trend of "ARM"... will this replace all other micro-controller and ...

[Mylinux]

at the end of the day it will replace of 8051....whenever processor in
industrial controller area; these 80x what what are totally obsolete.


the "arm" will be installed with wireless 805.11g, USB storage, web-based
application to control relay , stepper motor, rocket...etc..


the home-based ( server side) will control the "arm" in remote area , remote
"mine sweeper" .... , robotic ....etc.


we need learn to "arm" and gcc in order to survive.

 

[Zonk]

Interesting thought. However, the one time I looked at ARM, they asked
us for a $1m license fee to use it in a custom IC. Goodbye ARM! Try
Renesas.com , they make the best low power high spec microcontrollers
(H8 and M16); ARM is probably better if you can afford it, but my line
of business would use under 50,000 units a year, so ARM is not cost
effective.

 

[Fred Abse]

at the end of the day it will replace of 8051....whenever processor in
industrial controller area; these 80x what what are totally obsolete.


the "arm" will be installed with wireless 805.11g, USB storage, web-based
application to control relay , stepper motor, rocket...etc..


the home-based ( server side) will control the "arm" in remote area ,
remote "mine sweeper" .... , robotic ....etc.


we need learn to "arm" and gcc in order to survive.

WTF does all that mean?

 

[Chris Hills]

at the end of the day it will replace of 8051....whenever processor in
industrial controller area; these 80x what what are totally obsolete.

No so.... but then I have seen some road maps

the "arm" will be installed with wireless 805.11g, USB storage, web-based
application to control relay , stepper motor, rocket...etc..

Yes arm all over the place.

we need learn to "arm" and gcc in order to survive.

Arm yes... Gcc not entirely true.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ [email protected] www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

[The Mind Factory INC]

Sorry I must disagree 100%, I am on a project now and the whole thing
plastic enclosure, circuit board, LCD, and all componenets must cost $3 or
less, and it needs a MCU, should I too use an ARM?

Richard.

 

[Jim Granville]

at the end of the day it will replace of 8051....whenever processor in
industrial controller area; these 80x what what are totally obsolete.

the "arm" will be installed with wireless 805.11g, USB storage, web-based
application to control relay , stepper motor, rocket...etc..

the home-based ( server side) will control the "arm" in remote area , remote
"mine sweeper" .... , robotic ....etc.

we need learn to "arm" and gcc in order to survive.

Not quite. The real impact of devices like the Philips LPC21xx will
be on the 16 bit space.

Key parameters are pin count, and price.

Smallest ARMs are 48 pins, and in the region of $5 - both
well above the average pincount/selling price of 8 bit devices.

The same process savings that move ARM down, also move
smaller devices down.
Right now, 80C51 are moving comfortably sub $1 in FLASH @ 8 pins,
and also adding high performance Analog. (but not for the $1

There is a trend for more capable cores to replace simpler cores
as process improves, but the 80C51 is not exposed much to ARM at
the top end, and is feeding on the simpler cores ( PIC et al)
at the sub $1 point. Thus 80C51 is growing.

Learn 80C51 _and_ ARM

-jg

 

[Mylinux]

Crap, like everything else you post.

u mean "arm" is a crap?

 

[Earl Bollinger]

Arm will go the way of the DoDo bird in the next couple of years.
Actually, with the new smaller die sizes for the regular Intel type
processors, from Intel and Via,
ARM will go the way of the DoDo bird. The world will eventually switch to
the Intel chips running Linux and Windows.
Via's Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX and the new robotics board from Intel show the
what is happening now.
Everyone wants WiFi, and Bluetooth, a much bigger crop of programmers can
swtich to these chips without too much trouble, plus the
programming tools are a lot cheaper too.
In a few years you'll need wireless internet capability for even a simple
smart power switch at home. The security to keep hackers from screwing it
all up
will be what drives it all.

 

[David L. Jones]

Arm will go the way of the DoDo bird in the next couple of years.
Actually, with the new smaller die sizes for the regular Intel type
processors, from Intel and Via,
ARM will go the way of the DoDo bird. The world will eventually switch to
the Intel chips running Linux and Windows.

Tell that to all the mobile phone and PDA manufactuers who are still
pouring squillions into their existing ARM platforms. Not surprising,
given that they shipped *hundres of millions* of ARM based processors
last year, and have something like 80% of the market or more.
You can get Linux for the ARM too...
ARM is an IP core that can be applied to all these new wizz-bang ultra
small die sizes to achieve lower power and faster speeds, that is why
it is so successful. It is also why virtually every major processor
maker is licensed up to use ARM cores. The only place it's going in
the next couple of years is up the growth curve.

Regards
Dave

 

[Dan Henry]

Interesting idea - any facts or data to back up it up?

My' sounds like he/she is in Marketing. Those folks don't
need-no-steeenkin' facts ;-)

On the other hand, this could be an edict from the "big guy" above,
dictating "thou shalt" use ARMs everywhere.

 

[[email protected]]

Sorry I must disagree 100%, I am on a project now and the whole thing
plastic enclosure, circuit board, LCD, and all componenets must cost $3 or
less, and it needs a MCU, should I too use an ARM?

Aha! An actual engineer amongst the opinionated students and other hoi
polloi! Sadly, actual experience counts for little as you are doubtless
too busy to write endless drivel here, whereas Those Who Know Without
Doing have all the time in the world. Strangely.

 

[Chris Hills]

I say gcc yes.. arm not entirely true.

