The HELL MACHINE works!!! Was Ground tester or Hypot with 1/0 welding cable?

[Ignoramus7016]

This is in regards to a thumper that followed me home last week. A
thumper is a machine that makes high voltage capacitor discharges of
thousands of joules, to find faults in underground buried cable. Mine
is designed to deliver up to 4,062 joules, or approximately the energy
carried by bullets from a burst of assault rifle fire.

See

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/High-Voltage/Hell-Machine-THUMPER/

I thought that it was not working.

Today, a local luminary in the field of coin shrinking, Lichtenstein
figures, and other fun high voltage things visited me and my thumper
machine. I am not mentioning his name out of respect for his privacy,
and feel very highly about him.

Anyway.

After I dragged its two pieces into my garage, we looked at the
machine and opened up the covers. Some interesting things came to
light.

1. It was a 25 kV DC machine, with two contactors: a safety grounding
contactor to ground the caps when power is off, and the thumping
contactor to connect capacitors to output cable.

2.It has a variac for varying output voltage of the high voltage
transformer. The high voltage is rectified by a center tapped
rectifier (two diodes).

3. It has a limiter arrow on the voltage display that causes the
output contactor to close when capacitor voltage reaches the limiter.

4. It also has a DISCHARGE button that can cause the discharge
contactor to close at operator request.

5. My machine did not work because the limiter (whose purpose I did
not understand) was set to zero.

After he left, I wired up the machine and tried to use it. I made a
primitive spark gap out of two large copper pieces. As it turned out,
it works great. It charges the caps and when it reaches the preset
voltage, it discharges into a spark gap.I only tried it at up to 10
kV.

Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.

i

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

snip---

Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.

Shrink coins?

Explanation, please.

Harold

 

[Ignoramus7016]

snip---

Shrink coins?

Explanation, please.

See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page

http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html

He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
less.

The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.

i

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page

http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html

He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
less.

The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.

i

This was certainly impressive and informative. I find high current and high
voltage effects fascinating. The test sets I design will generate up to
about 100,000 amperes AC for several tenths of a second, but the only
effects I have seen are jumping cables and vibrating metal objects in the
magnetic field. Thanks for the informative link.

Paul

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page

http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html

He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
less.

Thanks for the link, although I'm somewhat a skeptic. I didn't read all
the information, so I may be bringing up a subject that was well addressed.
In my mind, the laws of physics dictate that metals will occupy a given
amount of space----a result of their atomic structure. In other words,
their specific weight isn't up for grabs, it's a constant. I'm having a
hard time imagining that coins shrink unless they lose weight in the
process, or one of the dimensions is increased. Are the coins thicker than
they were before being shrunk? Please bear in mind I'm not an educated
person------I was lucky to escape high school by graduating.

The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.

There are mechanical presses that are capable of delivering tonnage that
makes that look like nothing, and they don't have the ability to compress
metals, at least as I understand it. I am impressed with the power of the
thumper, but I still have my doubts about shrinking metals. with the
exception of my comments, above. Otherwise, seems to me you could duplicate
the specific gravity of gold that way. The way I understand it, you can do
that only by creating gold, or an alloy of other elements that, combined,
equaling the specific gravity (19.3. Platinum and something, for example).
Am I missing something?

Harold

 

[azotic]

Thanks for the link, although I'm somewhat a skeptic. I didn't read all
the information, so I may be bringing up a subject that was well
addressed.
In my mind, the laws of physics dictate that metals will occupy a given
amount of space----a result of their atomic structure. In other words,
their specific weight isn't up for grabs, it's a constant. I'm having a
hard time imagining that coins shrink unless they lose weight in the
process, or one of the dimensions is increased. Are the coins thicker
than
they were before being shrunk? Please bear in mind I'm not an
educated
person------I was lucky to escape high school by graduating.

