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Who you should buy security from

T

Tyler Halbrooks

Jan 1, 1970
0
Confused about which panel to buy and who to deal with ?

There can be a great deal of information to deal with after getting several
quotes from suppliers! Remember, in Ontario, unlike every other province in
Canada, or state in the USA, this is a totally unregulated market !! There
are no regulations governing who can operate a security business, so just
about anything goes !! It is very much a "buyer beware" market....

Following are some guidelines to help you wade through the mess of
conflicting facts and pricing schemes:

1- Before you even start your shopping, you should have make a basic
decision as to HOW you wish to purchase; then investigate within the ranks
of those companies who's business model mirrors that pricing structure. For
example, the two extremes in the marketplace are:

Nothing down up front ("free system") **, megabucks a month in excess of
$30 per month under a long term non-cancelable contract for from 2 to 5
years, usually minimal equipment coverage without extra upfront costs, extra
cost warranty and service in many cases. Note that in most cases, after the
initial term of the contract has expired, the high monthly price remains. At
that point, you may wish to shop for a small or medium dealer who will
"takeover" your future monitoring, service and warranty requirements at
significantly lower cost to you.
Full but fair price up front for a complete system, monthly contract only
at minimal price, including free service, 100% warranty, monthly term only,
and a 5 year rate guarantee. This can be the least expensive way to buy over
the long term. However, it is not reasonable to expect major up front cost
breaks on the equipment when buying this way. Anyone doing so is probably
just entering the market, and is "buying" your account at a loss, hoping for
your ongoing monitoring business over the longer term.

Most alarm companies market within the middle ground, including a contract
term of some length for monitoring services, and with or without no cost
after sales service and warranty. Here you must shop around, since prices
vary all over the map !!

** "Zero down" systems are a perfectly legitimate way to buy any product.
However, alarm companies that advertise "free systems" are being deceptive;
this is basically a dishonest way to market, and should always put any
potential buyer on high alert.....

Caution: Do not believe the line handed out by large companies (mass
marketers and others) that no one except small unstable dealers will market
services without a long term contract. This is simply their way of
justifying maintaining a decidedly "consumer unfriendly" status quo !!

Remember the one rule of thumb in this and any other business...." You only
get what you pay for" !!

2- Do not buy on price alone. The lowest price is not always the truly
lowest price over the long term. You must compare costs over a five year
period based on initial cost, cost of monitoring, cost of service calls, and
cost of warranty. If you do decide on the "zero down" option, know
beforehand exactly what you are locking into by way of total cost, service,
and contract length (you should always ask about your options for early
termination of the contract - this can be quite an eye opener !!) While
price is always a major consideration, too much preoccupation with price
alone can blind you to other equally important concerns. Again, I emphasize,
understand fully what you are locking in to, and what your commitments are
!!!!!

3- Do not allow yourself to be locked into a monitoring contract in excess
of one year if purchasing your system outright. Remember, a contract does
not in any way serve your interests, and is there solely to protect the
dealer's revenue stream. The argument that it guarantees you long term price
stability is just not so with most alarm company contracts. A contract
length of one year is more than sufficient to ensure longevity of service
from a dealer perspective. You WILL have to shop around though to find a
more progressive company that does not lock you in to a term contract of
some length.

4- Shop for your dealer with the same care you shop for your system. Look
very closely at the person or firm you are dealing with. Will they be here
tomorrow when you need service (this is especially important here in the
Ottawa area, where people enter and leave this business on a monthly basis).
These amateur "trunk slammers" are responsible for a lot of poorly installed
systems purchased by people too quick to purchase on price only. My partner
and I often comment on how we rarely see the same faces at distributor
sponsored events from month to month). The smaller the dealer, the more you
should examine his qualifications to do the job, ie: number of accounts,
years in business, backup service capabilities etc. Remember, there is
currently no licensing requirements or background check required to set up a
security business in Ontario.

