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What does it meant to be locked out?

J

Jason

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am getting ready to install a wireless system in my house. I talked
to the local monitoring company that I am considering using and they
recommend that I go with Ademco. At this point I am planning on
installing a basic perimeter system but I would like to add sensors
regularly in the future. The monitoring company told me that they
will have to lock me out once they program my system. Will this
prevent me from adding sensors in the future? Will this limit what I
can do with X10? What else will this not allow me to do? Is this
common to lock a customer out?

Thanks,

Jason
 
P

petem

Jan 1, 1970
0
ask them if they would unlock the panel for you free of charge when it will
come time for you to had parts to your system..

and make sure its on paper if they do say yes...
 
C

C G

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jason said:
I am getting ready to install a wireless system in my house.

Install as in DIY, or install as in hire someone to install it?
I talked
to the local monitoring company that I am considering using and they
recommend that I go with Ademco. At this point I am planning on
installing a basic perimeter system but I would like to add sensors
regularly in the future.

Same question as above. If you did the initial install, you should be
able to add. If you did not do the install then you need to find out
what they will charge for additions.
The monitoring company told me that they
will have to lock me out once they program my system. Will this
prevent me from adding sensors in the future? Will this limit what I
can do with X10? What else will this not allow me to do? Is this
common to lock a customer out?

Call a few more and see what's normal in your area. Mine is not locked
out. I am free to do whatever I want to the programming. The only rule
is that if I am adding anything I should fax the new info to the alarm
company so the monitoring company can update their records in case an
alarm is triggered. In practice, if I change any of the programming
related to the alarm functions, as opposed to automation functions, I
send a copy ahead of time to the alarm company for him to verify. This
way errors will be caught before they generate a false alarm.
 
T

The Big Stink

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you use an Ademco panel, don't worry. Power down, power up and push the *
and # buttons at the same time (within 30 seconds). This will put you in
programming mode. No need to know the installer code. Some Ademco panels are
capable of having "keypad programming" disabled. The only way to program the
panel is by remote computer.
 
R

Robert Skinner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Check your terminology. When they say "lock out" that could mean that they
change the installers code from factory default to their own code. This is
a normal and professional practice. When you contract an alarm monitoring
station to monitor your alarm, you share the same receiver with many other
alarm systems. To prevent well intentioned system owners from going in and
messing around with the system and possibly creating an error that could jam
the monitoring stations receivers, you prevent that by restricting access to
installer level programming.

There is also the point that once the system is installed and fully tested,
you must go through a complete system test with the assistance of the
monitoring station again anytime installer level programming is entered to
ensure that when and if your alarm needs to send a critical signal, it can
and will. (Some stations charge for this now I am told, not mine so far)

You could be the most highly skilled and technically sound person in the
universe but any company that allows you to go in and change programming at
your whim while others depend on the same receiver you do is putting your
families welfare and all their others customers welfare at a totally
unacceptable level of risk.

I would avoid any monitoring station that allows you to have the installers
code while a mutually agreed contract is in force.

The panel 'lock out" is an entirely different animal. If you own the system
outright, and don't have any outstanding bills, the company should not lock
you out of your system to prevent you from changing vendors. When and if
you change vendors, a professional company should reset all installer level
access codes to factory default and remove their receiver numbers and codes
from your system. (some companies do charge for this, others don't, ask)
Check with the company you choose to see exactly what will happen should you
not be satisfied with the service that you are expecting.

Also look at fees. Ask for and verify that the monitoring station that you
choose can provide an up to date UL/ULC number. Do they provide 24 hour
customer service and technical support? Can they provide emergency repair
24 hours a day? Are their staff properly trained and licensed? Has a full
background check been completed on their staff. The last thing you want to
find out is that someone you are dealing with either at the station level,
sales or service level has a criminal record for something that bears
directly on their behaviour that is job related. If they meet the above
criteria, be prepared to pay a premium price. There are plenty of discount
stations around that only provide some or none of the above services. You
get what you pay for most of the time.

Good luck!
 
R

Robert Skinner

Jan 1, 1970
0
You did not read my post clearly Bass man, I said quite clearly PROFESSIONAL
companies. You can tout all you want about how you can do this or you can
do that but at the end of the day anyone would be assine to have their
system monitored by a company that lets anyone modify their programming
without supervision when attached to a common receiver line.