There are mechanical presses that are capable of delivering tonnage that
makes that look like nothing, and they don't have the ability to compress
metals, at least as I understand it. I am impressed with the power of the
thumper, but I still have my doubts about shrinking metals. with the
exception of my comments, above. Otherwise, seems to me you could
duplicate
the specific gravity of gold that way. The way I understand it, you can
do
that only by creating gold, or an alloy of other elements that, combined,
equaling the specific gravity (19.3. Platinum and something, for example).
Am I missing something?

Harold

Hello Harold

One of pix explains what happens:

"The thickness proportionally increases as its diameter is reduced. A
shrunken coin's volume and mass remain the same, so its density remains
unchanged. There's no "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" magic involved in coin
shrinking."

As far as i know metals can be compressed for a short time using high
explosive lenses, the mass remains the same
but the density is increased for a few milliseconds.

Best Regards
Tom.

 

[Ignoramus17570]

This was certainly impressive and informative. I find high current and high
voltage effects fascinating. The test sets I design will generate up to
about 100,000 amperes AC for several tenths of a second, but the only
effects I have seen are jumping cables and vibrating metal objects in the
magnetic field. Thanks for the informative link.

I remember, you are in the circuit breaker testing business...

i

 

[Ignoramus17570]

Thanks for the link, although I'm somewhat a skeptic. I didn't read all
the information, so I may be bringing up a subject that was well addressed.
In my mind, the laws of physics dictate that metals will occupy a given
amount of space----a result of their atomic structure. In other words,
their specific weight isn't up for grabs, it's a constant. I'm having a
hard time imagining that coins shrink unless they lose weight in the
process, or one of the dimensions is increased. Are the coins thicker than
they were before being shrunk? Please bear in mind I'm not an educated
person------I was lucky to escape high school by graduating.

The coins become smaller in diameter, but thicker, the volume stays
same.

Electric current and magentic field acts like a press, changing form
but not volume.

There are mechanical presses that are capable of delivering tonnage that
makes that look like nothing, and they don't have the ability to compress
metals, at least as I understand it. I am impressed with the power of the
thumper, but I still have my doubts about shrinking metals. with the
exception of my comments, above. Otherwise, seems to me you could duplicate
the specific gravity of gold that way. The way I understand it, you can do
that only by creating gold, or an alloy of other elements that, combined,
equaling the specific gravity (19.3. Platinum and something, for example).
Am I missing something?

Yes, there is no magic like in Superman movies, there are very strong
forces that change the shape of the coin and that's all.

I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels

 

[Bert Hickman]

Ignoramus17570 wrote:

I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels

Igor,

You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.

Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
systems.

Bert
--
-------------------------------------------------------
We specialize in UNIQUE items! Coins shrunk by huge
magnetic fields, our "Captured Lightning" Lichtenberg
Figure sculptures, and Out-of-Print technical Books.
Visit Stoneridge Engineering: http://www.teslamania.com
-------------------------------------------------------

 

[Ignoramus17570]

Ignoramus17570 wrote:


Igor,

You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.

Bert, thank you for this advice and also for visiting and helping me
figure out howw this machine works. As well as for pointing out that
strain relief damage is inconsequential.

I am very grateful.

Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
systems.

Thanks. I will see what is the best and most sensible thing to do to
put something safe enough together.

i

 

[Don Bruder]

Ignoramus17570 wrote:


Igor,

You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.

Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
systems.

Bert

5Kfps??!?!? Holy crap! A typical factory issue round out of a .30-06
(Hardly anybody's idea of a "toy" gun) is only clocking about 3Kfps!
Even handloaders "pumping it up a bit" don't go too far beyond 3200fps.

I'm afraid to do the math to figure out the energy a typical 150 grain
..30-06 bullet would have at 5Kfps! Talk about "red mist"...