On the other hand, dealing with a large corporation guarantees you very
little as a consumer, other than most certainly costing you more, with
generally a far less personal level of service, and having to sign a binding
contract which can and often does get sold as these larger corporations
swallow each other up (ADT recently purchased the assets of Honeywell, and
now SecurityLink....)

5- Be just as careful dealing with large companies as you would in dealing
with smaller companies - maybe more so !! Often, being a large corporation,
they can not or will not be as flexible on price or unique requirements that
you may need or ask for. This seems to come about due to a certain level of
"institutionalized bureaucratic stupidity" ingrained in most large
corporations today!! Often too, that dealer who represents himself as the
large national is in fact an independant dealer linked to the national
through an un-monitored "authorized dealer program", and who sells that
account to the large national, largely bowing out of any further involvement
in after sales service (ADT and Voxcom are two mass marketers who operate
dealer programs)

While I admit my bias in this respect, I happen to personally believe that
the best providers of residential security are usually small to medium sized
companies. Large companies excel in large industrial security applications.

If purchasing one of these so called "free" systems, you will be
contractually bound for from $30 per month to as high as $50 per month for a
period of time. If at the end of the contract period, you do not request
your fee to go down to pay just for the monitoring (now that you have
finished financing the system), they will leave your monthly payments at the
higher level. The ethics of this situation I will not bother to comment on
!!.... At this point, shop around for monitoring from another source and do
not pay more than $20 monthly (monthly term contract).

6- Don't pay much attention to companies telling you how their panel is
better than everyone else's. In this industry, every installer / company has
a panel which they prefer and in their mind, everyone else's choices are
poorer. At security get togethers, this is always a point of lively
discussion!! As long as you are buying professional equipment, and it serves
your current and projected needs, all will serve your basic security
requirements (DSC, Paradox, Ademco, Napco, Caddyx, ITI, FBI, Linear,
Europlex, to name a few common makes - Radio Shack and Home Depot systems do
NOT qualify as professional grade equipment!)

7- Choose a hardwired alarm system over a wireless system. Although wireless
systems have come a long way over the last few years, they remain generally
more prone to problems and false than a hardwired system of equal quality.
They are also considerably more expensive. Some difficult locations may
truly require wireless components, but the usual reason a company recommends
wireless is because of the decrease in labour costs involved in not having
to run wiring. This allows them to put in two systems a day rather than one,
thereby generating more monthly recurring monitoring revenue. As well, it
doesn't require qualified installers to complete. Mass market companies
heavily into the "free system" sales concept often specialize in wireless
equipment.

8- Follow your gut instincts about the person or company you are dealing
with. Do they seem honest in their sales approach to you, or do they exert
high pressure to close the sale. Be especially careful dealing with a pure
salesman who is not himself going to be involved with the actual
installation- they can be tempted to say things to win your business which
may not be accurate or possible to do. Many "security consultants"
(translation - sales staff) are short term in this business (especially with
the mass marketing companies out to sell long term contracts), and may not
be fully knowledgeable about security specifics and alarm system design.
(Doing sub-contract work for large firms, we experience by far the greatest
problems when going in behind a salesperson who has promised impossible
things in order to close the sale, and we then must break the unhappy news
as to what realistically can and should be done).

9- Ask your friends for their experiences with their alarm companies. Did
they come when service was required ? Did the service cost money, and if so,
was the price reasonable? Did the company clean up after themselves? Smart
alarm companies know that word of mouth is the very best advertising for
security services. However, use that as a starting point only, but make your
own decision. Most people (provided they haven't experienced problems) will
wax eloquently about their choice of firms. To do otherwise is against human
nature!

10- Ask about the company's "false alarm policies". Reputable companies who
care about their reputation will gladly pick up false alarm fees assessed
due to failure of the actual equipment.

11- Discuss up front any special requirements you need to ensure your new
panel has that capability. While you may initially purchase for reasons of
theft prevention, you may later decide to add to the system to cover fire,
heat, cold, gas detection etc. Avoid installing a panel which is at capacity
from day one. Leave yourself room (at least one zone) to add on additional
requirements which you may need in the future.

