3 Wire Smokes?

[JW]

Can/will anyone here be kind enough to recommend a good 3 wire AC smoke
detector? I want to replace our 2 wire system but there are so many on the
market now, I was hoping to find out what you guys like. Thanks

 

[Frank Olson]

Can/will anyone here be kind enough to recommend a good 3 wire AC smoke
detector? I want to replace our 2 wire system but there are so many on the
market now, I was hoping to find out what you guys like. Thanks

No alarm dealer sells, installs or services AC smoke alarms. Talk to
your electrician although he'll probably steer you towards the
"cheapest", not necessarily the best.

 

[Crash Gordon]

Unless, of course they are also licensed electricians.


| JW wrote:
| > Can/will anyone here be kind enough to recommend a good 3 wire AC smoke
| > detector? I want to replace our 2 wire system but there are so many on
the
| > market now, I was hoping to find out what you guys like. Thanks
| >
| >
|
|
| No alarm dealer sells, installs or services AC smoke alarms. Talk to
| your electrician although he'll probably steer you towards the
| "cheapest", not necessarily the best.

 

[FIRETEK]

Avoid ioniztion type detectors manufactured by BRK or Kidde. They're crap.
We've had good experience with the Firex brand of photo-electrics. You can
check them out at:

http://www.icca.invensys.com/firex/

In Canada it's not a requirement (yet) to employ smoke alarms with battery
back-up. I figure you're posting from the US so you're going limit your
search to those photo-electric detectors that have battery backup.

Regards,
Frank

 

[JW]

This is all I was asking for...Thanks

Avoid ioniztion type detectors manufactured by BRK or Kidde. They're
crap.
We've had good experience with the Firex brand of photo-electrics. You
can
check them out at:

http://www.icca.invensys.com/firex/

In Canada it's not a requirement (yet) to employ smoke alarms with battery
back-up. I figure you're posting from the US so you're going limit your
search to those photo-electric detectors that have battery backup.

Regards,
Frank

 

[FIRETEK]

You're welcome. Unlike security alarm installers and service techs, fire
prevention companies service fire and safety equipment in commercial,
institutional, and residential applications usually on an annual basis in
accordance with local codes and ordinances. Property managers that employ
our services often request we test the in-suite smoke alarms. When they
don't work (or the resident disconnects them because they're always
falsing), we replace them. We've had good success with the Firex product
line. I use their 484 detectors in my home as well.

Regards,
Frank

 

[Carnival Midway Hawker]

I use their 484 detectors in my home as well.

Quit sucking ass you gormless titfuck.

Everyone knows you are Frank the bAss hater- so quit your stupid ass
parade.

BTW- have a nice day.

Love,
Bass

 

[Robert L Bass]

Unlike security alarm installers and service

techs, fire prevention companies...

There's no such thing as a fire prevention
company.

Property managers that employ our
services often request we test the
in-suite smoke alarms. When they
don't work (or the resident disconnects
them because they're always falsing)...

Hmm. Who would want to hire a company
whose products fail so miserably?

we replace them. We've had good
success with the Firex product line...

I can understand the "success" you have.
Firex is one of the cheapest brands on the
market. By constantly replacing them the
dealer can make a bundle. Unfortunately,
the customer gets jiminexed having to pay
exorbitant service call charges plus
having to pay to replace the junk detectors
because, as this character admits, they are
always falsing.

 

[FIRETEK]

In line:

There's no such thing as a fire prevention
company.

Quick. You better call up:

Fairlane Fire Prevention Ltd. and Vancouver Fire Prevention Co. Ltd. to tell
them they "don't exist".

Hmm. Who would want to hire a company
whose products fail so miserably?

I dunno. The last guy said he purchased them "online" and couldn't get the
vendor to respond. Something about the email not working and some problem
with a phone in Brazil.

I can understand the "success" you have.
Firex is one of the cheapest brands on the
market.

Really? I don't see you "suggesting" an alternative.

