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Water leakage sensor ideas

E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next
two years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in
'78, '88, and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).

It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).

I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs.
Has anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose? I have two
ideas (but they are not necessarily the best):
1) two pieces of aluminum screening separated by a piece of
thin cardboard. Connections via stainless screws & nuts.
2) Piece of PC board etched to have a bunch of parallel
traces.

The circuit is trivial and I'll use a wall wart - the question
is what's the simplest effective sensor. The tank sits on the
floor, so the sensor can't be directly underneath.

Thanks,
Ed
 
ehsjr said:
My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next
two years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in
'78, '88, and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).

It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).

I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs.
Has anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose? I have two
ideas (but they are not necessarily the best):
1) two pieces of aluminum screening separated by a piece of
thin cardboard. Connections via stainless screws & nuts.
2) Piece of PC board etched to have a bunch of parallel
traces.

The circuit is trivial and I'll use a wall wart - the question
is what's the simplest effective sensor. The tank sits on the
floor, so the sensor can't be directly underneath.

Thanks,
Ed

Try this thingy for $80. Kills the water for you.

http://www.home-technology-store.com/detail.aspx?ID=1904&iorb=4764

Or, you could replace the heater now and avoid the mess.
GG
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next
two years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in
'78, '88, and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).

It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).

I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs.
Has anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose? I have two
ideas (but they are not necessarily the best):
1) two pieces of aluminum screening separated by a piece of
thin cardboard. Connections via stainless screws & nuts.
2) Piece of PC board etched to have a bunch of parallel
traces.

The circuit is trivial and I'll use a wall wart - the question
is what's the simplest effective sensor. The tank sits on the
floor, so the sensor can't be directly underneath.

Thanks,
Ed

Classic solution: a clothespin, a couple of pennies, and an aspirin
tablet.

John
 
J

John G

Jan 1, 1970
0
ehsjr said:
My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next
two years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in
'78, '88, and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).

It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).

I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs.
Has anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose? I have two
ideas (but they are not necessarily the best):
1) two pieces of aluminum screening separated by a piece of
thin cardboard. Connections via stainless screws & nuts.
2) Piece of PC board etched to have a bunch of parallel
traces.

The circuit is trivial and I'll use a wall wart - the question
is what's the simplest effective sensor. The tank sits on the
floor, so the sensor can't be directly underneath.

Thanks,
Ed


My heater stands on concrete outside the house (temperate Australia) and
leaks are very apparent and not messy.
 
Neither copper or aluminum are good for this application. You need
gold. I was planning on trying a gold plated header strip for this. I
will place multiple sensors at strategic places in the basement and the
detection circuit will drive a relay which will disconnect the well
pump.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Classic solution: a clothespin, a couple of pennies, and an aspirin
tablet.

John

I saw a helpful hint on this - don't clamp the tablet between the
pennies - actually, you should use brass screws through the clampy
part of the clothespin, but then put the aspirin edgewise in that
little clothesline notch in the clothespin, so there's no aspirin-stuff
between the electrodes.

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

Jasen Betts

Jan 1, 1970
0
My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next
two years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in
'78, '88, and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).

Replace the electrode.
Most water heaters have a zinc or is it magnesium electrode down their
centre which stops them from rusting out, when the electrode becomes
depleted they start to rust.
It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).

I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs.
Has anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose? I have two
ideas (but they are not necessarily the best):
1) two pieces of aluminum screening separated by a piece of
thin cardboard. Connections via stainless screws & nuts.
2) Piece of PC board etched to have a bunch of parallel
traces.
The circuit is trivial and I'll use a wall wart - the question
is what's the simplest effective sensor. The tank sits on the
floor, so the sensor can't be directly underneath.

Either of those will do. but if the floor's wooden i'd go with s ring of
thumbtacks with wires soldered to alternate ones.

Or could you drain it and slide a tray under it?

Bye.
Jasen
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next
two years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in
'78, '88, and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).

It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).

I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs.
Has anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose? I have two
ideas (but they are not necessarily the best):
1) two pieces of aluminum screening separated by a piece of
thin cardboard. Connections via stainless screws & nuts.
2) Piece of PC board etched to have a bunch of parallel
traces.