12- Insist that your company check all internal software settings via
upload/download software after installation. Surprisingly, most companies do
not check their panels via upload/download software !!!.....(Even being as
careful as I am, I still make "finger trouble" programming mistakes in one
out of five installations, which need corrective action via uploading). Also
look for a company which programs in "cancel codes" and "recent close codes"
for your protection against false dispatches which can cost you money.

13- When you make your final decision, don't put any money down up front.
That should never be required since the equipment costs are not in the same
league as a furnace or air conditioner !! Smaller firms that do this are
generally running their business on a shoestring budget, and this can be an
indication of the level of service you can expect later on.

14- Discuss the design of your system with several companies and look for a
design which covers all traffic areas inside the home. For example, one
medium sized company in this area typically installs no motion detectors,
relying solely on glass break detectors to provide inside protection. This
is clearly defective design in that should the burglar pry open a window
rather than break it - far more likely with heavy modern double pane
windows - there is absolutely no protection whatsoever.

15- Insist on a guarantee that the equipment you are purchasing is not
"proprietary" and can be monitored by any other company. Many larger
companies especially are guilty of installing this type of equipment to
prevent you from leaving them in the future. Insist that after the term of
any contract, should you wish to go elsewhere for your monitoring, that:

1- Your alarm panel can be serviced by any other monitoring station, and

2- At no cost to you, the company will reset your installers code back to
factory default, and unlock the board so it can be reprogrammed (this is
vital - and get it in writing as part of any contract)

16- NEVER sign any contract on the spot. Sit down and compare the three
price quotes you obtained, and make your decision in the "calm light of
day". You will likely be with this company for some time, so make the
correct decision up front.

And finally, one last word of caution - any salesman that insists that:

a- The deal is "only good for so long", and that you "must make a decision
now"

........or........

b - You should sign up for his deal immediately because "there have been a
lot of robberies on your street", etc should be shown the door in short
order !!

Most importantly, remember that your alarm system can not be effective
unless you have done the physical security updates needed first to keep
thieves out to begin with - good locks, good strikes, patio door security,
and window bars for all your basement windows (sorry... I feel I have to add
this again because it IS every bit as important as your alarm system
 
A

anomynous

Jan 1, 1970
0
or just flash the salesperson and you might get a free lawn sign ;)
 
R

RH.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sir, while I don't mind your posting word for word one of the pages of my
website on the newsgroup, I certainly think it would be proper etiquette of
you to give a reference to its source !

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
 
T

Tyler Halbrooks

Jan 1, 1970
0
No I didn't give reference to where I got this info nor did I take credit
for it. I find interesting material such as this and I find it to be correct
and beneficial to anyone that comes in contact with it. I do however find
that on this web site to be one of the most truthful and beneficial models
of how we as an industry should conduct our selves. I proudly recommend that
all that are curious take a look. Mr. Cambell my hat is off to you. Thank
you for your contribution in the industry. I meant no disrespect
 
R

RH.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sheesh !......I guess I'm doomed to carry that baggage around forever on
this newsgroup....

RHC
 
R

RH.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
None taken sir !! Nor did I mean to make much of it. And thank you for your
kind words...

RHC


Thank you for your contribution in the industry. I meant no disrespect
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm assuming you've "Mastered" the Residential Security Market. Good for
you. Some of your points are valid, some are not. But since you decided to
make a blanket statement covering what you perceive as legitimate, you
prejudge consumers to be idiots. Too much information can be just as
damaging as not enough.

Tyler Halbrooks said:
Confused about which panel to buy and who to deal with ?

There can be a great deal of information to deal with after getting several
quotes from suppliers! Remember, in Ontario, unlike every other province in
Canada, or state in the USA, this is a totally unregulated market !! There
are no regulations governing who can operate a security business, so just
about anything goes !! It is very much a "buyer beware" market....