By constantly replacing them the
dealer can make a bundle.

Actually the only one we've had to replace was defective out of the box. We
provided an "advance replacement" on the spot. Can your service "beat"
three minutes?

Unfortunately,
the customer gets jiminexed having to pay
exorbitant service call charges plus
having to pay to replace the junk detectors
because, as this character admits, they are
always falsing.

Ummm... We're there to perform the annual test on the fire alarm system.
Replacing defective smoke alarms is part of the service. The client is
billed for the cost of the detector which includes a "modest 35 percent
markup".

 

[Robert L Bass]

There's no such thing as a fire prevention

Quick. You better call up:

Fairlane Fire Prevention Ltd. and
Vancouver Fire Prevention Co. Ltd.
to tell them they "don't exist".

You can call yourself Levitating Ladder
Man. But that doesn't mean you can
levitate ladders. Heck, you can even
name your company Airliner-nap-Roller.com
but you'll still be a liar.

I dunno...

That's the first honest thing you've ever said.

Really? I don't see you "suggesting"
an alternative.

System Sensor.
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com/system_sensor_smoke_detectors_1552_ctg.htm

Actually the only one we've had to
replace was defective out of the box.

Bullshit! You just said you routinely
replace them because they constantly
false. Besides, you're not a technician
anyway.

We provided an "advance replacement"
on the spot. Can your service "beat"
three minutes?

[resisting temptation to suggest
what you are beating]

Ummm... We're there to perform
the annual test on the fire alarm system.

Wherein you find all those bad out of
the box pieces? You're lying again.

Replacing defective smoke alarms is
part of the service.

Bad out of the box? Bad after one year?
Which is it? Make up your mind.

 

[FIRETEK]

I think "levitating ladders" was your "contribution" to Frank's story. I'll
have to Google to verify, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

As for the "rest", it's obvious meaningful discourse isn't something you're
at all interested in. Mark's right. The further a "thread" like this goes
on and the more people point out your errors, the more you resort to three
or four word responses that obviously provide you with your only form of
real "enjoyment".

Sad, really.

Regards,
Frank


Nothing of value.

 

[Robert L Bass]

There's no such thing as a fire prevention

If you compare and contrast futures of a
typical burglar alarm system versus a
typical fire alarm system, and the words
detection versus prevention, I think
prevention is more valid for fire alarm
systems.

With all due respect, Roland, how many
fires do you suppose the average fire alarm
system prevents? I would say the percentage
is less than that of burglaries which a burglar
alarm prevents. Think about it for a minute
(Cracker will need several days). It's safe to
say that some thieves decide not to burglarise
a particular place because there's an alarm.
A certain percentage stop and retreat upon
hearing the alarm.

Fire neither knows nor cares if there's an
alarm. It consumes whatever it can,
regardless of the existence or activation of
a fire alarm.

Other than say a man trap on an access
control system there is little "prevention"
offered form a burglar alarm system,
mostly it is for detection.

A fire alarm system can not only detect fire,
it can offer "prevention" of sorts. A fire
alarm system can be designed to close
doors (like in nursing homes and hospitals),
close dampers, turn off air handlers, recall
elevators, and even activate fire suppression
systems like Ansul or other chemical fire
retardant chemicals in a computer room, or
communications closet for example...

This may be more a matter of semantics, but
IMO those are all responses to a fire once
detected -- not prevention of the fire in the
first place.

Although that might not "prevent" the
actual fire from starting, it can help to
slow or even "prevent" the fire from
spreading...

Certainly suppression systems can well,
suppress a fire but in most cases the
suppression system activates the fire alarm
-- not the other way around. Even an Ansul
system is usually activated by heat rather
than an alarm system.

Fire doors and dampers close or, in the case
of exterior doors, release upon alarm first to
prevent the spread of smoke and to speed
egress of persons on the premises. They can
slow the progress of fire but in the absence of
a sprinkler system they don't usually stop the
eventual spread of the fire.

