Frequent computer & bulb blow-outs in new home: electrician stumped

[[email protected]]

Hi all,

Moved into a new house 4 months ago and have had a rash of electrical
problems. Bad luck or do we need to take action?

Quick history: No history of electronic problems before the move. 2
weeks after moving in: logic board on PowerMac G4 died. Bought new
PowerMac G5 -> 1 week later logic board died on that computer. 1 week
later: powered Firewire hub burned out. 2 days later->Linksys wireless
router burned out. 2 weeks later Apple monitor (only 3 weeks old) blew
out. Equipment is all surge protected with local protectors but
those have never tripped (actually I have 4 surge protectors (APC and
Belkin) from different outlets and dead equipment was spread out among
them). Network connections also surge protected.

The other strange feature is that light bulbs thoughout the house last
about 30-60 days (high quality bulbs, not cheapos). Never had
multiple bulbs blow at once though nor have we ever blown a fuse.
House itself was built just 5 years ago so fairly new wiring.

Hired an electrician who couldn't find anything wrong. (Voltage
normal, no current or voltage fluctuations, etc.).

So now what? Have we just been unlucky? Since all the bulbs keep
burning out I suspect the problem has to do with the "quality" of our
electricity. However, I'm not sure what to do about it. After
spending about $5K replacing equipment over the last 4 months plus all
the annoyance, I'm ready to take action.

Any suggestions as to the cause? What types of electricial
abnormalities could cause these symptoms? Are there electricians who
specialize in power quality issues? (I called three local guys and they
all said they did) Or should I just purchase a whole house voltage
stabilzer to see if that works? Or should I buy something else?

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Tim

 

[Phil Allison]

The other strange feature is that light bulbs thoughout the house last
about 30-60 days (high quality bulbs, not cheapos). Never had
multiple bulbs blow at once though nor have we ever blown a fuse.
House itself was built just 5 years ago so fairly new wiring.

Hired an electrician who couldn't find anything wrong. (Voltage
normal, no current or voltage fluctuations, etc.).

** You may need to call out an Electrical Engineer - look on up in the
commercial phone book.

He would likely fit a voltage monitoring device to your house's power
system. There are a number of nasty problems that can cause the AC voltage
to rise beyond the normal tolerances at various times.

Also, get yourself a digital multimeter and do your own voltage checks on a
continuous basis.


BTW

See the title of this NG ?

Says "electronics" - not "electricity ".




........ Phil

 

[Don Bruder]

Hi all,

Moved into a new house 4 months ago and have had a rash of electrical
problems. Bad luck or do we need to take action?

Quick history: No history of electronic problems before the move. 2
weeks after moving in: logic board on PowerMac G4 died. Bought new
PowerMac G5 -> 1 week later logic board died on that computer. 1 week
later: powered Firewire hub burned out. 2 days later->Linksys wireless
router burned out. 2 weeks later Apple monitor (only 3 weeks old) blew
out. Equipment is all surge protected with local protectors but
those have never tripped (actually I have 4 surge protectors (APC and
Belkin) from different outlets and dead equipment was spread out among
them). Network connections also surge protected.

The other strange feature is that light bulbs thoughout the house last
about 30-60 days (high quality bulbs, not cheapos). Never had
multiple bulbs blow at once though nor have we ever blown a fuse.
House itself was built just 5 years ago so fairly new wiring.

Hired an electrician who couldn't find anything wrong. (Voltage
normal, no current or voltage fluctuations, etc.).

So now what? Have we just been unlucky? Since all the bulbs keep
burning out I suspect the problem has to do with the "quality" of our
electricity. However, I'm not sure what to do about it. After
spending about $5K replacing equipment over the last 4 months plus all
the annoyance, I'm ready to take action.

Any suggestions as to the cause? What types of electricial
abnormalities could cause these symptoms? Are there electricians who
specialize in power quality issues? (I called three local guys and they
all said they did) Or should I just purchase a whole house voltage
stabilzer to see if that works? Or should I buy something else?

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Tim

You've clearly got *SOMETHING* surging somewhere. The problem is
isolating the "where", since it sounds fairly obvious that nothing has
manifested while the pro was there to look at it (I HATE those kinds of
problems... and who doesn't?)

