A myth about Generators and backfeeding

[Raul]

There's an internet myth about a $10,000 fine for backfeeding a residence with a generator.

I have searched and searched my state and other states and federal code for a statute that imposes such a fine and have found nothing.

In fact the Governor of NJ has a web page discussing exactly the topic of back feeding and nowhere is there a mention of any fines.
The governor implores people to use caution and to do it using an electrician.

I think the whole fine thing is a fiction of the power companies.

It is a fact is that if one fails to disconnect the generator backfed house from the mains coming in from the utility service that very bad things can happen including loss of life for some poor sod who takes for granted that the power is going to be down and fails to test a line before servicing it. Bad day for him.
The result can be death for him and very possibly a species of manslaughter or homicide charges for the homeowner who set the genny up. Certainly his family will sue the living begeebus out of the homeowner.

Then there's your insurance company which will probably refuse to pay claiming that you were doing something prohibited by code and that's why the house burnt.


Any given state or town may have code violations it can pursue too.
But I've never seen a $10,000 fine anywhere other than in various internet forums where some poster just believes it to be true and repeats it like it was gospel.
There's one in this forum from 2010 claiming to know about this fine.


If on the off chance you know of a statute in any state or at federal that provides for this $10,000 fine I would very much like to learn what state, code section, and title it is under.
I haven't found it and I do not believe it exists.


What put me on to this was a self proclaimed expert unspooling me some 4 wire #6 multistrand in a home depot ( to use as a backfeeding cord) who adamantly insisted that, if caught, I'd face this mythical fine. I didn't challenge him, he didn't need to hear my resume. And of course I am not an expert in residential electrical code. Hell I barely know it exists. But, It seemed such a huge fine and he seemed to adamant and he was knowledgeable about the things an electrician needed to be knowledgeable about.
So, not wanting to be the dummy who didn't look into things, I went to my sources and sought out this fine and found nothing.


Maybe it's got nothing to do with generators per se but rather it's tied to a person screwing around with the power and harming some one or some thing? Maybe using backfeeding as the dominant search ?

Kansas has this:
17-1907 and 17-1908 wich has a $500 fine and a year in prison

MD has
Section 6-303 - Public utility interference - Electrical equipment.
Which has a $500 fine

TX has title 43 and 49 and it has fines

CA has similar statutes with fines

But no Tend Grand fines have I found.

 

[GreenGiant]

I don't think there is a fine, but it may have just been a ruse to get people not to backfeed, it is really not good for your generator or anything, if you connect to the main lines with a measly 5... 10... 50kW generator (super large for residential use I know, Im just using it as an example) chances are it would almost immediately be overloaded.
You also have no way of knowing if someone else is backfeeding, and that could lead to a blown transformer (approximate cost about $10,000... this may be where the fine comes from), or other problems.

Also when power comes back on there would be nothing stopping it from destroying the generator by flooding it with power going the other way.

most power companies will install a special meter that allows for backfeeding if you have solar panels or a wind turbine or something like that. Those meters would be the only safe way to backfeed.

 

[BobK]

You also have no way of knowing if someone else is backfeeding, and that could lead to a blown transformer (approximate cost about $10,000... this may be where the fine comes from), or other problems.

Also when power comes back on there would be nothing stopping it from destroying the generator by flooding it with power going the other way.

You MUST disconnect from the incoming power in order to backfeed, i.e. open the main breaker coming in to your panel. Then the two problems above are avoided.

Bob

 

[Laplace]

Then how do people with solar power systems sell their excess power back to the power company? In some U.S. states I believe state law requires the power company to accept solar/wind power from individuals and even sets a generous rate for reimbursement. How would a generator be different?

 

[GonzoEngineer]

I had a twerp at Home Depot once tell me that Torx drivers were illegal!

I told him he was an idiot, and he got all in my face.

He also got fired!

 

[BobK]

Then how do people with solar power systems sell their excess power back to the power company? In some U.S. states I believe state law requires the power company to accept solar/wind power from individuals and even sets a generous rate for reimbursement. How would a generator be different?

That is not what the OP is referring to. Backfeeding is simply connecting your generator to your house wiring when the electricity out due to a storm or whatever. Not putting power onto the grid.

Bob

 

[john monks]

When I lived in the mountains the power was out about half the time so generators were used. We used double throw double pole knife switches so as to be sure not to back feed power back into the utility. Running AC back into the transformer on the power pole would cause the voltage to reach about 12,000 volts and that could kill a line man working on the wires.

Here is the link: www.dir.ca.gov/title8/2833-1.html

 

[BlairH]

Phasing is critical

In addition to the issue that backfeeding during an outage can cause a dangerous situation for the utility workers, the other problem is that the generator must be in phase with the power grid when power is restored. If the generator is out of phase, really bad things happen. It is like crossing the wires when jump starting a car. Since the generator is driving positive while the grid is driving negative, they are fighting each other and the generator and possibility the wiring to your house will lose.

Solar array controllers are designed to sync up with the phase of the grid such that this problem doesn't occur.

 

[(*steve*)]

In addition to the issue that backfeeding during an outage can cause a dangerous situation for the utility workers, the other problem is that the generator must be in phase with the power grid when power is restored.

If you don't disconnect from the mains when you try this you're a fool.

Also your generator will try to power the neighbourhood (and let's see how well that turns out for you).

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

I think it's possible to feed locally generated energy onto the power grid if that's allowed by the utility company.

Of course there are many requirements - obviously, your generator must be locked to the utility's phase and frequency, and the equipment needed to couple them together would not be simple. It would have to control the amount of energy transferred to the grid so that as much as possible of your spare energy was transferred to the grid, but if the grid power failed, your generator would not try to supply the whole neighbourhood.

The issue of lineman safety is important. I suppose the coupling circuit would need to detect failure of the line power source - perhaps by detecting when the grid started trying to draw a huge amount of power. But there would be potential safety issues.

You need to talk to someone who works for an electric power distribution utility, who really knows about this stuff.