Anything you buy is a "buyers beware" market, if your personally paying for
it.
Following are some guidelines to help you wade through the mess of
conflicting facts and pricing schemes:

1- Before you even start your shopping, you should have make a basic
decision as to HOW you wish to purchase; then investigate within the ranks
of those companies who's business model mirrors that pricing structure. For
example, the two extremes in the marketplace are:

Nothing down up front ("free system") **, megabucks a month in excess of
$30 per month under a long term non-cancelable contract for from 2 to 5
years, usually minimal equipment coverage without extra upfront costs, extra
cost warranty and service in many cases. Note that in most cases, after the
initial term of the contract has expired, the high monthly price remains. At
that point, you may wish to shop for a small or medium dealer who will
"takeover" your future monitoring, service and warranty requirements at
significantly lower cost to you.

There is no such thing as a free system. National Averages here in the US
place Residential Systems at an $800.00 per system average install. Nation
wide averages of all security systems at $ 1,600.00.
Low Ball pricing makes the package worth investigating. And a Sales
appointment of "opportunity" available. You assume consumers are cheap. This
tactic confirms that a vast majority of "Residential" consumers are looking
for the best deal.
Full but fair price up front for a complete system, monthly contract only
at minimal price, including free service, 100% warranty, monthly term only,
and a 5 year rate guarantee. This can be the least expensive way to buy over
the long term. However, it is not reasonable to expect major up front cost
breaks on the equipment when buying this way. Anyone doing so is probably
just entering the market, and is "buying" your account at a loss, hoping for
your ongoing monitoring business over the longer term.

Most security companies, much like most businesses "Must" earn money to be
around in the long term. The term "free service", 100% Warranty, monthly
term only, 5 year rate guarantee, is much like a "Political" campainge,
people will believe you before the system goes in, but as your expenses to
run your business grows, you've just created limitations that will
ultimately prevent it. Large companies can afford to sustain losses in
attrition, or during the infancy of a contract, but if your smaller, that
kind of thinking will ultimately put you out of business.
Most alarm companies market within the middle ground, including a contract
term of some length for monitoring services, and with or without no cost
after sales service and warranty. Here you must shop around, since prices
vary all over the map !!

Which you probably can't offer, because you traveled across any map. Most
companies will have a Warranty on the system. Is it free for the life of the
system? No, reality check, again most businesses are in business to make
money, and provide a good value of service.
** "Zero down" systems are a perfectly legitimate way to buy any product.
However, alarm companies that advertise "free systems" are being deceptive;
this is basically a dishonest way to market, and should always put any
potential buyer on high alert.....

Agreed. Unfortunately most people deal with other people on the lines of
faith, that the person will be honest. People get take advantage of through
their own nieve patterns. It doeesn't make it right, but large companies use
"name recognition" to justify it.

Caution: Do not believe the line handed out by large companies (mass
marketers and others) that no one except small unstable dealers will market
services without a long term contract. This is simply their way of
justifying maintaining a decidedly "consumer unfriendly" status quo !!

If there was a "French" translation, I missed it.
Remember the one rule of thumb in this and any other business...." You only
get what you pay for" !!
2- Do not buy on price alone. The lowest price is not always the truly
lowest price over the long term. You must compare costs over a five year
period based on initial cost, cost of monitoring, cost of service calls, and
cost of warranty. If you do decide on the "zero down" option, know
beforehand exactly what you are locking into by way of total cost, service,
and contract length (you should always ask about your options for early
termination of the contract - this can be quite an eye opener !!) While
price is always a major consideration, too much preoccupation with price
alone can blind you to other equally important concerns. Again, I emphasize,
understand fully what you are locking in to, and what your commitments are
!!!!!

Five years? Most electronic systems typically will last 15 to 20 years.
Unless your security system is being mounted on a shelf, think longer term.
3- Do not allow yourself to be locked into a monitoring contract in excess
of one year if purchasing your system outright. Remember, a contract does
not in any way serve your interests, and is there solely to protect the
dealer's revenue stream. The argument that it guarantees you long term price
stability is just not so with most alarm company contracts. A contract
length of one year is more than sufficient to ensure longevity of service
from a dealer perspective. You WILL have to shop around though to find a
more progressive company that does not lock you in to a term contract of
some length.

