Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Yo! RF dudes!

J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK, back to square 1.

I know about the 1206 50MHz oscillator. That's fine. I was asking
about the ceramic coaxial resonator oscillator, the one with Q=400
ballpark.

How long does it take to come up to amplitude?

Same as the LC; it starts instantly at full amplitude. Just poke the
proper initial conditions and then let go. It will think it's been
oscillating forever.

John
 
J

jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Heh - Sorry. I had a disk crash in the middle of updating the site and
tried to reconstruct the files from pieces I found on old backups. Then I
stopped using Sympatico many years ago, but they didn't erase the web site.
I can't update it, but I figured I might as well leave it there since it
showed up in google pretty good.

I'm still recovering from the disastrous effects of mold toxins. I'm trying
to build an ozone machine to kill the spores, and will probably begin
moving and updating everything as soon as I get my health back.

why is ozone better than, say, chlorine?
chlorine is easy to make.
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
We have one product that uses a 600 MHz gated oscillator, using a
coaxial ceramic resonator and a mmic.

Speaking of MMICS, Mini-Circuits has switched vendors again, and, one
again, the ERA series is screwed.

John
Hey, since you're on the subject, how well does the mmics transistors
hold up in a strong EMF ? At work we have a board that is mounted near a
large unit that periodically pulses a strong EMF, and now and then, one of
the transistors will simply fail on this board. We can't move the board
any where else! It has to be there.
I know the mmics are made of slightly different materials than the
usual BJTs.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hey, since you're on the subject, how well does the mmics transistors
hold up in a strong EMF ? At work we have a board that is mounted near a
large unit that periodically pulses a strong EMF, and now and then, one of
the transistors will simply fail on this board. We can't move the board
any where else! It has to be there.
I know the mmics are made of slightly different materials than the
usual BJTs.

The slower (1 GHz) mmics are silicon, but the fast stuff (3-10 GHz) is
usually InGaP. Sirenza has some very quiet SiGe parts. And they are
all a bit tender, especially the SiGe. They are also very small chips
run at high current densities, so operating junction temps are high.
But they seem quite reliable once they ate running and not abused.

John
 
M

Mike Monett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Same as the LC; it starts instantly at full amplitude. Just poke
the proper initial conditions and then let go. It will think it's
been oscillating forever.

Sure. A 1/4 wave is a short, just like an inductor. So the same
methods would work.

That would be ideal for your 50MHz gated oscillator. It would solve
the tempco problem forever, and give lower jitter as well.

It would also be perfect for a home-brew HP5370, which is no longer
made. The interpolator might be fun, but well within the capability
of many people here. The other part would be a stable reference
oscillator, but GPS-disciplined oscillators are inexpensive. A
well-equipped lab needs one anyway:)

Regards,

Mike Monett
 
M

Mike Monett

Jan 1, 1970
0
jasen said:
why is ozone better than, say, chlorine? chlorine is easy to make.

Jasen

Mold grows hyphae (a kind of root) into the things it feeds on. It
loves cotton and other organic materials. Here is a SEM photo of a
plant growing on a cotton fibre:

http://fungus.org.uk/images/mildew.jpg

This image is from the article below, where you see mold also
growing on plastic:

http://fungus.org.uk/nwfg/rot.htm

Clothing carries Aspergillus spores into hospitals. So when you
visit your aging grandmother and give her a hug, she may die a week
later from the infection you brought her:

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/01/2.8.01/clothing-spores.html

Mold grows on just about anything, including the concrete in your
basement. Because it is so small it is usually invisible to the
naked eye, so you can have a severe infestation and not be able to
find it.

Here are some excellent images of hyphae and the mold life cycle:

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/pp318/intros/fungi/fungi.htm

The links on this one are very good:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~gbarron/MISCELLANEOUS/hyphae.htm

Some more info on hyphae:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypha

You can kill the exposed part of the plant with bleach, but it grows
back just like a dandelion when you cut the top off. So the only way
to kill the root in fabric is to heat the wet material in a
microwave until it steams. But you have to be careful and not let it
dry under power, or it will catch fire. That is very dangerous since
the inside is hot. As soon as you open it to look inside, oxygen
reaches the material and it bursts into flame. The first instinct is
to toss it in the air, which only makes the problem worse.

While growing, the mold excretes waste products to the outside. It
also excretes the toxins it uses to combat other nearby molds, plus
any other chemicals it cannot use, such as cyanide, from the
material it grows on. This is called Exocytosis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocytosis

The resulting combination can be so toxic that only microgram
amounts are needed to be lethal in 24 hours. This is an ideal poison
since the amount needed is so small, and it is metabolized in the
body so it simply disappears and leaves no trace.

The spores have this coating, so when you breath them into your
lungs, it can make you very ill. Humans developed long after molds
appeared, so we learned to live with the spores and their toxins.

But exposure to high concentrations can destroy your ability to
handle the spores, and you become very, very sick. That is what
happened to me.

The spores have a coating of chitin, which is the same material in
lobster claws and the bodies of insects. This protects the spore
against most environmental hazards such as UV light and most
chemicals. They are not affected by heat - even steam in a microwave
won't kill them. It takes about 240F to kill most of them.

Sodium hypochlorite bleach, NaOCl, cannot penetrate the chitin and
kill the spore.

However, ozone attacks the carbon bonds in the chitin, turning it
into carbon dioxide. This destroys the outer coat and exposes the
core, which kills the spore.

This requires fairly high ozone concentrations, about the maximum
that can be obtained without using oxygen as a feed gas. It also
destroys cotton, rubber, and most other organic fabrics, so you need
to find clothing and bedding made of ozone-resistant materials. I'm
hoping polyester clothing will survive, at least for a while.