You might need to set up a recording voltmeter to see what the line
looks like over an extended period.

Meanwhile, I think I'd not be leaving anything powered on/plugged in
when not *DIRECTLY* in use...

 

[Chris]

Hi all,

Moved into a new house 4 months ago and have had a rash of electrical
problems. Bad luck or do we need to take action?

Quick history: No history of electronic problems before the move. 2
weeks after moving in: logic board on PowerMac G4 died. Bought new
PowerMac G5 -> 1 week later logic board died on that computer. 1 week
later: powered Firewire hub burned out. 2 days later->Linksys wireless
router burned out. 2 weeks later Apple monitor (only 3 weeks old) blew
out. Equipment is all surge protected with local protectors but
those have never tripped (actually I have 4 surge protectors (APC and
Belkin) from different outlets and dead equipment was spread out among
them). Network connections also surge protected.

The other strange feature is that light bulbs thoughout the house last
about 30-60 days (high quality bulbs, not cheapos). Never had
multiple bulbs blow at once though nor have we ever blown a fuse.
House itself was built just 5 years ago so fairly new wiring.

Hired an electrician who couldn't find anything wrong. (Voltage
normal, no current or voltage fluctuations, etc.).

So now what? Have we just been unlucky? Since all the bulbs keep
burning out I suspect the problem has to do with the "quality" of our
electricity. However, I'm not sure what to do about it. After
spending about $5K replacing equipment over the last 4 months plus all
the annoyance, I'm ready to take action.

Any suggestions as to the cause? What types of electricial
abnormalities could cause these symptoms? Are there electricians who
specialize in power quality issues? (I called three local guys and they
all said they did) Or should I just purchase a whole house voltage
stabilzer to see if that works? Or should I buy something else?

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Tim

Hi, Tim. All of this sounds like you've got electrical wiring problems
in your new home, for sure.

First off, your issues with the computer electronics might indicate
grounding opens or intermittents, and possibly line/neutral reversal.
If you've got one of those plug-in outlet checkers, you could do worse
than just seeing what that has to tell you. Wiggle it around a little
when it's plugged in, just for yuks. You should also look at the cold
water grounding connection at the box.

On the light bulb side, you're possibly looking at inbalanced loading
of the two phases coming off the pole transformer. This imbalance can
result in voltage on one phase jumping way up as the other phase bogs
down. This can easily fry your light bulbs. And if you're sharing a
transformer with neighbors, that could make the problem worse. Your
load and theirs should be balanced on the phases.

Now if you have a DVM that can safely measure line voltage, you should
attach it to an outlet, and see what happens when you start turning on
and off the high current loads in the house together (fridge,
washer/dryer, A/C, &c). Also, you might just want to watch it for a
while if you and your neighbors share the transformer. It sounds like
there might be issues there -- also, your neighbors may be having the
same problem. Ask around.

Surge protectors don't protect against plain old high line voltage,
anyway. They're made for spikes which far exceed the peak line
voltage.

Botched wiring jobs do happen, particularly in areas of the country
where enforcement of electrical licensing for subcontractors is
somewhat lax, or where the housing bubble has the builders scrambling
to keep up. Electrician's assistants can be miserably trained
sometimes. The contractor might also be politically connected --
that's the way things work these days. A few campaign contributions,
and all of a sudden the inspectors get very friendly.

On the more positive side, if this is a new house, and the contractor's
electrician did something wrong, you should at a minimum be compensated
by the immediate repair of the defective wiring, and possibly receive
some compensation for equipment damaged as a result of those mistakes
(save your receipts).

Even if you're relatively savvy about electrical wiring, you should
have an independent electrician (not the contractor's or developer's)
take an independent look at your wiring as soon as possible, and
evaluate it for mistakes. After you've documented any problems, you
can talk to the developer or contractor with some hope of getting
immediate action.

And focus on getting the problems remediated, instead of going through
the dance in court. Contractor lawsuits take years to resolve, and it
won't get you that much more than you would have gotten just by getting
the contractor to cooperate. You'll have a hard time proving the
expensive computer stuff was smoked by these problems. Also, your
description of your issues is troubling -- you really should get it
taken care of right away.