While I understand your personal views, contractual agreements protect both
parties in writing. If you have ever, as an alarm professional, sat down
with an attourney while composing one, you might acually know this. Alarm
companies are not insurance agents, no does, or should any company (other
than an insurance company) offer it. This is the part that confuses most
consumers. It's not insurance...it's assurance. Having no contract can be
far detrimental in the even of failures.
4- Shop for your dealer with the same care you shop for your system. Look
very closely at the person or firm you are dealing with. Will they be here
tomorrow when you need service (this is especially important here in the
Ottawa area, where people enter and leave this business on a monthly basis).
These amateur "trunk slammers" are responsible for a lot of poorly installed
systems purchased by people too quick to purchase on price only. My partner
and I often comment on how we rarely see the same faces at distributor
sponsored events from month to month). The smaller the dealer, the more you
should examine his qualifications to do the job, ie: number of accounts,
years in business, backup service capabilities etc. Remember, there is
currently no licensing requirements or background check required to set up a
security business in Ontario.

Agreed. Business is an art, but not all artists can survive.
On the other hand, dealing with a large corporation guarantees you very
little as a consumer, other than most certainly costing you more, with
generally a far less personal level of service, and having to sign a binding
contract which can and often does get sold as these larger corporations
swallow each other up (ADT recently purchased the assets of Honeywell, and
now SecurityLink....)

That's often the nature of business. Some guys like to retire earlier than
others. While others linger.
5- Be just as careful dealing with large companies as you would in dealing
with smaller companies - maybe more so !! Often, being a large corporation,
they can not or will not be as flexible on price or unique requirements that
you may need or ask for. This seems to come about due to a certain level of
"institutionalized bureaucratic stupidity" ingrained in most large
corporations today!! Often too, that dealer who represents himself as the
large national is in fact an independant dealer linked to the national
through an un-monitored "authorized dealer program", and who sells that
account to the large national, largely bowing out of any further involvement
in after sales service (ADT and Voxcom are two mass marketers who operate
dealer programs)

In the Majority no. There are isolated cases where this can be true. While a
small dealer can handle the $1,000.00 install, the often lack the capital to
aquire the $100,000.00 system. I know your talking residential here, but
some people do actually own businesses, who live in homes.
While I admit my bias in this respect, I happen to personally believe that
the best providers of residential security are usually small to medium sized
companies. Large companies excel in large industrial security
applications.

Good companies are diverse in both. It's part of the industry. The
seperation comes from dealers who think they have to be cheap to compete.
They feel consumers are cheap. They through away the actual value of their
services. There's nothing wrong with the personal touch, don't take this the
wrong way. Some dealers are happy in their ways, and growth is not an issue.
If purchasing one of these so called "free" systems, you will be
contractually bound for from $30 per month to as high as $50 per month for a
period of time. If at the end of the contract period, you do not request
your fee to go down to pay just for the monitoring (now that you have
finished financing the system), they will leave your monthly payments at the
higher level. The ethics of this situation I will not bother to comment on
!!.... At this point, shop around for monitoring from another source and do
not pay more than $20 monthly (monthly term contract).

Some consumers choose this road as opposed to a high intial cash outlay.
Some businesses choose to do things that way for tax purposes.
6- Don't pay much attention to companies telling you how their panel is
better than everyone else's. In this industry, every installer / company has
a panel which they prefer and in their mind, everyone else's choices are
poorer. At security get togethers, this is always a point of lively
discussion!! As long as you are buying professional equipment, and it serves
your current and projected needs, all will serve your basic security
requirements (DSC, Paradox, Ademco, Napco, Caddyx, ITI, FBI, Linear,
Europlex, to name a few common makes - Radio Shack and Home Depot systems do
NOT qualify as professional grade equipment!)