 

[Ignoramus17570]

Bert, I have a junk "electrical enclosure" that was used for an
outdoor starter, it is a box made of painted steel that is quite
heavy, maybe 3/32" thick or even 1/8". I will make pictures tonight, I
think that it will be a quick solution to the problem.

i

 

[Ignoramus17570]

5Kfps??!?!? Holy crap! A typical factory issue round out of a .30-06
(Hardly anybody's idea of a "toy" gun) is only clocking about 3Kfps!
Even handloaders "pumping it up a bit" don't go too far beyond 3200fps.

I'm afraid to do the math to figure out the energy a typical 150 grain
.30-06 bullet would have at 5Kfps! Talk about "red mist"...

Don, if I recall correctly, we share interest in guns. So let me throw
in some numbers.

The maximum voltage on the scale of this thumper is 25 kV DC. I have
not tried reaching this voltage, or anything close to it, yesterday,
but let's assume that it is a 25 kV machine.

Its capacitance is 13 uF (a little bit more, like 13.37) measured with
my Amprobe multimeter.

According to formula E = Cv^2/2, the energy in this machins is 4,062
joules.

Now consider a powerful rifle such as 30-06. Its bullet weighs 10
grams and flies out of the muzzle at 850 meters per second.

The energy of this bullet would be 0.010 * 850*850/2 = 3,612 joules.

So, the energy released by my thumper is greater than that in a 30-06
bullet.

i

 

[Gunner]

Ignoramus17570 wrote:


Igor,

You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.

Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
systems.

Bert

This btw..is the same documented feature of the M67 hand grenade of
current deployment. A coil of wire that is exploded to product
fragments and has an effective range of 15 meters

Gunner



"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

 

[martin griffith]

This is in regards to a thumper that followed me home last week. A
thumper is a machine that makes high voltage capacitor discharges of
thousands of joules, to find faults in underground buried cable. Mine
is designed to deliver up to 4,062 joules, or approximately the energy
carried by bullets from a burst of assault rifle fire.

See

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/High-Voltage/Hell-Machine-THUMPER/

maybe this......
http://static.flickr.com/109/280106906_bd9f5cc7cc_o.jpg


martin

 

[Ignoramus17570]

maybe this......
http://static.flickr.com/109/280106906_bd9f5cc7cc_o.jpg


martin

that was hilarious!

i

 

[Gunner]

maybe this......
http://static.flickr.com/109/280106906_bd9f5cc7cc_o.jpg


martin

Marvelous!

Gunner



"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

snip--

Hello Harold

One of pix explains what happens:

"The thickness proportionally increases as its diameter is reduced. A
shrunken coin's volume and mass remain the same, so its density remains
unchanged. There's no "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" magic involved in coin
shrinking."

Thanks, Tom. I read the link in haste-----and missed some of it----reading
only that in one instance, there was some thickening around the rim area.
I assume, after reading what you posted, that in that instance the coin
shrunk disproportionately, but they all get thicker. I should have spent
more time reading, but I'm spread thin. sigh!

As far as i know metals can be compressed for a short time using high
explosive lenses, the mass remains the same
but the density is increased for a few milliseconds.

That makes sense. The forces that keep the atom together are known to be
quite powerful. You can bump them, but not permanently deform them. Those
electrons demand their space.

Harold

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

snip---

I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels

Thanks, Iggy. I'd really enjoy having one of them, and wowing the folks I
know. This is all new to me, and sort of magic--gee wiz stuff. I'd never
heard of it before.

Harold

 

[Ignoramus17570]

snip---



Thanks, Iggy. I'd really enjoy having one of them, and wowing the folks I
know. This is all new to me, and sort of magic--gee wiz stuff. I'd never
heard of it before.

I will try to find an empty coke can, if so, I will try to crush one
tonight. That's relatively easy and requires less energy.

http://members.tripod.com/extreme_skier/cancrusher/

If I make a strongbox from some piece of junk electrical enclosure
lying next to my boat, I will try to shrink coins as well. I will keep
you in mind.

i