Ground tester or Hypot with 1/0 welding cable?

[Ignoramus30170]

I have two devices that left me completely stumped. They are
Associated Research made devices. One seems to be a high voltage hypot
tester. Another has 1/0 welding cable attached to it. At least one is
called HyJoule.

Anyway, I am lost as to just what could be tested with a 1/0 welding
cable (about 100 ft or so).

They are both the size of a under the desk refrigerator and VERY
heavy, maybe 200-300 lbs each.


i

 

[martin griffith]

I have two devices that left me completely stumped. They are
Associated Research made devices. One seems to be a high voltage hypot
tester. Another has 1/0 welding cable attached to it. At least one is
called HyJoule.

Anyway, I am lost as to just what could be tested with a 1/0 welding
cable (about 100 ft or so).

They are both the size of a under the desk refrigerator and VERY
heavy, maybe 200-300 lbs each.


i

sell it on ebay as audiophool speaker cable


martin

 

[M Berger]

Possibly for insulation breakdown testing.

 

[Ignoramus30170]

sell it on ebay as audiophool speaker cable

actually... welding cable is the easiest thing to sell on ebay...

i

 

[Ignoramus30170]

Possibly for insulation breakdown testing.

But what about the welding cable. Why would it be needed. yes, the 30
kV machine is for insulation, but what abonut the one with welding
cable attached.

i

 

[[email protected]]

I have two devices that left me completely stumped. They are
Associated Research made devices. One seems to be a high voltage hypot
tester. Another has 1/0 welding cable attached to it. At least one is
called HyJoule.

Anyway, I am lost as to just what could be tested with a 1/0 welding
cable (about 100 ft or so).

They are both the size of a under the desk refrigerator and VERY
heavy, maybe 200-300 lbs each.


i

HyPot tester tests insulation resistance/breakdown, the joule-o-matic
tester passes a high current through a safety device to make sure it
actually passes the current properly.

Think like testing a surge protecter. The current (actually energy,
therefore joules) rating on reg. surge protected outlet strips are
pretty good.

lots of stuff has to pass hi-pot testing before it goes out the door,
I've never seen something that had to have the currrent test.

Dave

Dave

 

[[email protected]]

I have two devices that left me completely stumped. They are
Associated Research made devices. One seems to be a high voltage hypot
tester. Another has 1/0 welding cable attached to it. At least one is
called HyJoule.

Anyway, I am lost as to just what could be tested with a 1/0 welding
cable (about 100 ft or so).

They are both the size of a under the desk refrigerator and VERY
heavy, maybe 200-300 lbs each.


i

Think HV switch gear, like a substation. My dad helped build an
electric foundry, they had to do extensive tests on all the incoming
hookups. Big switch gear takes big test equipment.

Stan

 

[Ignoramus30170]

Think HV switch gear, like a substation. My dad helped build an
electric foundry, they had to do extensive tests on all the incoming
hookups. Big switch gear takes big test equipment.

Stan

Stan, good idea. I think that I understand now, the device with the
welding cable is a device for testing circuit breakers.

i

 

[Ignoramus30170]

I cannot conceive of why the hipot tester would
need anything bigger than say 12 gauge cable.
The unit should limit current to the milliampere
range.

I've never heard of a Hyjoule but now you have
me curious.


Now I'm confused again. My hipot tester isn't
light, but is nowhere near that big. It's about
30 lbs in a 4U rackmount.

You might have some heavy duty mil-spec or
utility company stuff I've never heard of.
Probably not much demand for it on the civilian
market.

It is one of those "major government laboratory" surplus mystery
items. I thought I was bidding on one 30 lbs thing, but got two 300
lbs things when I came in.

i

 

[Ignoramus30170]

Stan, good idea. I think that I understand now, the device with the
welding cable is a device for testing circuit breakers.

That was wrong. after some research and thinking, here's what I think.

1. The high voltage device is both a hipot tester (delivering a little
bit of high voltage to test withstand voltages on insulation), as well
as a "thumper". A "thumper" is a machine with big high voltage
capacitors that delivers a pulse of high voltage energy to whatever. A
similar (but bigger) machine can be seen here:

http://www.hipotronics.com/fieldtest/fldtst13.htm

2. The low voltage device with 1/0 welding cable is a ground bond tester
that tests ground bond by exposing it to a huge current.

3. The thumper can possibly be used to compress beer cans and make
mini lightnings.

I will post an update if I find the above to be wrong.

i

 

[[email protected]]

Just wait until one of your surprise purchases turns out to be a unit
that test military aircraft for EMP survivability!

Paul

 

[Ignoramus30170]

Just wait until one of your surprise purchases turns out to be a unit
that test military aircraft for EMP survivability!

Well, if the thumper is what I think it is, it could be used to
generate modest level EMPs.

i

 

[colin]

That was wrong. after some research and thinking, here's what I think.

1. The high voltage device is both a hipot tester (delivering a little
bit of high voltage to test withstand voltages on insulation), as well
as a "thumper". A "thumper" is a machine with big high voltage
capacitors that delivers a pulse of high voltage energy to whatever. A
similar (but bigger) machine can be seen here:

http://www.hipotronics.com/fieldtest/fldtst13.htm

2. The low voltage device with 1/0 welding cable is a ground bond tester
that tests ground bond by exposing it to a huge current.

3. The thumper can possibly be used to compress beer cans and make
mini lightnings.

I will post an update if I find the above to be wrong.

You can find the location of a short in one of those realy big power cables
by laying it out and covering it with sand
then thumping it with a lot of current, the current cuases the cable to jump
and throw the sand up,
where the sand stops being thrown up is the location of the fualt.