The circuit is trivial and I'll use a wall wart - the question
is what's the simplest effective sensor. The tank sits on the
floor, so the sensor can't be directly underneath.

---
I'd cut up a sponge into little blocks and then thread two stainless
steel wires through them long enough to surround the base of the
heater, then bend the affair around the base of the heater and hook
the like ends together to keep them in place. Or, make a bunch of
individual sensors (one sponge block and two wires per sensor) like
that and wire them up in parallel around the base of the heater.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
---
I'd cut up a sponge into little blocks and then thread two stainless steel
wires through them long enough to surround the base of the heater, then
bend the affair around the base of the heater and hook the like ends
together to keep them in place. Or, make a bunch of individual sensors
(one sponge block and two wires per sensor) like that and wire them up in
parallel around the base of the heater.

Soak the sponge blocks in brine, and let them dry in the sun or
something. :) For that matter, you could use blotter paper and
a couple of alligator clips, but don't forget the brine! :)

Cheers!
Rich
 
D

Dan Akers

Jan 1, 1970
0
"My gas water heater (50 gallon) will spring a leak in the next two
years, if past history is a reliable indicater (Replaced in '78, '88,
and '98, neighbors also get ~ 10 years out of theirs).
It will leak slowly, at first (again, if history repeats).
I want to detect that and replace the thing at the first signs. Has
anyone brewed up a sensor for that purpose?"
_____________________________________
Re;
I just built one for my hot water heater about a year ago. My heater
sits in a small closet and I was concerned not only about "wet" leaks
but also leaks that evaporate before puddling that would go
unidentified.
So, my leak detector has two simple sensors; one to detect liquid water
in the pan the water heater sits in and one to detect high relative
humidity in the closet.
My wet leak detector simply consists of a discarded 6V wall wart cord
with one of those concentric male plugs on the end; you know center
positive, sleeve negative or vise-versa.
My high humidity detector consists of a piece of cotton string,
suspended between two stainless steel wires, that has been soaked in a
nearly saturated sodium chloride (table salt) solution and allowed to
dry. When dry the string does not conduct electricity, but when the
relative humidity reaches 75%, the NaCl deliquesces and the string
conducts. This "sensor" is simply mounted on the circuit board ( the
string is has about 2" clearance from the board surface, to get a fair
sample of the ambient air) and electrically parallels the "wet puddle"
sensor which has it's cord to allow the remote location of the wet
"sensor" in the water heater pan.
I epoxied a magnet onto the circuit board so I could stick it on the
side of the heater. It operates on a single, circuit board mounted, 9V
battery and has near zero idle current. A piezo buzzer sounds when the
wet probe gets wet or when the closet RH goes above 75%.

Dan Akers
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
Soak the sponge blocks in brine, and let them dry in the sun or
something. :) For that matter, you could use blotter paper and
a couple of alligator clips, but don't forget the brine! :)

---
Frayed knot...

NaCl is hygroscopic.

Haven't you ever seen saltshakers with rice in them?
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neither copper or aluminum are good for this application. You need
gold. I was planning on trying a gold plated header strip for this. I
will place multiple sensors at strategic places in the basement and the
detection circuit will drive a relay which will disconnect the well
pump.

I have to ask - why gold instead of copper or aluminum?

Thanks,
Ed
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks to all who have replied.

Some interesting ideas!

Here's one from E that didn't make the board. Paraphrasing:

Sink a stainless steel bolt into the concrete floor if it's
on concrete (they usually are), and use it as one half of the
sensor with the heater the other half. When the concrete gets
wet the resistance will drop.

Anyone know anything about that? If nothing else, it's an
interesting experiment I could try using a cinder block.
I wouldn't use the body of the heater - hafta scrape the paint
off to do that. I don't think the circuit connection would
cause electrolysis (guessing a few micro amps) - but bare metal
on concrete isn't something I want to do. But two bolts might
be worth considering. The advantage is that (if viable) it
detects without a puddle - the water doesn't have to reach
some minimum puddle height to touch the sensor.