Like businesses, Manufacturers provide niches. Whether or not a panel is or
isn't better has little to do with the approach. Dealers that know their
products and the industry trends, are the ones who excel. You can spend 20
years doing something wrong. This industry is a prime example.
7- Choose a hardwired alarm system over a wireless system. Although wireless
systems have come a long way over the last few years, they remain generally
more prone to problems and false than a hardwired system of equal quality.
They are also considerably more expensive. Some difficult locations may
truly require wireless components, but the usual reason a company recommends
wireless is because of the decrease in labour costs involved in not having
to run wiring. This allows them to put in two systems a day rather than one,
thereby generating more monthly recurring monitoring revenue. As well, it
doesn't require qualified installers to complete. Mass market companies
heavily into the "free system" sales concept often specialize in wireless
equipment.

With that statement you should say "don't buy a system from a dealer that
offers any equipment where you can buy the same equipment on the internet
with a credit card", as they are probably NOT factory trained on the product
they represent, or the Manufacturer is only driven by actual sales numbers.
That would wipe out ALL the equipment Manufacturers you listed above.
Wireless systems are just as effective, but can also be mis-abused. Every
application requires a determining factor for it's success.
8- Follow your gut instincts about the person or company you are dealing
with. Do they seem honest in their sales approach to you, or do they exert
high pressure to close the sale. Be especially careful dealing with a pure
salesman who is not himself going to be involved with the actual
installation- they can be tempted to say things to win your business which
may not be accurate or possible to do. Many "security consultants"
(translation - sales staff) are short term in this business (especially with
the mass marketing companies out to sell long term contracts), and may not
be fully knowledgeable about security specifics and alarm system design.
(Doing sub-contract work for large firms, we experience by far the greatest
problems when going in behind a salesperson who has promised impossible
things in order to close the sale, and we then must break the unhappy news
as to what realistically can and should be done).

Salespeople, without them there would be no creativity. Agreed
9- Ask your friends for their experiences with their alarm companies. Did
they come when service was required ? Did the service cost money, and if so,
was the price reasonable? Did the company clean up after themselves? Smart
alarm companies know that word of mouth is the very best advertising for
security services. However, use that as a starting point only, but make your
own decision. Most people (provided they haven't experienced problems) will
wax eloquently about their choice of firms. To do otherwise is against human
nature!

You should have started, and ended with # 9. It would have saved me a shit
load of typing!
10- Ask about the company's "false alarm policies". Reputable companies who
care about their reputation will gladly pick up false alarm fees assessed
due to failure of the actual equipment.

98% of all alarms are false. Find a company that is the oposite. I have one.
11- Discuss up front any special requirements you need to ensure your new
panel has that capability. While you may initially purchase for reasons of
theft prevention, you may later decide to add to the system to cover fire,
heat, cold, gas detection etc. Avoid installing a panel which is at capacity
from day one. Leave yourself room (at least one zone) to add on additional
requirements which you may need in the future.

Backward and Forward compatibility would be nice. But then you would only be
limited to one Manufacturer.
12- Insist that your company check all internal software settings via
upload/download software after installation. Surprisingly, most companies do
not check their panels via upload/download software !!!.....(Even being as
careful as I am, I still make "finger trouble" programming mistakes in one
out of five installations, which need corrective action via uploading). Also
look for a company which programs in "cancel codes" and "recent close codes"
for your protection against false dispatches which can cost you money.

Hopefully, when hiring a professional company, this never comes to play. But
I have seen it happen.
13- When you make your final decision, don't put any money down up front.
That should never be required since the equipment costs are not in the same
league as a furnace or air conditioner !! Smaller firms that do this are
generally running their business on a shoestring budget, and this can be an
indication of the level of service you can expect later on.

There I disagree. If your a cheap ass consumer looking for the cheapest
price...you just found a company running on a shoe-string budget. Most
companies will require money down. I would never do business without it.
Hopefully a consumer is smart enough to have the proposal in writting laying
out the commitments of both parties, including services rendered.
14- Discuss the design of your system with several companies and look for a
design which covers all traffic areas inside the home. For example, one
medium sized company in this area typically installs no motion detectors,
relying solely on glass break detectors to provide inside protection. This
is clearly defective design in that should the burglar pry open a window
rather than break it - far more likely with heavy modern double pane
windows - there is absolutely no protection whatsoever.