Regards,

Mike Monett
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Most xtals, at least cheap ones, are filled with air or nitrogen. Some
of the high-end ones are in vacuum, which does increase Q. We buy some
beautiful vacuum-sealed glass-case oven crystals from Lap-Tech in
Canada. They look like jewelry. I'll post some snaps to abse one of
these days.

I have some from SEL in Germany (later acquired by ITT). Absolutely
high-end.


Thanks. Entered them into the local Wiki file. Sounds like a good place
when I need to design the next custom notch filter to muffle an EMI issue.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jamie said:
Hey, since you're on the subject, how well does the mmics transistors
hold up in a strong EMF ? At work we have a board that is mounted near a
large unit that periodically pulses a strong EMF, and now and then, one of
the transistors will simply fail on this board. We can't move the board
any where else! It has to be there.
I know the mmics are made of slightly different materials than the
usual BJTs.

Have you considered fast diodes? Just don't run them anti-parallel if
you don't want to ruin your IP3. I often use +/-0.6V rails made via a
couple more (cheap) diodes.
 
J

Jorgen Lund-Nielsen

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Most xtals, at least cheap ones, are filled with air or nitrogen. Some
of the high-end ones are in vacuum, which does increase Q. We buy some
beautiful vacuum-sealed glass-case oven crystals from Lap-Tech in
Canada. They look like jewelry. I'll post some snaps to abse one of
these days.

I have an old xtal in glass housing which is filled with neon
ant it lits when its been driven with the resonance frequency and
enough amplitude.
Pictures (not mine) from a "Leuchtquarz" could be found here:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/leuchtquartz.htm

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/luminous_quartz_2.htm

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/leuchtquarze.htm

all is written in dutch, but Joerg can translate it, i think.

Jorgen
 
W

Winfield

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh, does anybody know of a place to get stock surface-mount NTC caps?

Yes. Did you find them yourself yet? I've been meaning to post
the place we get ours from, when I'm at work, but I forget.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes. Did you find them yourself yet? I've been meaning to post
the place we get ours from, when I'm at work, but I forget.

Please tell! We get ours from Murata, reels, special order, 10 week
delivery. I'd like to get some different TCs to try, which is
difficult under those circumstances.

John
 
R

RST Engineering \(jw\)

Jan 1, 1970
0
John ...

You might consider a trick that usually works. Get one or two values of
every TC that is made, all the way from P100 to N7500. I generally find
that for my normal spectrum, 10 and 50 pf work just fine.

Then by a judicious mix of NPO (or the current COG) and a parallel or series
standard TC I can have pretty much any coefficient I want.

Jim
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
John ...

You might consider a trick that usually works. Get one or two values of
every TC that is made, all the way from P100 to N7500.

That's the problem: where can I get a kit of 0603 NTCs?

John
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jorgen said:
I have an old xtal in glass housing which is filled with neon
ant it lits when its been driven with the resonance frequency and
enough amplitude.
Pictures (not mine) from a "Leuchtquarz" could be found here:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/leuchtquartz.htm

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/luminous_quartz_2.htm

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/leuchtquarze.htm

all is written in dutch, but Joerg can translate it, i think.

Cool! Yes, I can read that but what was not explained in the text is
what motivated them to build crystals with optical feedback. What I can
imagine is they could have been used as narrowband signal status
receivers. But probably these had cost an arm and a leg.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
That's the problem: where can I get a kit of 0603 NTCs?

Seriously, I'd try to avoid that. Controlled TC caps have become
boutique parts, prone to vanish from the market in a jiffy and without a
trace. Often all it takes is the termination of a major defense contract.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Please tell! We get ours from Murata, reels, special order,
10 week delivery. I'd like to get some different TCs to try,
which is difficult under those circumstances.

NovaCap capacitors stocked at Garrett Electronics Corp.
http://www.novacap.com/
http://www.garrettelec.com/

Wait, those are NPO / COG, did you say NTC? Awwkk!
Well, you could start with these blokes. Good luck.
 
F

Fred Bartoli

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill a écrit :
NovaCap capacitors stocked at Garrett Electronics Corp.
http://www.novacap.com/
http://www.garrettelec.com/

Wait, those are NPO / COG, did you say NTC? Awwkk!
Well, you could start with these blokes. Good luck.

I saw that some time ago, but following the links didn't gave anything
useful, besides strange. I didn't called them because I had no
application ATM. I you find anything please let us know.

http://www.faradnet.com/catalog/dielect/ceram_tz.htm
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Still having problems? Last time I checked, coaxial ceramic resonators were
available with tempcos of 0 +/- 3 ppm. 10 ppm for the cheap ones:)

Regards,

Mike Monett

I've used them before. As transmission lines, they have very low
impedances, ballpark 10 ohms, so to make an instantly-triggerable
oscillator you wind up needing a lot of supply current. And they're
expensive in moderate quantities and tricky to solder down. The lowest
they go is about 600 MHz, and that's physically huge, so you're
talking ECL drivers and prescalers. The whole product uses only 2.5
watts.

An LC oscillator is ideal for what I'm doing. If I could get some 18
pF N1000 caps, the osc TC would be about zero. As is, I spent most of
the day taking temperature data and came up with a polynomial
temperature curve I can use to tweak the varicap bias... all the
hardware is already there... temperature sensor, tweak dac, varicap
stuff. So I guess we'll go with a software fix.

The other thing that would help would be a zero TC inductor!

John
 

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