Relocate Telco NID-newbie

[Jgrimms]

I would like to relocate my telco's NID to my home network/security enclosure
inside my house. I have read on this Group that splicing the telco's main drop
is a no-no. Is there a good way of extending the drop to reach my home-run
enclosure? Also, any recommendations on good NID boxes?

Thanks,

J. Grimms

 

[Crash Gordon]

Some providers get really pissy if you mess with their side of it...call
your's and tell them what you want to do. They're also connected to the main
electric ground bond of the house...so ask...maybe they'll move it for you.

We move them a lot if they are on the garage side of the house, we just move
them to the inside wall.


|I would like to relocate my telco's NID to my home network/security
enclosure
| inside my house. I have read on this Group that splicing the telco's main
drop
| is a no-no. Is there a good way of extending the drop to reach my
home-run
| enclosure? Also, any recommendations on good NID boxes?
|
| Thanks,
|
| J. Grimms
|
|
| --
| NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
|

 

[jgrimms]

Some providers get really pissy if you mess with their side of it...call

your's and tell them what you want to do. They're also connected to the main
electric ground bond of the house...so ask...maybe they'll move it for you.

Technically then, from a signal standpoint, I would be OK to extend their drop,
I just might get in hot water with my telco.? BTW, they won't touch anything
without me paying dearly for it (unless I have no signal.) I called about
getting my NID updated (mine must be from the 70's) and they said I would need
to put in a work-order, not a repair-order and pay $35/1st 15 minutes and
$12/per 15 thereafter + hardware to have the work done.

This lead me to my search for good NID enclosures (anyone heard of
http://suttleonline.com ?)

J. Grimms

 

[alarman]

Technically then, from a signal standpoint, I would be OK to extend their
drop,
I just might get in hot water with my telco.? BTW, they won't touch
anything
without me paying dearly for it (unless I have no signal.) I called about
getting my NID updated (mine must be from the 70's) and they said I would
need
to put in a work-order, not a repair-order and pay $35/1st 15 minutes and
$12/per 15 thereafter + hardware to have the work done.

$35 to show up and $48/hour? Sounds reasonable to me. Why not let them move
it for you?
js

 

[jgrimms]

$35 to show up and $48/hour? Sounds reasonable to me. Why not let them move
it for you?
js

I agree with you that the rate in and of itself is not bad. However, moving the
NID indoors to my homerun requires crawling 60ft. one way under my house and I
doubt I can convince any Phone Tech./Co. that this is a good idea, not to
mention the moving the NID inside at all. Also, as we are all looking for extra
security in this forum, would they be willing to run it in metal conduit the way
I want? I doubt it.

To reiterate, it sounds like it's technically sound to extend the drop and I
would welcome any recommendations on a good NID enclosure.
TIA

JG

 

[Robert L Bass]

Technically then, from a signal standpoint,

I would be OK to extend their drop, I just
might get in hot water with my telco.?

Don't extend the drop cable. That's a no-no, too. Instead, if it's an
aerial drop, lower the strain relief by a foot or two and move the NID
inside. As another poster already mentioned, the NID should be grounded to
the main electrical ground rod of the building. Make sure you reconnect the
ground properly. Note: Don't splice the ground cable. If you need a longer
run, use a new cable. #12 copper with a green jacket is the usual stuff.

BTW, they won't touch anything without me
paying dearly for it (unless I have no signal.)

That's how it is here in Florida and where I worked in Connecticut for 24
years. I always moved the NID's myself and never had any problems with the
telco. Their techs sometimes whine about it but they never do anything
about it (though technically they do have the right to make you pay for them
to fix it if you screw it up). They won't cancel service -- you're worth
more money to them as a customer than as one more ex-client using VoIP. :^)

I called about getting my NID updated (mine
must be from the 70's) and they said I would
need to put in a work-order, not a repair-order
and pay $35/1st 15 minutes and $12/per 15
thereafter + hardware to have the work done.

The last time I checked on a customer's behalf in CT was something like 10
years ago. At the time the telco (an outfit called SNET) was charging a
flat fee of $100 to move the thing. It was usually a 20 minute job.

This lead me to my search for good NID enclosures (anyone heard of
http://suttleonline.com ?)

Suttle is one of the top makers of telco connection and outside plant
equipment. Here's their page on NID stuff, etc.
http://suttleonline.com/trad_nwifcdev.html

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[alarman]

I agree with you that the rate in and of itself is not bad. However,
moving the
NID indoors to my homerun requires crawling 60ft. one way under my house
and I
doubt I can convince any Phone Tech./Co. that this is a good idea, not to
mention the moving the NID inside at all. Also, as we are all looking for
extra
security in this forum, would they be willing to run it in metal conduit
the way
I want? I doubt it.

To reiterate, it sounds like it's technically sound to extend the drop and
I
would welcome any recommendations on a good NID enclosure.