Ed
 
Aluminum oxide does not conduct and copper will tarnish badly at
basement floor level. Neither will make a particularly good sensor.
Stainless steel or almost any other off the shelf plated connector
would be better e.g. nickel, tin, phosphor bronze are also common
 
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R

Ross Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jasen Betts said:
Replace the electrode.
Most water heaters have a zinc or is it magnesium electrode down their
centre which stops them from rusting out, when the electrode becomes
depleted they start to rust.



Either of those will do. but if the floor's wooden i'd go with s ring of
thumbtacks with wires soldered to alternate ones.

Or could you drain it and slide a tray under it?

Bye.
Jasen

This was my first thought....the sacrificial anode has disolved and your
water heater becomes the new anode and then leaks. Change your anode rod
every 5 years or so (just a guess based on your 10 year time period). Is
your plumbing all copper, galvanized (my guess) or plastic? The least noble
metal will plate out and that is where the leak will start. Perhaps you need
a dieltric union where your water heater connects to your plumbing....good
luck, Ross
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ross said:
This was my first thought....the sacrificial anode has disolved and your
water heater becomes the new anode and then leaks. Change your anode rod
every 5 years or so (just a guess based on your 10 year time period). Is
your plumbing all copper, galvanized (my guess) or plastic? The least noble
metal will plate out and that is where the leak will start. Perhaps you need
a dieltric union where your water heater connects to your plumbing....good
luck, Ross

Thanks. Actually I'm not trying to solve the "problem"
of the heater leaking. My assumption, right or wrong,
has been that these appliances have a life expectancy
of ~ ten years in this area. It would be interesting
to discover what the average life expectancy is, or
should be. That said, I will investigate the idea of
replacing the anode. I suspect it will turn out to be
impractical, but I don't know. The reason I say impractical
has to do with clearance above the heater. It may be
that the thing has to be "uninstalled" to get at the
anode. When this heater goes bad, I'll have full access to
the defective, uninstalled unit, and can go through
removing the old one and then replaceing it (pretending
it is new) just to see what's involved.

To answer part of your post - it's copper plumbing
throughout. And to address another issue in the thread:
there is no mess when it leaks. It sits on concrete
in a cinder block room - part of the garage - and drains
outdoors if it leaks. You don't see the leak in the
garage, so it is only by happenstance you might discover
it. The reason I want to detect it at first sign of
the leak is to (possibly) avoid unscheduled emergency
replacement or an unexpected cold shower.

I appreciate the interest and replies. While some things
may not apply to my situation - like the dielectric union
or the mess avoidance - they are certainly valid in other
circumstances, and belong in the thread.

Ed
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ross Mac wrote:

Thanks. Actually I'm not trying to solve the "problem" of the heater
leaking. My assumption, right or wrong, has been that these appliances
have a life expectancy of ~ ten years in this area. It would be
interesting to discover what the average life expectancy is, or should
be. That said, I will investigate the idea of replacing the anode. I
suspect it will turn out to be impractical, but I don't know. The
reason I say impractical has to do with clearance above the heater. It
may be that the thing has to be "uninstalled" to get at the anode. When
this heater goes bad, I'll have full access to the defective,
uninstalled unit, and can go through removing the old one and then
replaceing it (pretending it is new) just to see what's involved.

Then you should go ahead and swap out the water heater, and plan on
replacing the anode in maybe 5 years. First, see what's involved
in swapping out the anode - there's a possibility that it'd be
fairly simple to disconnect the water pipes (like, use unions)
and tilt the drained heater to slide the anode out:
http://images.google.com/images?q=water+heater+anode

Also, be sure to drain the sediment out periodically.

Have Fun!
Rich
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
Then you should go ahead and swap out the water heater,


Thanks.
You're the second person to say that, and I'm puzzled by the
idea. I'd be throwing away 20% of the thing's life, if the
ten year figure holds true. Am I missing something?

The maintenance you mention below may extend the life
considerably - I don't know - but at least I "get"
that idea.

and plan on
replacing the anode in maybe 5 years. First, see what's involved
in swapping out the anode - there's a possibility that it'd be
fairly simple to disconnect the water pipes (like, use unions)
and tilt the drained heater to slide the anode out:
http://images.google.com/images?q=water+heater+anode

Nice link!
Thanks again,
Ed
 
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