Arm is getting very widely used in most areas of embedded work.

gcc is not up to the mark in many areas of embedded work when compared
with the top end commercial compilers.

Yes, I have used gcc and spend years working with Unix as well also much
smaller targets. I also know some compiler writers and GCC maintainers.
Gcc is not bad but it is not that good either.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ [email protected] www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

[Chris Hills]

Arm will go the way of the DoDo bird in the next couple of years.
Actually, with the new smaller die sizes for the regular Intel type
processors, from Intel and Via,
ARM will go the way of the DoDo bird. The world will eventually switch to
the Intel chips running Linux and Windows.
Via's Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX and the new robotics board from Intel show the
what is happening now.
Everyone wants WiFi, and Bluetooth, a much bigger crop of programmers can
swtich to these chips without too much trouble, plus the
programming tools are a lot cheaper too.
In a few years you'll need wireless internet capability for even a simple
smart power switch at home. The security to keep hackers from screwing it
all up
will be what drives it all.

Your in the wrong NG this one is for engineers. Marketing and story
telling have their own NG's


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ [email protected] www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

[Robert Kaiser]

Interesting thought. However, the one time I looked at ARM, they asked
us for a $1m license fee to use it in a custom IC. Goodbye ARM! Try
Renesas.com , they make the best low power high spec microcontrollers
(H8 and M16); ARM is probably better if you can afford it, but my line
of business would use under 50,000 units a year, so ARM is not cost
effective.

Have you looked at Hyperstone? It looks interesting and I understand that
their license fee is considerably lower. Nevertheless, the processor seems
to be widely unknown, even to experienced insiders in this business.

Rob

 

[Alex Gibson]

Arm is getting very widely used in most areas of embedded work.

gcc is not up to the mark in many areas of embedded work when compared
with the top end commercial compilers.

Yes, I have used gcc and spend years working with Unix as well also much
smaller targets. I also know some compiler writers and GCC maintainers.
Gcc is not bad but it is not that good either.

Depends if you can afford the commerical compilers.
Or if your boss / company is willing to buy commerical compilers.

Not all of us work for defense or other large companies.

Alex

 

[Dr. O]

at the end of the day it will replace of 8051....whenever processor in
industrial controller area; these 80x what what are totally obsolete.


the "arm" will be installed with wireless 805.11g, USB storage, web-based
application to control relay , stepper motor, rocket...etc..


the home-based ( server side) will control the "arm" in remote area , remote
"mine sweeper" .... , robotic ....etc.


we need learn to "arm" and gcc in order to survive.

Although ARM will be increasingly used in many electronic appliances, there
are plenty of applications where much lower-cost processors will suffice,
ussually much cheaper ones than 8051 et al.

 

[rickman]

Although ARM will be increasingly used in many electronic appliances, there
are plenty of applications where much lower-cost processors will suffice,
ussually much cheaper ones than 8051 et al.

On the other hand, the price of ARM chips will continue to drop as the
technology improves. The Philips ARM chip is around $5 in quantity
now. In three years expect it to break $2 with less memory if the
market continues to develop. Compare to the price of the Cygnal 8051
chips!

Of course you don't need an ARM to control your microwave. But many 8
bit apps will be done with 32 bit chips in the near future because they
can offer more features for the same system price.

--

Rick "rickman" Collins

[email protected]
Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
removed.

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX

 

[Grant Edwards]

On the other hand, the price of ARM chips will continue to drop as the
technology improves. The Philips ARM chip is around $5 in quantity
now. In three years expect it to break $2 with less memory if the
market continues to develop. Compare to the price of the Cygnal 8051
chips!

What makes you think that 4 and 8 bit processors aren't going to continue to
drop in price as well?

Of course you don't need an ARM to control your microwave. But many 8
bit apps will be done with 32 bit chips in the near future because they
can offer more features for the same system price.

I suppose if dice shrink (and wafer yields rise) to the point where the
packaging cost completely dominates the silicon/IP cost, then it won't
really matter whether there's a 4/8/16/32 bit processors. When you ask for
a price quote, all they have to ask you is "how many pins?"

 

[rickman]

What makes you think that 4 and 8 bit processors aren't going to continue to
drop in price as well?

Exactly as you say below, at some point the price of the package and
testing dominates. There will always be a price advantage with a
smaller chip, but if you can add features, even ones unrelated to the
product, there will be reason to spend an extra $0.10 cent for the
bigger chip. An example of that is the games that come on cell phones.
They have nothing to do with using a cell phone, but they make the
product sell better and so they are worth a few cents.

Maybe your microwave would work better if it sang to you as it cooked?

I suppose if dice shrink (and wafer yields rise) to the point where the
packaging cost completely dominates the silicon/IP cost, then it won't
really matter whether there's a 4/8/16/32 bit processors. When you ask for
a price quote, all they have to ask you is "how many pins?"

--

Rick "rickman" Collins

[email protected]
Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
removed.

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX

 

[Chris Hills]

Depends if you can afford the commerical compilers.
Or if your boss / company is willing to buy commerical compilers.

Not all of us work for defense or other large companies.

or professional companies...

Initial cost of a tool is not the same as the cost of ownership over
time.

You may be working in a company where time is not important, nor the
size, speed, efficiency and reliability of the code.

The size of the company has no bearing on the tools you need. I know
many one man outfits who use some very expensive tools because they are
the right tool that produces fast compact and above all reliable code.
As one said to me the other day he does not have time to play about
making up for unreliable tools. they need to work correctly without a
lot of messing about.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ [email protected] www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/