I have used standard rain-tight junction boxes for that, they come in many
sizes and aren't too expensive. Add some conduit to protect the drop, and a
tamper on the cover. Not totally secure, but a pretty good start.
js

 

[Nomen Nescio]

jgrimms said:

I agree with you that the rate in and of itself is not bad. However,
moving the NID indoors to my homerun requires crawling 60ft. one way
under my house and I doubt I can convince any Phone Tech./Co. that this
is a good idea, not to mention the moving the NID inside at all. Also, as
we are all looking for extra security in this forum, would they be willing to
run it in metal conduit the way I want? I doubt it.

I think you may have misunderstood something. You do not need to move the
NID next to your alarm panel. If you want to move it indoors, you can put
it at any convenient location and run a two-pair cable from it to your
alarm panel.

Strictly speaking, you are not supposed to touch the NID or the incoming
cable, but you know that already. It violates tariffs, and your telco may
not like it. One thing to remember is that if you move it inside, telco
repair will be unable to test the line completely unless you are at home to
meet them; this is why they like to put it outdoors. If you forget this
detail and they send out a service tech, you're likely to get a bill.

- badenov

 

[jgrimms]

Don't extend the drop cable. That's a no-no, too. Instead, if it's an
aerial drop, lower the strain relief by a foot or two and move the NID
inside. As another poster already mentioned, the NID should be grounded to
the main electrical ground rod of the building. Make sure you reconnect the
ground properly. Note: Don't splice the ground cable. If you need a longer
run, use a new cable. #12 copper with a green jacket is the usual stuff........


Regards,
Robert L Bass

Alright, so no extending the drop. I guess I am out of luck then on relocating
the NID. It is currently mounted about 12" off the ground with no options for
recapturing slack in the drop to move it anywhere that makes sense.

That leaves me with upgrading the NID itself and securing the cables with
conduit. Thanks for the input and reinforcement regarding Suttle.

JG

 

[Crash Gordon]

Around these here parts, they don't charge for the upgrade from an old sni
to a new one.

Technically there's no reason it can't be relocated (remember the ground
bond though). Their main concern is probably that they would not have access
to it if you put it up in your attic or some inaccessable location.

Never heard of Suttle, but that's the kind of boxes we have around here.

I still think you should let your provider do the conversion.

| >Some providers get really pissy if you mess with their side of it...call
| >your's and tell them what you want to do. They're also connected to the
main
| >electric ground bond of the house...so ask...maybe they'll move it for
you.
|
| Technically then, from a signal standpoint, I would be OK to extend their
drop,
| I just might get in hot water with my telco.? BTW, they won't touch
anything
| without me paying dearly for it (unless I have no signal.) I called about
| getting my NID updated (mine must be from the 70's) and they said I would
need
| to put in a work-order, not a repair-order and pay $35/1st 15 minutes and
| $12/per 15 thereafter + hardware to have the work done.
|
| This lead me to my search for good NID enclosures (anyone heard of
| http://suttleonline.com ?)
|
| J. Grimms
|
|
| --
| NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
|
|

 

[Robert L Bass]

... One thing to remember is that if you move it

inside, telco repair will be unable to test the line
completely unless you are at home to meet them;
this is why they like to put it outdoors. If you
forget this detail and they send out a service tech,
you're likely to get a bill.

That is not correct. If they can't access it they'll leave a note (or not)
saying that they tried but came but you weren't home. Don't forget that the
vast majority of older homes still have the NID inside. When the telco
repair guy shows up if he can't get in they don't bill those folks either.
In my area if the phone is working at all they call before they come anyway.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

Alright, so no extending the drop. I guess I

am out of luck then on relocating the NID.
It is currently mounted about 12" off the
ground with no options for recapturing slack
in the drop to move it anywhere that makes
sense.

If it's an aerial drop you can still relocate it. Just bring the strain
relief down a coule of feet and move it inside the wall. As an anonymous
poster already mentioned, you don't need to put the NID at the alarm panel.
Just move it into the basement or crawl space and run an inside cable from
there to the RJ31X jack at the alarm box.

That leaves me with upgrading the NID itself
and securing the cables with conduit. Thanks
for the input and reinforcement regarding Suttle.

You can and should "harden" the line by running it through galvanized,
threaded pipe. Alternatively, you can use a product from C&C called a
VoiceLok. That's a heave gauge steel cabinet and cable protector designed
to bolt to the wall covering the NID and the aerial drop.

If the drop is underground (something the telco's curiously refer to as an
"underground aerial"), you can bring it into the basement below grade and
completely hide the whole affair.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[mikey]

If the drop is underground (something the telco's curiously refer to as an
"underground aerial"), you can bring it into the basement below grade and
completely hide the whole affair.

Drill from the outside angling upward or from the inside angling down.



*** ***

 

[Robert L Bass]

Drill from the outside angling upward or from the inside angling down.

Correct. That will help avoid water dripping in through the hole. I also
like to seal the hole with lots of RTV silicone.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>