the capacitor leads
again. You should see an initial high value that slowly drops to zero.

If either of these tests doesn't do what I told you would happen, then
the cap is probably toast, and you'll need a new one. If they both
work
as described, put the lid back on. It's at least acting as a capacitor
should, regardless of whether age has sent it "off value" or not, and
it
probably isn't the source of your problem.

--
Don Bruder - [email protected] - New Email policy in effect as of Feb.
21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password
in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me)
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.

Don,
I am glad you said all that because I often get bagged for saying things
like "You do not know enough to do what you want" when I am trying to
save the OP from killing himself or others.

D

Don Bruder

Jan 1, 1970
0
John G said:
Don,
I am glad you said all that because I often get bagged for saying things
like "You do not know enough to do what you want" when I am trying to
save the OP from killing himself or others.

Yeah, I've seen that syndrome many times. I consider it for exactly what
it's worth: The babblings of fools more interested in hearing the sound
of their own imaginary "authority" on a topic they themselves don't know
enough about to be saying "shit" about if they were standing there with
a mouthful of it. The "politically correct" climate today is really
conducive to "Oh, don't listen to that jerk saying you don't know
enough!"

Never mind that the querant has posed a question about a fundamental
task that even the rankest qualified beginner knows either can't be done
safely, or can't be done at all using the proposed methods.

As I made a point of distinguishing, there's two classes of people:
There's "stupid" (AKA "Just plain dumb"), and there's "ignorant" (AKA
"Unknowing"). Stupid is incurable. You don't know, you can't know, you
won't know, you make no effort to know - You're stupid, with every
negative connotation the word can be loaded down with, and you deserve
to die in agony from the results of a stupid deed. Ignorance is cured
with incredible ease. You don't know, but you acknowledge that you
don't, and seek assistance. You gain knowledge. You're no longer
ignorant. Cured! Holy of holies, I'm cured!

OP on this one struck me as ignorant, and was handled accordingly.
Sounds like he might have actually learned something, too

R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Set up your meter for high ohms - 20K or thereabouts should be fine. Once
you've gotten to the leads of the capacitor, use a screwdriver with a
well-imsulated handle to short the leads of the capacitor together. Get
yourself mentally prepared for a miniature lightning bolt to go off when
the screwdriver makes contact. Eyeball the capacitor - Does it have a
polarity marking? (Usually a plus or a minus sign, possibly a line of
them, situated near one of the leads) If so, observe polarity - red/plus
to plus, black/minus to either minus or the other lead from the capacitor
- and touch the probes to the capacitor lead. If the cap isn't totally
dead, you should see almost zero ohms at first, then rising to a higher
value.

A motor capacitor would be non-polar; they run on AC, you know. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
i took out what i think is the capacitor. it has two wires going into it
and one other place where a wire can be connected. the back of it
(opposite the wires) is open and there is a metal disk that has a screw
righ tin the middle (variable?). like i said i have no idea what im
talking about lol. im not seeing any units of capacitence or anything
really. it does say pat 2585704 & others. also says klixon and mee26rx-368
each terminal is numberd 1-3 thanks for your help! id hate to see an
expensive pump (that i got for $20 ) go to waste! A klixon is a thermal cutout switch. That's your motor overheating protection. But, according to your other post, you got it going. Congrats! For the vane, try googling for vacuum pump parts, vane pumps, that sort of thing. You might have to make one, but from the vane pumps I've seen, that wouldn't be very hard. Good Luck! Rich R Rich Grise Jan 1, 1970 0 The motor might have a bad start capacitor. However, you have not said what type of motor is on the pump. The motor could be a universal type or an inductive type. The universal type has brushes and a commutator ring. That would be the type with a capacitor for startup. Uh, actually, it's the other way around. The universal type doesn't need a capacitor - the induction type does. Cheers! Rich L Lord Garth Jan 1, 1970 0 Rich Grise said: Uh, actually, it's the other way around. The universal type doesn't need a capacitor - the induction type does. Cheers! Rich Your right...sorry !!! You know, I just had an air compressor apart about two months ago. The centrifugal switch near the commutator was bad. The other compressor I had apart more recently was the one on my Ford A/C. All together, I spent about$120 to fix my A/C. A dealer wanted over $1000 for the work. The break down was$80 for a clutchless rebuilt compressor
\$30 for 6 cans of r-134a. Tools were an A/C manifold and a vacuum pump.
Various sockets and 2 hours. It'll freeze your tits off now!

The failure analysis was the gasket that sealed the compressor failed and
the
oil (but not the freon) left the system. Because there are valves on the
compressor
is why I still had freon. The now un-lubricated compressor seized and some
aluminum particles were in the expansion valve filter. The old compressor
can be repaired and is amazingly simple.

C

[email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
i hope somebody can help me. i bought a doerr pump at a garage sale the
other day. they guy tol dme it had never been used but tis a little
old. it has a strange plug almost looks like a 240 volt. but the pump
says that its 115v. i know very little about motors! when i connect it
to my outlet with some wires.. it makes a humming noise and starts to
heat up. the motor is defineitly not spinning. im pretty sure the pump
works, im just doing something wrong. any ideas? the following is on
the pump patent:3311293 insul class a 5.4 A 60HZ 1725 rpm 1/4 hp mod no
0522v103c(?)186 single phase mtr ref 50156aa733 fr h487. thanks for

Look up nema receptacles and plugs on the net or go to an electrical
supply house and see if they have a chart showing the many many
different types of electrical cord outlets and plugs. There are special
plugs for 120 volts that will not fit a normal household 120 volt
outlet.

It could also be a locking type plug...most applications where you are
using a vacuum pump...you dont want anyone accidentally pulling the
plug on the machine because you lose vacuum.

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