Colin =^.^=

 

[Rich Grise]

But what about the welding cable. Why would it be needed. yes, the 30
kV machine is for insulation, but what abonut the one with welding
cable attached.

Was that the one named "HyJoule"? It could be some kind of high-current
energy tolerance tester - "high joule" implies a lot of energy; maybe
it's kinda like a Hypot for current or something.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[[email protected]]

Ott to make a good spot welder...

 

[[email protected]]

lots of stuff has to pass hi-pot testing before it goes out the door,
I've never seen something that had to have the currrent test.

Maybe you have seen it; a 200 kAmp lightning strike simulator is
part of the final checkout on big aircraft designs, I'm told.

 

[Martin H. Eastburn]

HyJoule is high energy - thus needing the welding cable. Likely dumps
large caps down the cables to test switches and relays... Special test requirements.

HyPot is high voltage and tests insulation of wire. Might be 20KV or more - likely 200K.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/

 

[Johnno]

I have two devices that left me completely stumped. They are
Associated Research made devices. One seems to be a high voltage hypot
tester. Another has 1/0 welding cable attached to it. At least one is
called HyJoule.

Anyway, I am lost as to just what could be tested with a 1/0 welding
cable (about 100 ft or so).

They are both the size of a under the desk refrigerator and VERY
heavy, maybe 200-300 lbs each.


i

Hi Ig,

I've used gear like this on high voltage cable fault location. From your
limited description, I can't tell you exactly what you have there, but I can
tell you the sort of gear used on high voltage cable faults.

Testing a new or repaired cable needs high voltage DC , not much current
required, typically milliamps once the cable is charged.

When you are trying to locate a fault, you need some way to get a primary
location. This can be an impulse current reflection measuring device which
shows you a picture of the wave as a hv capacitor is dicharged into the
fault. Typically, you do this down a good core, then to the faulty core and
compare to see where the waves deviate.

An older method involved a high voltage bridge, and sometimes this required
a very heavy cable to connect the far end of a good core to the far end of
the faulty core. We have a cable that is like what you describe for a
particlarly strange setup in one of our substations.

Once you have a primary location, you go to that point on the cable and
listen for the fault with senstive listening equipment while the the
capacitor is discharged repeatedly into the fault.

When the cable is buried under a city street, it can be quite difficult to
hear the fault. It can also happen that the original fault was cleared so
quickly that the outer sheath of the cable is still intact. This means that
the noise is inside a lead pipe, and even if you can hear it, you can't
pinpoint the exact position of the fault. The answer is to discharge a very
large capacitor - high joule - into the cable, the resulting high energy
burns the cable down and makes the fault easier to find. I think the second
box you have is a burn down unit.

Both these units you have will kill you as quick as look at you. Even if
they have not been used in a while, if the capacitors were not dicharged and
earthed properly, they will bite. Be careful !

regards,

John

 

[Ignoramus30897]

Was that the one named "HyJoule"? It could be some kind of high-current
energy tolerance tester - "high joule" implies a lot of energy; maybe
it's kinda like a Hypot for current or something.

I took half of it off my truck last night. (it comes in two pieces).

It has about 200 feet of 1/0 welding cable. One 100 ft piece and more
smaller pieces, with weird connectors. The use of this cable is to
securely ground this set, as it is apparently unsafe when not
grounded.

One cabinet is the high voltage power supply, going up to 20 kV DC.
It has a twistlock 120V plug, I am not sure what is the amp rating on
this machine.

The other cabinet (still in my truck) is the THUMPER unit, that is, a
big capacitor and means to discharge it into the object being tested.

There is at least one HV cable that goes from thumper to power supply
(to charge the caps in thumper). and a long HV cable that, I think,
connects to the cable being tested for faults.

Associated research no longer supports this unit, has no manuals and
no old people to remember anything about it. Another victim of
corporate buyouts, outsourcings, downsizings etc.

I will try to find out what is the power rating.

I will try to test it the following way:

- ground the unit securely to my house grounding rod

- run it off the generator to prevent interference with the house
electrical system

- Connect leads of THUMPER to some thin wire, like 18 gauge wire, so
that it would safely explode when THUMPED.

i

 

[Ignoramus30897]

I've used gear like this on high voltage cable fault location. From your
limited description, I can't tell you exactly what you have there, but I can
tell you the sort of gear used on high voltage cable faults.

Makes sense.

Testing a new or repaired cable needs high voltage DC , not much current
required, typically milliamps once the cable is charged.

When you are trying to locate a fault, you need some way to get a primary
location. This can be an impulse current reflection measuring device which
shows you a picture of the wave as a hv capacitor is dicharged into the
fault. Typically, you do this down a good core, then to the faulty core and
compare to see where the waves deviate.

An older method involved a high voltage bridge, and sometimes this required
a very heavy cable to connect the far end of a good core to the far end of
the faulty core. We have a cable that is like what you describe for a
particlarly strange setup in one of our substations.

Once you have a primary location, you go to that point on the cable and
listen for the fault with senstive listening equipment while the the
capacitor is discharged repeatedly into the fault.

When the cable is buried under a city street, it can be quite difficult to
hear the fault. It can also happen that the original fault was cleared so
quickly that the outer sheath of the cable is still intact. This means that
the noise is inside a lead pipe, and even if you can hear it, you can't
pinpoint the exact position of the fault. The answer is to discharge a very
large capacitor - high joule - into the cable, the resulting high energy
burns the cable down and makes the fault easier to find. I think the second
box you have is a burn down unit.

Both these units you have will kill you as quick as look at you. Even if
they have not been used in a while, if the capacitors were not dicharged and
earthed properly, they will bite. Be careful !

Thanks John... I will definitely try to be careful...

i