Discussing system design is a poor lack of judgement here.
15- Insist on a guarantee that the equipment you are purchasing is not
"proprietary" and can be monitored by any other company. Many larger
companies especially are guilty of installing this type of equipment to
prevent you from leaving them in the future. Insist that after the term of
any contract, should you wish to go elsewhere for your monitoring, that:

Guilty? You should have an Internet site selling alarms, you would go far...
1- Your alarm panel can be serviced by any other monitoring station, and

Hopefully another dealer, not a Monitoring Center.
2- At no cost to you, the company will reset your installers code back to
factory default, and unlock the board so it can be reprogrammed (this is
vital - and get it in writing as part of any contract)

Don't get me started on that issue again.
16- NEVER sign any contract on the spot. Sit down and compare the three
price quotes you obtained, and make your decision in the "calm light of
day". You will likely be with this company for some time, so make the
correct decision up front.

And finally, one last word of caution - any salesman that insists that:

a- The deal is "only good for so long", and that you "must make a decision
now"

That's reserved for car salesmen.
.......or........

b - You should sign up for his deal immediately because "there have been a
lot of robberies on your street", etc should be shown the door in short
order !!

That's reserved for ex-police officers in the alarm industry.
Most importantly, remember that your alarm system can not be effective
unless you have done the physical security updates needed first to keep
thieves out to begin with - good locks, good strikes, patio door security,
and window bars for all your basement windows (sorry... I feel I have to add
this again because it IS every bit as important as your alarm system

That should have been your opening statement. It all starts with risk
management, which you as a professional, deem it to be the last. Sad.

Jack
 
R

RH.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Pretty damn soon I think ! My son is now doing all my installs, and I only
go in befiore and after the fact to check things out, test the system,
paperwork, training, decals etc. I actually have time during the days now
for all the paperwork and assorted chores of running the business rather
than having to do that at night. Most important, it allows me to be very
prompt on the few service calls I do get ! These days, the only real
physical work I do is the takeovers where things have to be cleaned up
before they go on line. It's a nice but unusual feeling to actually have
time for myself and my wife. My son has good quality employment; I keep the
business growing, and he learns things so that one day he can (hopefully)
take over the business. Plus my customers have the assurance they won't get
sold out to the Borg !! (....that'll be a "Frosty Friday in Hell" before
that happens....)

I've also once again opened up my business to take on certain types of DIY
customers in the Ottawa area. And I'll see how that goes !!

Now I'm going to start looking at taking some real vacation time. I have a
buddy who owns a home not far from Sarasota. He's always bugging me to come
down for a month or two in the winter. Once I'm comfortable that things will
run according to my standards, I'm (as the saying goes)..."outa
here"....hmmm....guess I better finish upgrading my own alarm...:))

Keep those burgers hot !!....))

RHC
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh and like you did nothing to deserve it? :)

RH.Campbell said:
Sheesh !......I guess I'm doomed to carry that baggage around forever on
this newsgroup....

RHC
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
But forget the hamburgers. I haven't made a
cheeseburger in almost two years.


Yeah but .. awww forget it --- too easy.
 
T

Tyler Halbrooks

Jan 1, 1970
0
I wonder what your ultimate position would have been if Robert had not made
comment that it was, in fact, taken from his website.

The fact that you didn't put it together that Roberts website and the Robert
that posts here, are one and the same, says something about your cognitive
skills. Put that together with the very fact that you didn't attribute it,
up
front, says quite allot about your experience, the validity and source of
anything else you might say in the future, don't you think?Jim

Jim Do you not think I had not seen Mr. Cambells name in earlier posts. What
gets me is how little contribution comes to this news group. All I have
really seen is nothing but insults and criticism. If you took more time in
finding more constructive and helpful advice and information that would
benefit the majority here I am sure we would all appreciate it. Its not that
I would or would not have admitted the fact that I didn't write the info I
submitted. The fact is it had allot of helpful and truthful information that
serves the betterment of any one in this industry or looking to buy from
this industry. My take on your response is that I believe you wish you had
found something as useful to share with the group and you didn't. What is
interesting to me is that you had nothing negative to say about the article.
How about we focus on what's important rather than pointing fingers.
have a good day
Tyler Halbrooks
 
S

Spike

Jan 1, 1970
0
yada yada yada, all you had to do was post a link to www.homemetal.com and
say you thought it had some great info on alarms. You got caught with your
hand in the cookie jar.
 