Good luck
Chris

 

[DJ Delorie]

Note that our power company had a special monitor they put between our
meter and the box, to monitor for fluctuations and such over time.
Yours might have something similar.

 

[John Popelish]

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Tim

I would be suspicious of the continuity of the neutral connection
between the pole transformer and the house. If this conductor
momentarily opens, the 240 volts is divided into two parts by the
loads in series on the two halves of the circuit. One half will
momentarily droop mad the other half will rise, unless the two sides
are loaded identically. The situation may occur for fractions of a
second, and only at certain times of the day, possibly depending on
temperature. Most surge suppressors do not activate enough to do
anything useful till the line voltage is almost double normal. But a
several second overload of 30% may simple overheat them.

You may want to have an engineer hook a Dranetz line monitor to your
power panel, to record any excursions outside normal limits.
Something like that may be the only way to collect evidence of what is
actually happening.

Another trick that might give you a lead is to walk around the house
and between the power pole, service entrance and house, with a pocket
AM radio, tuned between stations at the low end of the band. Listen
for bursts of static with a 120 hertz buzz that are generated whenever
any line conductor has a sustained arc. The problem may be generating
RFI, even when it is not causing other symptoms.

 

[Yukio YANO]

Hi all,

Moved into a new house 4 months ago and have had a rash of electrical
problems. Bad luck or do we need to take action?



Any suggestions as to the cause? What types of electricial
abnormalities could cause these symptoms? Are there electricians who
specialize in power quality issues? (I called three local guys and they
all said they did) Or should I just purchase a whole house voltage
stabilzer to see if that works? Or should I buy something else?

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Tim

FLOATING NEUTRAL ????


I am surprised that these "three local guys" didn't all say in a
chorus "Check for a floating neutral" or are you running Aluminum Wire.
The main problem with aluminum wire is a tendency for connections to
loosen from thermal cycling over time (5 years ?). Even all Copper
systems can occasionally have a loose Neutral wire. With a "floating
Neutral" , you can have almost as much as 220 Volts AC occaisonaly
appear on a normal 110 Volt outlet.

The problem here is, unless you are looking specifically for this
condition the symptoms you are trying to describe are INTERMITTANT and
will not show up on a random measurement of Line Voltage

You don't mention lights, dimming or flaring (just burning-out too
often) as thermostated or timered loads such as washing machines or
air-conditioners cycle on and off, or Toasters or Microwave Ovens. It
will appears odd that heavy 220 Volt appliances such as Stoves and
Clothes Dryers will not cause problems because they are wired such as to
not require the Neutral return.

Yukio YANO

 

[Ken Moffett]

[email protected] wrote in @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Hi all,

Moved into a new house 4 months ago and have had a rash of electrical
problems. Bad luck or do we need to take action?

Quick history: No history of electronic problems before the move. 2
weeks after moving in: logic board on PowerMac G4 died. Bought new
PowerMac G5 -> 1 week later logic board died on that computer. 1 week
later: powered Firewire hub burned out. 2 days later->Linksys wireless
router burned out. 2 weeks later Apple monitor (only 3 weeks old) blew
out. Equipment is all surge protected with local protectors but
those have never tripped (actually I have 4 surge protectors (APC and
Belkin) from different outlets and dead equipment was spread out among
them). Network connections also surge protected.

The other strange feature is that light bulbs thoughout the house last
about 30-60 days (high quality bulbs, not cheapos). Never had
multiple bulbs blow at once though nor have we ever blown a fuse.
House itself was built just 5 years ago so fairly new wiring.

Hired an electrician who couldn't find anything wrong. (Voltage
normal, no current or voltage fluctuations, etc.).

So now what? Have we just been unlucky? Since all the bulbs keep
burning out I suspect the problem has to do with the "quality" of our
electricity. However, I'm not sure what to do about it. After
spending about $5K replacing equipment over the last 4 months plus all
the annoyance, I'm ready to take action.

Any suggestions as to the cause? What types of electricial
abnormalities could cause these symptoms? Are there electricians who
specialize in power quality issues? (I called three local guys and they
all said they did) Or should I just purchase a whole house voltage
stabilzer to see if that works? Or should I buy something else?