How fine a point you want to put on
prevention is up to the individual to decide.

Perhaps, but I dislike the use of misleading
terminology in the alarm industry. For example,
there used to be a character in Hartford who
called his alarm company the "Alarm Agency of
Hartford County." Technically, one could call
an company an agency but the way he phrased
it was a deliberate attempt to mislead. Apparently
it wasn't all that effective though. He went out of
business many years ago.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Frank Olson]

Robert L Bass wrote:

Perhaps, but I dislike the use of misleading
terminology in the alarm industry.

You mean like when you say you "install" in the present tense or answer
a question that could easily mislead someone into believing you still
install and service alarm systems for a living? You mean like when you
say you ran an alarm company for 24 years? Or how you still "believe"
you're "in the trade"?

For example,
there used to be a character in Hartford who
called his alarm company the "Alarm Agency of
Hartford County."

Must have taken a few pointers from the Bassinator then...

Technically, one could call
an company

That's "a" company.

an agency but the way he phrased
it was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

Like I said... It's not far off from what you do regularly...

Apparently
it wasn't all that effective though.

It's not that "effective" here either. Most can see right through your
misleading comments, outright lies, innuendo, and dishonesty. That's
not rocket science.

He went out of
business many years ago.

Nah... He just changed the name to Bass Burglar Alarms.

 

[FIRETEK]

In Line.

With all due respect, Roland, how many
fires do you suppose the average fire alarm
system prevents?

That depends on whether or not the system activates early enough to prevent
an actual flame from developing. Fire "prevention" companies do a great
deal more than simply testing whether or not the devices that form part of a
fire alarm sytem funciton as intended. You wouldn't know this because
you're in "denial" that there's any such thing as a "fire prevention
company".

I would say the percentage
is less than that of burglaries which a burglar
alarm prevents.

Does a burglar alarm actually "prevent" a burglary? If you believe in the
"hype" that's frequently presented in radio advertisements, perhaps. If
*you* say it often enough, maybe. Most of us take steps beyond the
installation of a burglar alarm, though. You just sell "parts" so you
wouldn't be aware of all this.

Think about it for a minute
(Cracker will need several days). It's safe to
say that some thieves decide not to burglarise
a particular place because there's an alarm.
A certain percentage stop and retreat upon
hearing the alarm.

Fire neither knows nor cares if there's an
alarm. It consumes whatever it can,
regardless of the existence or activation of
a fire alarm.

Not necessarily. If you can prevent a fire from developing into a full
fledged conflagration (through early detection), then you'll minimize the
damge to property and the risk to life.

This may be more a matter of semantics, but
IMO those are all responses to a fire once
detected -- not prevention of the fire in the
first place.


Certainly suppression systems can well,
suppress a fire but in most cases the
suppression system activates the fire alarm
-- not the other way around. Even an Ansul
system is usually activated by heat rather
than an alarm system.

Then you know nothing about the fixed supupression systems that employ
agents lilke Halon 1301, CO2 or interface with water based deluge systems.
Smoke detectors are most often used and a releasing panel made by such
manufacturers as Notifier, Potter, Siemens, and Edwards are usually at the
"head end". In some computer rooms, it's often desireable to release the
Halon (or the newer so-called "clean agents") before the heat from a flaming
fire can damage equipment. The rooms are sealed, air conditioning and power
circuits are shut down, and the agent is allowed to "soak" the room it's
protecting until fire fighting personnel arrive and are able to identify and
deal with the source of the trouble.

Fire doors and dampers close or, in the case
of exterior doors, release upon alarm first to
prevent the spread of smoke and to speed
egress of persons on the premises. They can
slow the progress of fire but in the absence of
a sprinkler system they don't usually stop the
eventual spread of the fire.

The point is that if you can detect the fire in the early stages, you have a
better chance of ensuring it doesn't "progress" to something that could
become unmanagble, or risk life and property.

