Methane Gas Production

[[email protected]]

In past mother earth news articles, I have read about whole farms
being run on methane gas produced by the fermentation of cattle
manure. While this is a large demand for energy, it occured to me
that most everyone in the country has the potential of producing their
own methane on a much more modest scale. However, I am completely
uninformed about the processes that occur in a septic tank system and
can only assume they are similar to those used to produce methane.
Does anyone here know if they are the same process and if there is a
way to safely extract the gas from a typical septic system? If so, I
would be interested in details or an appropriate URL. TIA

 

[SQLit]

In past mother earth news articles, I have read about whole farms
being run on methane gas produced by the fermentation of cattle
manure. While this is a large demand for energy, it occured to me
that most everyone in the country has the potential of producing their
own methane on a much more modest scale. However, I am completely
uninformed about the processes that occur in a septic tank system and
can only assume they are similar to those used to produce methane.
Does anyone here know if they are the same process and if there is a
way to safely extract the gas from a typical septic system? If so, I
would be interested in details or an appropriate URL. TIA

Chicken poop is the best. People is by far the worst. No wonder Waste Water
Treatment Plants burn it off. Methane can not be compressed very well and
it does not have the BTU's like natural and propane gases. Methane is also
very corrosive. I have seen a digester from a chicken farm that was off
grid, they used 1/2 diesel and 1/2 methane for fuel. Had to start the
generator on diesel and then convert it over. Shut down was the same.

Some WWTP are now beginning to use the gas for internal processes. Visit
your local WWTP and ask for a tour, they will be upfront about the uses and
why.

 

[daestrom]

Chicken poop is the best. People is by far the worst. No wonder Waste Water
Treatment Plants burn it off. Methane can not be compressed very well and
it does not have the BTU's like natural and propane gases. Methane is also
very corrosive.

Well, NQR (not quite right). Natural gas is almost pure methane. It is
compressed on a commercial scale and even liquified for ocean transport. It
is not very corrosive in its pure form.

But the 'gas' coming from a digester is *not* pure methane. Several
contaminants are in it (which is why it smells). CO2, some sulphur
compounds and water vapor are the 'biggies' but there can be a host of
others. The CO2 and SOx can form acids that *are* very corrosive. And the
high moisture content gives it poor heating value. So such digester gas
usually has to be 'processed' a bit before use. Drying using dessicant beds
and removal of CO2 and SOx also have to be done unless you're piping it
straight into an engine.

And yes, different animal's manure have differing compositions resulting in
different 'grades' of output.

daestrom

 

[Ray Drouillard]

Waste is

Well, NQR (not quite right). Natural gas is almost pure methane. It is
compressed on a commercial scale and even liquified for ocean transport. It
is not very corrosive in its pure form.

But the 'gas' coming from a digester is *not* pure methane. Several
contaminants are in it (which is why it smells). CO2, some sulphur
compounds and water vapor are the 'biggies' but there can be a host of
others. The CO2 and SOx can form acids that *are* very corrosive. And the
high moisture content gives it poor heating value. So such digester gas
usually has to be 'processed' a bit before use. Drying using dessicant beds
and removal of CO2 and SOx also have to be done unless you're piping it
straight into an engine.

And yes, different animal's manure have differing compositions resulting in
different 'grades' of output.

daestrom

Where can I find plans and design notes for digesters?



Ray

 

[bw]

Chicken poop is the best. People is by far the worst. No wonder Waste Water
Treatment Plants burn it off. Methane can not be compressed very well and
it does not have the BTU's like natural and propane gases. Methane is also
very corrosive. I have seen a digester from a chicken farm that was off
grid, they used 1/2 diesel and 1/2 methane for fuel. Had to start the
generator on diesel and then convert it over. Shut down was the same.

Some WWTP are now beginning to use the gas for internal processes. Visit
your local WWTP and ask for a tour, they will be upfront about the uses and
why.

Natural gas is 98 percent methane. Methane is not corrosive.

