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Which PIC to pick? Could use a few pointers.

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
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Well, using a higher voltage supply will allow you to create strings, or longer strings of LEDs that can all be controlled with a single pin on a ws2801 or microcontroller. If you plan to setup your project so that each LED is controlled individually, I do not see any reason why you would need anymore than 5V.
Creating small strings of LEDs would be advantageous in that you could control groups at a time, and would require less memory to map. This of course would reduce the resolution and may not allow you to get that 'smooth' transition or ripple to travel around the blade. This is your call ;)

As far as the LED being used on a 90 degree angle; I have only ever seen 3mm LEDs in a little plastic holder that hold them at 90 degrees. Others may have a solution for you, but my first thought is using a 45 degree angle on the inside edge of the outer-ring light-pipe to hopefully reflect the light outward. (I have very little experience with light-pipes though.)

Remember too that bumping up the voltage will limit the amount of current you can draw which is going to be important for many LEDs. Especially if they need to be individually controlled they will need to be powered in parallel.
 

Canobi

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I must of misunderstood something as I thought that in order to control multiple leds in series, it would require the high voltage bucks (ie. 20-25mA @ 25v+).

The blade leds need as much control as poss for detailed animations. C ring is the basic one.

If each section was devided by 22.5° rather than 45°, there should be enough room for everything per board for the reduced LED count (approx 15-17 for the C ring per section and 30-32 for the blade).

I will need to double check this, but roughly the outer ring pcb diameter should be 9.5" and the inside is 4.75".

Ideally they should be pretty much independent but take their instructions from the main board.
 

Gryd3

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I must of misunderstood something as I thought that in order to control multiple leds in series, it would require the high voltage bucks (ie. 20-25mA @ 25v+).
Normally yes, but neopixels are a unique creature.
The signal line is connecting them all in series, but power will be provided to each neopixel in parallel.

The WS2801 has the capability of controlling more than one LED for each one of it's outputs as shown in it's datasheet, but this has the unfortunate downfall of stripping your ability of using multi-color LEDs. The WS2801 would then need to control a string of red, a string of green, and a string of blue. For this you would require a higher voltage based on how many LEDs in the string.

Using pre-made neopixels, or using RGB multi-color LEDs with a WS2801 will require that you provide one WS2801 for each RGB LED, and that you connect the power in parallel to each LED and WS2801.

Sorry if there was any confusion from above.

I should also clarify in that you can certainly use a 25V+ boost to control a larger string of LEDs, but every LED in the string would be treated as one LED. (All would do the same, it's only if you want individual control that you need them in parallel)
 

Canobi

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Normally yes, but neopixels are a unique creature.
The signal line is connecting them all in series, but power will be provided to each neopixel in parallel.

The WS2801 has the capability of controlling more than one LED for each one of it's outputs as shown in it's datasheet, but this has the unfortunate downfall of stripping your ability of using multi-color LEDs. The WS2801 would then need to control a string of red, a string of green, and a string of blue. For this you would require a higher voltage based on how many LEDs in the string.

Using pre-made neopixels, or using RGB multi-color LEDs with a WS2801 will require that you provide one WS2801 for each RGB LED, and that you connect the power in parallel to each LED and WS2801.

Sorry if there was any confusion from above.

I should also clarify in that you can certainly use a 25V+ boost to control a larger string of LEDs, but every LED in the string would be treated as one LED. (All would do the same, it's only if you want individual control that you need them in parallel)


Ahh, gotcha. I was thinking it was series that gave the individual control.

I think I'll leave out the multi colour option for the c ring as it makes it simpler using single colour LEDs.

<edit>

In that case, I'm thinking RCR123As as they're just small enough to fit inside and pack around 2.3A each. Should be plenty to run em all.
 
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Gryd3

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I just want to recap everything electronically that I an understanding so far with your project to make sure we are on the same page.

Outer-ring
White Only. Was under the impression the entire outer ring would light and fade at the exact same rate. This would work with powering the LEDs in series. However, I am understanding now that the outer-ring will be animated to provide a ripple effect. This will require power to be provided in parallel to the LEDs in use that you want individual control over. A single WS2801 can be used to control 3 individual white LEDs.

Inner-Ring
Multi-Color. Planning on using 3 LEDs per segment. Would require 3 neopixels, or a single WS2801 and 3 of each color LED (RGB). The later method would not be ideal as the light may not blend together as much as desired, but would allow strings of LEDs to be wired in series to be controlled by a WS2801.
If you go to the white only route, you can connect 3 white LEDs in series, and control 3 of those strings with a single WS2801.
If you do not need the LEDs in the inner-ring to fade, or mix colors, you can use an IO expander to control these LEDs as well.

Hopefully I got everything?
 

Canobi

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Outer ring:

Yes, ripple and animation detail is what I'm aiming for with the blade, hence mentioning the CR123As now I know the LEDs should be in parallel. Sorry if I confused things.

Its going to roughly work out about 10 or more WS2801's per board though.


Inner ring:

Not quite. I was thinking of multi colour option, but now going for static/single colour for simplicity (if I want a red C ring, I'll use red LEDs).
 

Canobi

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Just want to take the time to thank you heartily. Your help has been nothing short of awesome, cheers bud ;)
 

Canobi

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After listing the parts of the circuit in order (from power in to LEDs), I'm wondering if it might not be a bad idea to include sensor switch ports to the slave boards that trace back to the main MCU.

Also wondering if its possible to design just one PCB rather than a possible three, depending what was put on them they could be tailored to fit whichever purpose. Plus, since I've only etched one sided PCBs so far, I keep forgetting about all the space on the other side that could potentially be used, so might be doable.

