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circuit to cause engine to run on briefly

K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
This is for a waste-vegetable-oil diesel conversion. Before shutting
down, you have to switch the engine over to "regular" diesel fuel and
run it for about thirty seconds to clear the wvo out of the injectors
and such, so they don't get gummed up. My buddy doesn't want to have
to sit in the car after parking it if he forgets to switch over to
diesel a block or two before parking and shutting off the engine; or
even worse, forget altogether and end up mucking up the engine. So he
wants a circuit that will cause the engine to switch over to the diesel
line automatically and run for an extra half minute or so after he
turns the ignition key off.

Here's a block diagram of my initial idea for the part of the circuit
that
will cause the engine to run on briefly after turning off the key:

keyed 12 volts
|
+------------------,
| |
| ___|___
| | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+-----| npn
| | |
--- \ e\
--- / |
| \ |
| / |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd
And use cap and resistor values to give the right amount of run-on
time. Obviously it works by maintaining some voltage in the cap for a
while, until
the resistor (and base current) drains it low enough to where it won't
hold the transistor on.


As for causing the plumbing to switch from wvo to diesel when he turns
the key off, we can accomplish that by using a 12 volt solenoid in the
wvo plumbing line,
so that when the operator turns the key off, the solenoid drops out and
the engine's plumbing reverts to the diesel fuel line.

Any feedback? I think there might even be a simple circuit that would
do the job with just a relay and cap.
 
K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
switched 12 volts
|
| 12 volts
| |
| ___|___
| | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+-----| npn
| | |
--- \ e\
--- / |
| \ |
| / |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd

D'oh, this is the correct diagram.
 
K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Excuse me, it needs a base resistor too.
switched 12 volts
|
| 12 volts
| |
| ___|___
| | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+--R--| npn
| | |
--- | e\
--- R |
| | |
| | |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd
 
B

Brian

Jan 1, 1970
0
kell said:
Excuse me, it needs a base resistor too.
switched 12 volts
|
| 12 volts
| |
| ___|___
| | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+--R--| npn
| | |
--- | e\
--- R |
| | |
| | |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd

That will probably work. If there is anything else on the switched line
(that is coming into the capacitor), you will need to put a diode in that
line, to keep it from discharging the capacitor too (put the anode to the
switched voltage line and the cathode to the capacitor). Also, don't forget
to put a diode across the relay too (so it won't feed a spike back into the
transistor, when it switches off).

Brian
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
kell said:
This is for a waste-vegetable-oil diesel conversion. Before shutting
down, you have to switch the engine over to "regular" diesel fuel and
run it for about thirty seconds to clear the wvo out of the injectors
and such, so they don't get gummed up. My buddy doesn't want to have
to sit in the car after parking it if he forgets to switch over to
diesel a block or two before parking and shutting off the engine; or
even worse, forget altogether and end up mucking up the engine. So he
wants a circuit that will cause the engine to switch over to the diesel
line automatically and run for an extra half minute or so after he
turns the ignition key off.

Here's a block diagram of my initial idea for the part of the circuit
that
will cause the engine to run on briefly after turning off the key:

keyed 12 volts
|
+------------------,
| |
| ___|___
| | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+-----| npn
| | |
--- \ e\
--- / |
| \ |
| / |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd
And use cap and resistor values to give the right amount of run-on
time. Obviously it works by maintaining some voltage in the cap for a
while, until
the resistor (and base current) drains it low enough to where it won't
hold the transistor on.


As for causing the plumbing to switch from wvo to diesel when he turns
the key off, we can accomplish that by using a 12 volt solenoid in the
wvo plumbing line,
so that when the operator turns the key off, the solenoid drops out and
the engine's plumbing reverts to the diesel fuel line.

Any feedback? I think there might even be a simple circuit that would
do the job with just a relay and cap.

Yes there is (cap in parallel with coil), but for
a 30 second delay, you need a big, and therefore
costly, cap. The transistor circuit avoids that.
I've gotten some relatively long (up to 10 minutes)
delays using a darlington in the circuit - keeps the
base current small and therefore discharge rate of
the cap is slow so you can use a much smaller cap.

Oh - and you don't need a backwards diode across
the relay coil as another poster suggested.

Now for the ugly part: what protects the engine
if the ciruit fails?

Ed
 
K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
switched 12 volts
|
| 12 volts
| |
| ___|___
| | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+--R--| npn
| | |
--- | e\
--- R |
| | |
| | |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd

Yes there is (cap in parallel with coil), but for
a 30 second delay, you need a big, and therefore
costly, cap. The transistor circuit avoids that.
I've gotten some relatively long (up to 10 minutes)
delays using a darlington in the circuit - keeps the
base current small and therefore discharge rate of
the cap is slow so you can use a much smaller cap.

Oh - and you don't need a backwards diode across
the relay coil as another poster suggested.

Now for the ugly part: what protects the engine
if the ciruit fails?

Ed
Well, I guess the engine would die.
The answer might be to have a redundant circuit wired to the ignition
switch. Then, if the circuit fails, at least the car won't die on the
highway.
The run-on function would fail.
Thanks
Kell
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Excuse me, it needs a base resistor too.

I'd put in an isolation diode, so that when the switched 12V goes
to ground, the other switched loads on the line don't immediately
discharge the cap:
switched 12 volts
|
| 12 volts
| |
V 1N400X ___|___
--- or so | |
| | relay |---->to engine
| |_______|
| |
| |
| c/
| |
'----+-----+--R--| npn
| | |
--- | e\
--- R |
| | |
| | |
| | |
'-----'-------'-----gnd

And don't forget to protect the whole thing with a hash choke and
transzorb - automotive (and truck, etc) power is notoriously dirty.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
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