Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Weird electron behavior

R

Robert

Jan 1, 1970
0
Last year some physicists managed to split sheets of graphite
off by themselves, making a sheet of carbon atoms only one carbon atom
thick. And they were stable when created.

Now physicists are finding that electrons move through them like they
had no mass, or 1000 times faster than in normal metals.

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/11/6/1

Robert
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
Last year some physicists managed to split sheets of graphite
off by themselves, making a sheet of carbon atoms only one carbon atom
thick. And they were stable when created.

Now physicists are finding that electrons move through them like they
had no mass, or 1000 times faster than in normal metals.

Yeah, those electrons are certainly weird. But what are you gonna do?
 
Paul said:
Yeah, those electrons are certainly weird. But what are you gonna do?

Well, what I'm going to do is start by sorting out your thinking. No
electron is weird. All electrons are identical - give or take their
spin - so it isn't the electrons that are weird, but the behaviour they
are exhibiting in single-layer graphite.

Fairly obviously, they act like a two-dimensional gas in this
environment and you have to understand their behaviour in that context.
I don't know any quantum mechanics worth a damn - Kevin Alyward might
be better off - but I do know enough to know that a two-dimensional
electron gas is going to behave in thoroughly weird ways.
 
R

redbelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
Last year some physicists managed to split sheets of graphite
off by themselves, making a sheet of carbon atoms only one carbon atom
thick. And they were stable when created.

Now physicists are finding that electrons move through them like they
had no mass, or 1000 times faster than in normal metals.

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/11/6/1

Robert

The "no rest mass" description is an exageration. The electrons move
at 1/300th the speed of light, while zero-rest-mass particles would
move AT the speed of light.

Mark
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, what I'm going to do is start by sorting out your thinking. No
electron is weird. All electrons are identical - give or take their
spin - so it isn't the electrons that are weird, but the behaviour they
are exhibiting in single-layer graphite.

Fairly obviously, they act like a two-dimensional gas in this
environment and you have to understand their behaviour in that context.
I don't know any quantum mechanics worth a damn - Kevin Alyward might
be better off - but I do know enough to know that a two-dimensional
electron gas is going to behave in thoroughly weird ways.

You tell'em, Bill! We can't allow no electron disrespect around here,
no siree!

John
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, what I'm going to do is start by sorting out your thinking. No
electron is weird.

No, all electrons are weird.
 
P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
The "no rest mass" description is an exageration. The electrons move
at 1/300th the speed of light, while zero-rest-mass particles would
move AT the speed of light.

So does that imply that tachyons have < zero mass?
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
So does that imply that tachyons have < zero mass?

No, it implies that they have no fashion sense at all. Tachyons need a
*serious* makeover.

John
 
R

redbelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
So does that imply that tachyons have < zero mass?
--

Let me preface my answer by saying that I don't take discussion of
tachyons seriously. They have never been experimentally detected, nor
has anbody ever proposed a way in which they might be detectable (to my
knowledge).

The answer to your question is no. A negative (rest) mass would imply
that a particle accelerates in the opposite direction to an applied
force. (F=ma is still valid. Or, more correctly, F = dp/dt ). It's
speed would still be below c.

I'm not sure what faster-than-light speeds would require.
Mathematically, it might require that the mass is an imaginary number.
All the more reason why I don't take the whole concept seriously.

Regards,

Mark
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, it implies that they have no fashion sense at all. Tachyons need a
*serious* makeover.

No the latest studies show that they are just gluons that are not
completely dry.
 
M

martin griffith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Let me preface my answer by saying that I don't take discussion of
tachyons seriously. They have never been experimentally detected, nor
has anbody ever proposed a way in which they might be detectable (to my
knowledge).

The answer to your question is no. A negative (rest) mass would imply
that a particle accelerates in the opposite direction to an applied
force. (F=ma is still valid. Or, more correctly, F = dp/dt ). It's
speed would still be below c.

I'm not sure what faster-than-light speeds would require.
Mathematically, it might require that the mass is an imaginary number.
All the more reason why I don't take the whole concept seriously.

Regards,

Mark


"Nothing is real" ....John Lennon


martin
 
K

Kevin Aylward

Jan 1, 1970
0
redbelly said:
Let me preface my answer by saying that I don't take discussion of
tachyons seriously. They have never been experimentally detected, nor
has anbody ever proposed a way in which they might be detectable (to
my knowledge).

The answer to your question is no. A negative (rest) mass would imply
that a particle accelerates in the opposite direction to an applied
force. (F=ma is still valid. Or, more correctly, F = dp/dt ). It's
speed would still be below c.

I'm not sure what faster-than-light speeds would require.
Mathematically, it might require that the mass is an imaginary number.
All the more reason why I don't take the whole concept seriously.

The fact that tachyons are represented by *complex* numbers has zero
releveance to wheather they are a viable (existance) concept or not.

This "imaginary" number bit has an amazing amount of bad press. The name
should never have been used in the first place in mathematics. Its why I
never use the term. I use the term "complex". *All* numbers are
imaginary. We represent *all* physical entities with numbers. The fact
that this representation may be with ordered pairs, triplets, 2nd order
tensors, twisters etc, has no baring on the reality of a physical
object. The numbers are just a way of describing the object, they are
not the object itself.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
K

Kevin Aylward

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
So does that imply that tachyons have < zero mass?
--

Tachyons have complex mass, i.e. of the form, jm or im, depending on
whether you are a an engineer or a mathematician.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
K

Kevin Aylward

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, what I'm going to do is start by sorting out your thinking. No
electron is weird. All electrons are identical - give or take their
spin - so it isn't the electrons that are weird, but the behaviour
they are exhibiting in single-layer graphite.

Fairly obviously, they act like a two-dimensional gas in this
environment and you have to understand their behaviour in that
context. I don't know any quantum mechanics worth a damn - Kevin
Alyward might be better off -

Ahmm...You give me far to much credit on physics!


Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin Aylward said:
Tachyons have complex mass, i.e. of the form, jm or im, depending on
whether you are a an engineer or a mathematician.

May I infer from that that jim is a mathematician-engineer hybrid and has a
negative mass? :)
 
Fred said:
May I infer from that that jim is a mathematician-engineer hybrid and hasa
negative mass? :)

Intellectually speaking, yes.His opinions outside of engineering do
seem to be at ninety degrees to the real axis.

His physical mass does seem to be depressingly real, finite and
positive.
 
K

Kevin Aylward

Jan 1, 1970
0
Intellectually speaking, yes.His opinions outside of engineering do
seem to be at ninety degrees to the real axis.

His physical mass does seem to be depressingly real, finite and
positive.

Nice ones. Truly excellent wit.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Last year some physicists managed to split sheets of graphite
off by themselves, making a sheet of carbon atoms only one carbon atom
thick. And they were stable when created.

Now physicists are finding that electrons move through them like they
had no mass, or 1000 times faster than in normal metals.

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/11/6/1
Well, ya big silly! They're confusing relativistic electrons with
massless Dirac fermions.

Any schoolchild should be able to grok the difference.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
R

Rich, Under the Affluence

Jan 1, 1970
0
So does that imply that tachyons have < zero mass?

Yeah, I thought that had been well-known since they were discovered.
How else could they move backwards in time, unless they had negative
mass?

Thanks,
Rich
 
Top