By the way, do you disclose that you are not licensed, bonded or insured and
that you have a felony conviction when you start suggesting what customer
should do to protect their families?
 
J

Jason

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks guys. I now have a list of questions to ask the monitoring company.
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
absolute unethical practice.

It is until one of the variables or unthinkables comes to life. Your Company
is sued, and you loose all your customers from not implementing the
safeguards that protect you from mistakes. Human Mistakes. Would I as a
consumer want to take the responsibility for a loss of life, worst yet, a
family member? There are no "Teams". There are however alot of assholes in
this industry that more so put the rest of us "professionals" at risk.
That's one of the variables.

Jack
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't think anyone who has an ounce of
ethical would support using a lockout code to just to hold a consumer hostage
to their service.

I don't think so either. But what TV show did the term hostage of a consumer
come from? Most panels on the market can easily and economically be
replaced. I've never read where the Smith's were so distraught from being
held hostage from their Alarm Company they ended it all...Your simply not
living in the real world. If a customer owes a company money for their
services, or is in breach of a written agreement...the Alarm Company is
deviant? It's called business. Do you know what the percentage is of alarm
companies that actually take a customer to court for these breaches? S M A L
L! Your simply honing in on the smallest group of alarm idiot's and calling
them the guideline. Blah!

Jack
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mark Leuck said:
So now you say you don't have a felony conviction?


It's called the "Bass-Hole-Nova". You take one step forward, two steps
sideways, then four steps back, and twirl...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
AlarmReview said:
No, Maybe I wasn't clear. There is nothing unethical in using lock-out codes
when it serves a legitimate function OTHER THAN to simple make it difficult for
a consumer to switch companies if that customer has no obligation to the
company that locked out the panel.

I have never heard a legitimate, logical argument for locking out a customer
from programing when there's no rational for locking the panel except to try
and keep them as a continuing paying customer or to make their life miserable
if they choose another company. This is generally coupled with a company's
refusal or stonewalling on unlocking the panel after all legitimate issues are

I think you're confusing my statements with someone else's.


Hey Rob... This subject looks a lot like the group's "light bulb", don'tcha
think?? ;-)
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
AlarmReview said:
Ahhh, I'm not following :-?

Check out the post with the subject line:

"How many forum members does it take to change a light bulb?"

:))
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
AlarmReview said:
OK., get it.

Naw, I don't think it's a good example, since the thread is still basically
ontrack about lock-out codes. Interesting philosophies are coming out. Also,
nobody equated lockout codes to airplanes, Canadian Beer, WMD, RFI, or
mentioned the "Testimony" yet, so it doesn't qualify for the "light-bulb"
analogy. Damn, I just did!!! It's now officially the ASA light bulb :)

Since you are following this, what's your opinion on lockout codes? Am I far
off base?

Rob-

I don't see a lot of "locked" boards since we don't do a whole lot of
take-overs (not our market). That having been said, when people find out
about our low rates and excellent service it doesn't take much to convince
them to switch. Our account base has been growing fairly steadily for a
number of years and our attrition rate is practically zero. I don't believe
in long term contracts and have views similar to RHC when it comes to
cancellations and "letting the customer go".

My opinion of locking boards hasn't changed, however. It does have it's
place when the customer elects to lease or "rent" the system. If the
customer cancels monitoring for whatever reason (on equipment he's
purchased), the installer code's defaulted and the system's wiped of any
phone numbers and proprietory monitoring account information.

You're not "far off base", Rob. Your opinions are your own (and I respect
them). Robbert's are his own. Who's to say who's right or wrong? My
insurer's "E&O's" policy dictates what we have to do (in a manner of
speaking) concerning this issue. I'm not saying they actually tell us to
use lock out codes (in those exact words), but I do know we have to take
whatever steps necessary to "cover our ass". They'd have "kittens" if we
gave our customers the installer access code on a monitored system as would
our CS or if left them at the factory defaults on a local system (in the
latter case, the customer tells us what code to use). Since Robbert doesn't
have insurance, he's free to do as he pleases. Individuals who wish to
"deal" with him are also free to do so. I anticipate anyone contemplating
the purchase of security products (including monitoring) online would have
the intelligence to investigate all the options and not settle on the
company with the lowest price or the jerk with the loudest voice.
 
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