 

[Vaughn]

Where can I find plans and design notes for digesters?

Back issues of Mother Earth News, which I seem to recall seeing on sale
in bound format. May be available somewhere on the Internet.

Vaughn

 

[Harry Chickpea]

Where can I find plans and design notes for digesters?

Start at:
http://www.ees.adelaide.edu.au/pharris/biogas/beginners.html

or:

http://www.panasia.org.sg/nepalnet/crt/biogas.htm

 

[Winston]

(Snip)

Where can I find plans and design notes for digesters?

Here is a start, Ray.

<http://www.motherearthnews.com/menarch/archive/search.asp?search=methane&type=1&page=>

--Winston

 

[[email protected]]

Some great links, thanks for the inputs. So, human manure is not a
good option, but what about Pine wastes from timbering. I have a 26
acre pine tree farm, and there is a lot of old timber lying around
from when the land was treed before I purchased it. Much of is is
very soft and easily pulvarized. Currently is it a nuisance and it
would be great to convert it to something useful. While I presume
there would be a lot less potential in the wood, I do nonetheless,
have massive quantities available. I can say that driving past paper
factories one can easily detect fermentation in process by the smell.
Any thoughts on this alternative? TIA again.

 

[Harry Chickpea]

Some great links, thanks for the inputs. So, human manure is not a
good option, but what about Pine wastes from timbering. I have a 26
acre pine tree farm, and there is a lot of old timber lying around
from when the land was treed before I purchased it. Much of is is
very soft and easily pulvarized. Currently is it a nuisance and it
would be great to convert it to something useful. While I presume
there would be a lot less potential in the wood, I do nonetheless,
have massive quantities available. I can say that driving past paper
factories one can easily detect fermentation in process by the smell.
Any thoughts on this alternative? TIA again.

There is insufficient nitrogen for practical methane production in just plain
wood waste. If fresh, consider piling it in a heap to compost and then using
the heat from the interior of the compost pile. However, if it is already soft
it is probably well broken down and best left to enrich the soil. I'm guessing
you are talking about slash, branches, and maybe some leaves.

BTW, Word of warning - if you decide to try and chip this stuff use a good mask
or respirator. There are some nasty fungi that grow in it and can cause
ongoing lung problems. Left to rot naturally they don't do much, but chippers
turn them into clouds of fungus and spores. I once made the error of trying to
chip some coarse mulch to a finer grade and was laid up for over a month.

 

[[email protected]]

There is insufficient nitrogen for practical methane production in just plain
wood waste. If fresh, consider piling it in a heap to compost and then using
the heat from the interior of the compost pile. However, if it is already soft
it is probably well broken down and best left to enrich the soil. I'm guessing
you are talking about slash, branches, and maybe some leaves.

BTW, Word of warning - if you decide to try and chip this stuff use a good mask
or respirator. There are some nasty fungi that grow in it and can cause
ongoing lung problems. Left to rot naturally they don't do much, but chippers
turn them into clouds of fungus and spores. I once made the error of trying to
chip some coarse mulch to a finer grade and was laid up for over a month.

Forewarned, fore armed.. thank you very much for that input. Indeed,
much of the wood is very soft, and with that information, I will allow
it to return to the soil. I presume that fresher materials are fair
game for burning or mulching. Now.. If I could just find a good cheap
steam or stirling generator.

 

[Steve Spence]

http://www.methane-gas.com/

http://www.motherearthnews.com/menarch/archive/issues/018/018-006-01.htm
http://www.motherearthnews.com/menarch/archive/

http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/renew/biomass/bioch_en/anaerob/anaerobic_projects.html




--
Steve Spence
Renewable energy and sustainable living
http://www.green-trust.org
Donate $30 or more to Green Trust, and receive
a copy of Joshua Tickell's "From the Fryer to
the Fuel Tank", the premier documentary of
biodiesel and vegetable oil powered diesels.

