No dial tone, but DSL works

[Roy Starrin]

Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. Verizon is of little/no
help, except to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall. My understanding of this phenomenon
is that since it is digital, it is duplex over one wire and that is
why it is still working


Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
above remain unchanged
2. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.


Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
Trapped a couple of VZ repair folks in their truck this morning. They
said that given the circumstances, there is probably a short in a line
between the C.O. and the NID.

 

[Impmon]

3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall. My understanding of this phenomenon
is that since it is digital, it is duplex over one wire and that is
why it is still working

This is how DSL works: line phones simply uses analog portion of the
phone line up to 4KHz. It is fine for normal conversation and has
been this way since telephone use started almost a century ago. There
is still a limit to voltage level in USA and it's why dialup modem are
limited to 53k. dialup can't go any faster while using the bottom
4KHz portion of the phone line.

DSL gets around the FCC regs by using the phone line at higher than
4KHz. As long as the filters are in place, existing phones will
continue to work below 4KHz and DSL using the bandwidth above 4KHz.
All of this while using only 2 wires from nearby switch box or
whatever to your house.

Since your DSL is working, the land phone line is probably fine. The
problem could be with the switch box, somewhere after it separates the
DSL signals and analog signals and routes them. Or the phones you
have isn't working. As I'm not an expert in phone system, either
someone else here can figure out your problem or you may have to wait
till Friday for the techies to check your telephone out.

 

[Roy Starrin]

Since your DSL is working, the land phone line is probably fine. The
problem could be with the switch box, somewhere after it separates the
DSL signals and analog signals and routes them. Or the phones you
have isn't working. As I'm not an expert in phone system, either
someone else here can figure out your problem or you may have to wait
till Friday for the techies to check your telephone out.

Thank you for you input.

Interestingly, the problem went away, announced by a computerized
phone call at 5 p.m. yesterday. I tend to go with the person who
suggested to me separately; "It is probably a short, but don't be
surprized if it suddenly goes away and everyone stands around looking
sheepish while no one admits to having fixed anything."
It cleared up after, per the instructions in the phone book, I emailed
their consumer complaint folks and told them that having no 911 for 5
days was totally unsat, and the next email was going to the SCC, just
as they provide for in the book.
I also stopped by the C.O. yesterday and talked to techs who were
sitting outside in their trucks: They told me that DSL will live with
one wire, and that it probably was a short.
I found that calling them is a farce - especially when you have no
phone. In my initial trouble call I discussed with the "agent" at
great length all I had done to I.D. that the problem was outside my
premises. When I finally found out how to handle the situation on
line therough their repair page, I called up the report, and it
contained the following: No dial tone
This morning, that same page still contains the same information, with
an ETR of 1800 Friday the 18th, in spite of my having updated it and
their acknowledgment that they got the update. And the repair history
indicates that no repairs have been associated with my number for the
past 14 days.

 

[DeserTBoB]

3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall. My understanding of this phenomenon
is that since it is digital, it is duplex over one wire and that is
why it is still working <snip>

Your modem has crapped out. If the tip of the subscriber loop were
open, you'd have no ADSL. If you cannot draw dial tone, there's
something local in your setup that's cooked.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
Trapped a couple of VZ repair folks in their truck this morning. They
said that given the circumstances, there is probably a short in a line
between the C.O. and the NID. <snip>

Do you see -48 VDC on the tip and ground on the ring? What do you
hear from the telset when you go off-hook? Did you plug your telset
directly into the RJ-11, bypassing the ADSL stuff? These are very,
very, very basic telephony tests that should be done whenever a line's
in trouble.

And yes, I have over 25 years experience in the US telephone industry.
"Tip 'n ringing" with POTS phone lines is a little below my level,
having been mostly in long haul analog coaxial cables systems,
terrestrial microwave and C-band common carrier satellite, both DOMSAT
and INTELSAT.

 

[DeserTBoB]

Interestingly, the problem went away<snip>

Trouble coding: CCWH...."Came clear while hoping"

It cleared up after, per the instructions in the phone book, I emailed
their consumer complaint folks and told them that having no 911 for 5
days was totally unsat, and the next email was going to the SCC, just
as they provide for in the book. <snip>

HAHAHAHA! Welcome to the wonderful world of "deregulation." They
couldn't give a crap less whether you're happy or not, or if you have
911 service, or anything else...just pay their bill on time.
Deregulation has taken any responsiblity for good service off the
backs of the corporate idiots now running the US telecom market, and
makes it a "hey, you take what we give you" proposition...exactly what
it was before stringent regulation came to bear in the 1930s.

I found that calling them is a farce - especially when you have no
phone. In my initial trouble call I discussed with the "agent" at
great length all I had done to I.D. that the problem was outside my
premises. When I finally found out how to handle the situation on
line therough their repair page, I called up the report, and it
contained the following: No dial tone
This morning, that same page still contains the same information, with
an ETR of 1800 Friday the 18th, in spite of my having updated it and
their acknowledgment that they got the update. And the repair history
indicates that no repairs have been associated with my number for the
past 14 days. <snip>

Probably an intermittant at a pedestal or something else. Nothing is
maintained anymore, so nothing would surprise me. One pedestal on the
feeder that feeds my area is laying out on the ground, having been run
over by a county motor grader. VZ came out and wrapped it in duct
tape...that's the repair.

Do NOT ever support any more "telecom deregulation" bills. If you do
and they pass, service WILL get worse than it already is.

 

[Impmon]

Do NOT ever support any more "telecom deregulation" bills. If you do
and they pass, service WILL get worse than it already is.

Then we'd have to wait for a lawsuit to get the companies back on
their toe. I wonder how much a lawsuit could cost if it can be proven
the telephone company knew of the problem and didn't fix it for so
long, preventing someone from calling 911 and a person or 2 died in
the process.

Greedy lawyer + sympathic juries = lawsuit with 7 or 8 zero's after a
number.

 

[Don Bowey]

Your modem has crapped out. If the tip of the subscriber loop were
open, you'd have no ADSL. If you cannot draw dial tone, there's
something local in your setup that's cooked.


Do you see -48 VDC on the tip and ground on the ring? What do you
hear from the telset when you go off-hook? Did you plug your telset
directly into the RJ-11, bypassing the ADSL stuff? These are very,
very, very basic telephony tests that should be done whenever a line's
in trouble.

And yes, I have over 25 years experience in the US telephone industry.
"Tip 'n ringing" with POTS phone lines is a little below my level,
having been mostly in long haul analog coaxial cables systems,
terrestrial microwave and C-band common carrier satellite, both DOMSAT
and INTELSAT.

Now that you have postured yourself so well, perhaps you would like to learn
something you missed in those 25 years....... Negative voltage is typically
placed on the Ring wire, and is referenced to a Central Office "ground" on
the Tip.

Don

 

[Smiles]

Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. Verizon is of little/no
help, except to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall. My understanding of this phenomenon
is that since it is digital, it is duplex over one wire and that is
why it is still working


Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
above remain unchanged
2. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.


Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
Trapped a couple of VZ repair folks in their truck this morning. They
said that given the circumstances, there is probably a short in a line
between the C.O. and the NID.

well your modem is fine your DSL connection is fine
BUT your pots or basic phone line has a break in it call your local
phone company or send them an email to have them look at it