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Tim

Something like thas was happening in my parents home. Turned out to be an
intermittent neutral connection at the power pole. When it opened (wind
related), the voltage on the two 110v halves of the 220v feed would go up
or down depending on the load on each circuit. In affect, the two circuits
were temporarily wired in series as a voltage divider. Dad happened to spot
the arcing at the pole during a storm. The electrician tightened the
connecton, and no more blown bulbs.

 

[Pooh Bear]

[email protected] wrote in @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:


Something like thas was happening in my parents home. Turned out to be an
intermittent neutral connection at the power pole. When it opened (wind
related), the voltage on the two 110v halves of the 220v feed would go up
or down depending on the load on each circuit. In affect, the two circuits
were temporarily wired in series as a voltage divider. Dad happened to spot
the arcing at the pole during a storm. The electrician tightened the
connecton, and no more blown bulbs.

Makes perfect sense. What puzzles me is that apparently no-one has noticed the
light level from incandescent lamps fluctuating under these conditions.

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for all the advice. Very helpful. I didn't mention it but we
do frequently have lights momentarily dimming in the house when it is
windy or raining. No lights flaring that I've noticed. Our previous
house did this as well so I didn't think it was unusual.

I called the our power company (PECO) and they were very accommodating.
They're sending out someone today to set up a line monitor. I'm going
to call another electrician in today as well to take a look. It sounds
like maybe the first one was a dud. At a minimum I now have a much
better list of questions to ask a second electrician.

Thanks for all the advice I (and my computers) appreciate it. Tim

 

[Ken Moffett]

Makes perfect sense. What puzzles me is that apparently no-one has
noticed the light level from incandescent lamps fluctuating under
these conditions.

Graham

Graham,

As I remember they just would see the bulb flash and go out, like you
normally see a buld burn out. Because of the wiring there, only two
rooms were affected. and they didn't always blow bulbs at the same
time. This was a 100 year old farm house and the wiring wasn't up to
today,s codes.

 

[Eric R Snow]

Several years ago I lived in a neighborhood with one of the first
underground power transmission systems installed in the USA. Some
problems occurred. Once one leg of the 220 coming into the house
fluctuated wildly. I called Puget Power and they said I must be wrong,
that it was my house wiring. I insisted that it was bad power and they
relented and put a recording device on the incoming power. Sure enough
I was right and it ended up that the insulation had been leaking
around one of the wires in the transformer enclosure. Puget Power was
skeptical about the bad power because none of the other three homes
connected to this transformer had complained. But when they were
fixing the problem a woman came out and asked what was going on. When
told she said: "So that's why the lights have bee flickering!".
ERS

 

[John Larkin]

Thanks for all the advice. Very helpful. I didn't mention it but we
do frequently have lights momentarily dimming in the house when it is
windy or raining. No lights flaring that I've noticed. Our previous
house did this as well so I didn't think it was unusual.

I called the our power company (PECO) and they were very accommodating.
They're sending out someone today to set up a line monitor. I'm going
to call another electrician in today as well to take a look. It sounds
like maybe the first one was a dud. At a minimum I now have a much
better list of questions to ask a second electrician.

Thanks for all the advice I (and my computers) appreciate it. Tim

As JP mentioned, a bad neutral connection can be really nasty. In my
old house, we had an intermittent neutral on a power pole across the
street, and one AC phase would occasionally measure as high as 145.

John

 

[[email protected]]

Hi all,

Some of my electronic equipment was damaged by what was previously an
unknown cause. Also, lights flickered intermittently in the house quite
often. I asked my roommate about it and she said there is a temporary
power connection at the weatherhead. She said that the homeowner has a
electrical contractors license and hooked up the power after adding
onto the house. I called PG+E to look at it. They said it was the
worst they had ever seen. The neutral was poorly connected. They fixed
it and submitted a ticket for a new service install, even though they
said the homeowner is normally required to submit a ticket and pay the
cost of the service. The PG+E tech went the extra mile. So, my question
is this: Is the homeowner responsible for the damage caused to my
property? And, what if other electronic equipment suffered damage that
is not yet apparent but may show up in the future? I want to be
diplomatic about this because I like my living situation. Does anyone
have any wisdom on this issue? Thanks.

-Jeremy