 

[Big Foot]

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:41:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

One of the things they did during the piece was to take the farmer's
methane Woseley car out to the gas charging station by the barn and
load it up with methane for the trip into the pub. There they were,
the farmer, Morley and his cameraman in the back seat, riding into
town at no expense other than a little labour.

I still remember that show, 40 years later.....(c;



Larry W4CSC

Did they show how he was able to compress the gas into a tank for use
in his car? Is there a Home/owner/user way to do this?

 

[Harry Chickpea]

Back in the 60's, Morley Safer on CBS's 60 Minutes, did a piece about
an English chicken farmer who uses only lube oil from the oil
industry. His entire operation and home run on the methane his
chickenshit cookers out behind his barn provided. They were quite
large, as I remember.

One of the things they did during the piece was to take the farmer's
methane Woseley car out to the gas charging station by the barn and
load it up with methane for the trip into the pub. There they were,
the farmer, Morley and his cameraman in the back seat, riding into
town at no expense other than a little labour.

I still remember that show, 40 years later.....(c;

You're thinking of Harold Bate:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_bate.html

He was listed in the Last Whole Earth Catalog. I bought his conversion kit way
back then. It consisted of a vacuum demand gas valve and a threaded jet to
insert into the carburetor. As remember, he had a compressor on his farm for
the gas.

 

[Steve Spence]

http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2000/biofuel/batesmethane.htm

It was a Hillman.

--
Steve Spence
Renewable energy and sustainable living
http://www.green-trust.org
Donate $30 or more to Green Trust, and receive
a copy of Joshua Tickell's "From the Fryer to
the Fuel Tank", the premier documentary of
biodiesel and vegetable oil powered diesels.

 

[[email protected]]

http://www.pioneer.net/~carlich/

A Most excellent URL.. Thank you very much!

 

[Ray Drouillard]

Did they show how he was able to compress the gas into a tank for use
in his car? Is there a Home/owner/user way to do this?

Back then, I suspect that he used a compressor that is designed to fill
scuba tanks. Now, you can order one ready-made for the purpose. It
even has the correct hoses and fittings for filling cars.

Look up CNG cars, compressed natural gas, and other similar things in
google and you'll find a few sites with suppliers. There is one that
sells conversion kits for gasoline and diesel engines, compressor
systems, storage tanks, and the like.

If you want to do it yourself, you'll have to come up with a two stage
compressor that will handle 2000-3000 PSI (depending on how much you
want to cram into a bottle).


Ray Drouillard

 

[Steve Spence]

keep track of how much energy it takes to compress that gas. We have found
it more practical to use the gas at point of generation in a stationary
engine or boiler to provide heat and hot water for farm processes.


--
Steve Spence
Renewable energy and sustainable living
http://www.green-trust.org
Donate $30 or more to Green Trust, and receive
a copy of Joshua Tickell's "From the Fryer to
the Fuel Tank", the premier documentary of
biodiesel and vegetable oil powered diesels.

 

[Big Foot]

Back then, I suspect that he used a compressor that is designed to fill
scuba tanks. Now, you can order one ready-made for the purpose. It
even has the correct hoses and fittings for filling cars.

Look up CNG cars, compressed natural gas, and other similar things in
google and you'll find a few sites with suppliers. There is one that
sells conversion kits for gasoline and diesel engines, compressor
systems, storage tanks, and the like.

If you want to do it yourself, you'll have to come up with a two stage
compressor that will handle 2000-3000 PSI (depending on how much you
want to cram into a bottle).


Ray Drouillard

Thanks for the Info Ray those are great tips.

 

[Big Foot]

keep track of how much energy it takes to compress that gas. We have found
it more practical to use the gas at point of generation in a stationary
engine or boiler to provide heat and hot water for farm processes.

Steve
The application I'm thinking of involves having a free natural gas
well on the property. The place already utilizes the gas for heat ,
hot water and cooking. I had looked before but the only nat gas
compressors I saw were too big and costly.