So far it looks something like this:

Power in (not sure how to do this yet, but looking at induction charging coil kits)
Power in "through port" (to next board)
Voltage regulator
Charger IC
Battery

[Input sensors/tactile feedback]
Hall effect sensor (on/off)
Accelerometer
Reed switch (interrupt to activate C ring disc sync animation)
Momentary button (blade on/off)
Mini pcb mount vibration motor


Main MCU (32bit)
or
Sub MCU (8bit)

ChipCorder/2w digital mono amp/induction speaker and* matrix IC
C ring LEDs (group addressed) and*
Matrix IC
Blade LEDs (single addressed)

Quite a lot going on there, now I need to pin down componants to change generic terms for actual part names so I can work out what will actually fit the available board space.
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
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You are welcome.
You can put this together on as many or as little boards as you wish. Using segments may allow for less waste in manufacturing.

Once you have narrowed down the remaining components, we may both get a better understanding of what kind of design will be required.
 

Canobi

Jul 25, 2014
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OK, well that was a fair bit of work for a while dredging through all the datasheets, and finding the discontinued soundchips (whew!), but I think I finally have my shortlist.

Power in/through

Voltage regulator = AMS1117

Charger IC = MCP73833

Battery = RCR123A 3.7V 2300mAh (GTL)

Main MCU ×1 = ATmega32U4

Sub MCU x7 = ATMEGA48A-AU

ChipCorder = ISD2360SY-ND (DigiKey)

matrix chip = TPS63020

C ring LEDs (group addressed)

Matrix chip (s) TPS63020

Blade LEDs (right angle mount/single addressed) = LTW-008ZDCG (DigiKey)

I'm well chuffed, I found the right angle surface mount LEDs I was on about, but they're smaller than I remembered.

IMG_20140815_190011.jpg

I've attached some of the datasheets to save looking around, but couldn't attach all of them due to their size.
 

Attachments

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  • ATmega48A48PA88A88PA168A168PA328328P.pdf
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  • S_110_LTW-008ZDCG.pdf
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Canobi

Jul 25, 2014
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Hi Gryd3

Found these side LEDs too. KPA-2106PWF-A
and
KPA-3010PWF-G

M517578P01WL.jpg

Working out how many blade LEDs there would be, I discovered that at 3mm wide, some would overlap the sections which won't work for a modular system (pretty much the same with 2mm as well).

My thinking is to mix 2mm and 3mm wide LEDs alternating between sizes as it may solve the problem. Will need to play with the numbers a bit more.


Oh yeh, I can provide the necessary rhino files for getting exact dims if needed, just let me know ;)
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
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I've never gotten to play with 90 degree LEDs like those. Good find.
I must admit I've been eye balling those screenshots wishing the 3dm was available ;)

As far as the qty of LEDs around the outer ring is concerned, you can reduce the quantity if the ripple effect will be quick and it will still look fluid.
If the ripple affect will slowly move around the disk you will need more
(Think about video, when you slow it down too much you begin to see the steps between frames. Same kind of thing here)
 

Canobi

Jul 25, 2014
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Found them on Rapid online under right angle LEDs, but I think I saw them on RS under a different catagory. I'm guessing they can be mounted virtically as well.

Drop me a PM with your email and I'll pass on the necessary files.

Could use your talents in that area for the last disc. I have special permission to allow others to modify the files as long as its only for this project ;)

Yeh the ripple effect is quite fast, and has a kind of distinctive pattern which I think I've worked out.

After careful study, it looks like every 5-8mm or so, there is a spot that is dimmer. If you count the small spots as the dim sections it looks a bit like this: •●●•●●•●●•

From the looks of it, this pattern is static (the darker spots don't move position relative to the other darker spots), the pattern is then rotated quite fast and then the flicker is added.

<edit> If the static pattern was rotated fast enough, the POV effect might do most of the work.
 
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Gryd3

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Do you happen to have a reference somewhere of the ripple effect?
 

Canobi

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Do you happen to have a reference somewhere of the ripple effect?

Once apon a time, but it's a long story.

I know others have modded the official crap replica of this particular disc in the past using arduinos as I came across them while originally researching the disc electronics.

The best effort I've seen so far (apart from mine), is this guys work

http://www.therpf.com/f9/tron-legacy-identity-disc-custom-lights-sounds-205164/

I'm also found over there under the same username, been a member for a few years now. I was running a thread called Tron Disgography, but it got deleted (part of said long story), and all the amazing input from the discs original creator and info went with it :(

Part of the reason for rolling up my sleves and learning as much as I can to do it properly.

If for some reason your unable to view the thread, I can request a copy of the code he's written to tinker with.
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
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Once apon a time, but it's a long story.

I know others have modded the official crap replica of this particular disc in the past using arduinos as I came across them while originally researching the disc electronics.

The best effort I've seen so far (apart from mine), is this guys work

http://www.therpf.com/f9/tron-legacy-identity-disc-custom-lights-sounds-205164/

I'm also found over there under the same username, been a member for a few years now. I was running a thread called Tron Disgography, but it got deleted (part of said long story), and all the amazing input from the discs original creator and info went with it :(

Part of the reason for rolling up my sleves and learning as much as I can to do it properly.

If for some reason your unable to view the thread, I can request a copy of the code he's written to tinker with.
I seem to be able to view it just fine. He is using a bunch of neopixels it seems. I'll dig in later tonight.
 

Canobi

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Cool, sometimes need to be a member to view threads, wasn't sure if that was one of those or not.

Forgot he was using neos, there are others using standared leds, I'll dig around and see if I can find them, they also have source codes to play with IIRC.
 
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