 

[Robert L Bass]

That depends on whether or not the

system activates early enough to
prevent an actual flame from developing.

It's still not preventing fire.

Does a burglar alarm actually "prevent"
a burglary?

Occasionally, yes.

If you believe in the "hype" that's frequently
presented in radio advertisements, perhaps.

I don't believe the BS ads from ADT, Brinks,
etc. However, we all know of cases where the
thief left without entering because the alarm
sounded. There exists statistical evidence
as well which suggests that some thieves
try to select homes without alarms. To
whatever extent that is true there are cases
where a specific burglary has been avoided
because of the alarms system.

If *you* say it often enough, maybe...

I've probably mentioned it here before but
not often. In fact, I consider many professional
alarm installations inadequate at best.

Most of us take steps beyond the
installation of a burglar alarm, though.

Yes. You *walk* to your van, drive off and
*run* to the bank with the first RMR check.

You just sell "parts" so you
wouldn't be aware of all this.

My average system sale is far more
comprehensive than anything someone like
you is likely to install.

Not necessarily. If you can prevent a fire
from developing into a full fledged
conflagration (through early detection),
then you'll minimize the damge to property
and the risk to life.

It would be very nice if most professional
fire alarms would do that.

Then you know nothing about the fixed
supupression systems that employ
agents lilke Halon 1301, CO2...

Wrong again (as usual). Those are the
exception. *Most* fire alarm installations
do not include automatic release of anything
but the interior door holders.

--- snip blather ---

The point is that if you can detect the fire

If you have detected a fire you have not prevented it. You may be able to deal with it sooner but you have not prevented a fire.
Perhaps a remedial reading course would help you out.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[FIRETEK]

It's still not preventing fire.


Occasionally, yes.
Sure.



I don't believe the BS ads from ADT, Brinks,
etc.

Yet you expect us to believe the "BS" you spout in here almost daily?

However, we all know of cases where the
thief left without entering because the alarm
sounded.

That might be the prudent choice, Bass. I'd also suggest not removing your
mask until you're well away from the house because some homeowners employ
CCTV systems as well.

There exists statistical evidence
as well which suggests that some thieves
try to select homes without alarms.

Yes, of course there is. AlarmForce even has a case study available on
their website. I'm not inclined to believe a convicted felon about what
burglar alarm providers he "avoids" just as I'm not inclined to believe you.
Convicted felons are the biggest bullshit artists.

I've probably mentioned it here before but
not often. In fact, I consider many professional
alarm installations inadequate at best.

And I consider your contribution to this group as a whole "inadequate at
best".

Yes. You *walk* to your van, drive off and
*run* to the bank with the first RMR check.

I've no idea what you're nattering on about. I'm not involved in collecting
"RMR". I don't install, service, or monitor burglar alarm systems.

My average system sale is far more
comprehensive than anything someone like
you is likely to install.

That's actually the first thing you've written here that has an "ounce" of
truth because I don't install burglar alarms. I work with fire alarm,
access control, and CCTV systems (mostly in multi-residential and commercial
high rise buildings).

It would be very nice if most professional
fire alarms would do that.

You mean the ones your customers install don't? Perhaps if you were more
familiar with fire alarm system design and function, you might be able to
suggest better equipment. I'd suggest a NICET course (or two) might be in
order.

Wrong again (as usual). Those are the
exception. *Most* fire alarm installations
do not include automatic release of anything
but the interior door holders.

The subject to which you responded was "fire prevention" (and more
specifically "fire prevention companies" which you stated "didn't exist").
Perhaps if you weren't so interested in one-up-man-ship, you could focus
better.

If you have detected a fire you have not prevented it. You may be able to

deal with it sooner but you have not prevented a fire.

Perhaps a remedial reading course would help you out.

If you detect a fire in it's early stages, then you can do something about
preventing it's spread. Perhaps a remedial reading and fire alarm course
would help you out.