S

Spike

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob's a magnet for this kind of thing, Jim. He's kind of a legend around
here. Maybe I can draw him out...

I bet he's just giddy with this latest scandal shit. I thought Martha
Stewart was fun but we're having a ball here... federal gov't scandal,
provincial gov't scandal AND a municipal gov't we're suspicious of
scandal... hang 'em all I say!
"Let them eat cake" Adrienne wails!
I am not a crook! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you Amurican's I implore you, check out
obscure cable or internet www.cfra.com , whatever, we are coming of age !
Look at Toronto! We murder too!
This could be our next Prime Minister www.belinda.com

We will entertain you! We do comedy too!
 
S

Spike

Jan 1, 1970
0
ooops www.belinda.ca


Spike said:
Bob's a magnet for this kind of thing, Jim. He's kind of a legend around
here. Maybe I can draw him out...

I bet he's just giddy with this latest scandal shit. I thought Martha
Stewart was fun but we're having a ball here... federal gov't scandal,
provincial gov't scandal AND a municipal gov't we're suspicious of
scandal... hang 'em all I say!
"Let them eat cake" Adrienne wails!
I am not a crook! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you Amurican's I implore you, check out
obscure cable or internet www.cfra.com , whatever, we are coming of age !
Look at Toronto! We murder too!
This could be our next Prime Minister www.belinda.com

We will entertain you! We do comedy too!

etiquette information,
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hell I'd vote for her. I wonder if Belinda would mind becoming a
spokesperson for the Alarm Industry "Mission Statement"? Sweet.

Jack
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
She wasn't the one who posed nude in her office right after election was
she?
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Spike wrote
say you thought it had some great info on alarms. You got caught with your
hand in the cookie jar.

He sounds like a Rodney sock puppet.
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass wrote
You made a mistake, admitted it and the only person who had a right to be
offended accepted it at that. End of story.

Uh, no, everyone has a right to be offended. The deceit was apparently lost
on you, which comes as no surprise, actually.
js
 
J

Jakes452

Jan 1, 1970
0
My God ..might as well post your credit card number, you
pin and
whetever else you want protected if you use someone from this group! If your
familys saftey is a concern...DO NOT USE THIS GROUP FOR
ADVISE OR GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION. If you deal with someone from this
newsgroup you better keep one eye
open while your sleep at night! this is the worse place to look for info
for your home security. This group is a hive of activity to get your
confidence then rip your off. Get "help" from here and next think your
house is
cleaned out and inexplicably your alarm didnt work......or worse.....
Be very very careful using this group.
Be sure to closely investigate (primarily if you
buy online) any of the online alarm seller, especially if they claim a ASA
certification, a totally false and misleading certification (see that
later). You wouldn't want to buy from someone whose sideline is
understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it later
byknowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. Be wary of those who do
not have a brick and mortar store.

When I was shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised
a ASA certification with a picture of a ASA emblem shown on their website.
It gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that
it was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly
post complaints, with no entries of complaints or follow-through. It was
analogous to someone flashing a police badge that turns out to be fake. The
ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is
misleading and a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someone's unselfish need
to make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the
hope of getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but don't act on
the advice until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by
researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or
screenname into a Google search of past news postings. You will be
surprised, .....no..MAKE THAT SHOCKED....AND I MEAN SHOCKED!!!!..... at what
you find out about those offering to outfit your alarm. How can our legal
system let these type of people sell home security!!!!!

This is a very unregulated online business, and especially risky for
something as important as YOUR HOME security.

good luck....and go talk to someone reputible.
 
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