US telco claims 100 Mbps on copper

[Don McKenzie]

Oct 27, 2010 6:52 AM (1 hour ago)
US telco claims 100 Mbps on copper

Sweating copper, chasing fibre.

US telecommunications vendor Ikanos this week released NodeScale Vectoring which it claimed could deliver broadband
speeds of 100 Mbps over existing copper digital subscriber line (DSL) networks.

"Ikanos' NodeScale Vectoring technology will deliver the performance of fibre at one-tenth the cost of
fibre-to-the-home," said John Quigley, CEO and president at Ikanos.

The technology analysed interference between paired copper lines and created "compensation signals" that cancelled out
noise, Ikanos explained.

ZTE Corporation was demonstrating its first NodeScale equipped DSLAM this week at the Broadband World Forum in Paris,
France.

Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN) also trotted out its new "phantom" noise-cancelling DSL technology, which it claimed could
deliver speeds 850 Mbps over 400 metres and 750 Mbps over 500 metres of "bonded copper".

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/236611,us-telco-claims-100-mbps-on-copper.aspx

Cheers Don...


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[B J Foster]

Oct 27, 2010 6:52 AM (1 hour ago)
US telco claims 100 Mbps on copper

Sweating copper, chasing fibre.

US telecommunications vendor Ikanos this week released NodeScale
Vectoring which it claimed could deliver broadband speeds of 100 Mbps
over existing copper digital subscriber line (DSL) networks.

My goodness me, what on earth will they *use* it for?
What will the Labor idiots spend the money on instead?

 

[keithr]

My goodness me, what on earth will they *use* it for?
What will the Labor idiots spend the money on instead?

from

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/...You-Probably-Wont-Ever-See-111097?nocomment=1

While lab tests of faster DSL technology are well and good, most of this
technology will take years to leave the lab, *requires multiple pairs
the average home may not have*, and *like all DSL -- will remain highly
distance constrained* -- making it all-but-useless for the millions of
U.S. residents on long loop lenths.

Nice lab experiment but probably useless in practice.

500 metres? So, if you can't piss on the exchange from your house, then
you're out of luck.

There are all sorts of quirky schemes to wring the last drop out of
copper lines, but few, if any, will ever be put into practice.

Its like those competitions where they get a WiFi connection over 50Km,
technically interesting but useless in practice.

 

[son of a bitch]

My goodness me, what on earth will they *use* it for?
What will the Labor idiots spend the money on instead?

ADSL2+ can do 20mbs, how many actually get any where near that?

And there's a reason for that.

 

[B J Foster]

from

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/...You-Probably-Wont-Ever-See-111097?nocomment=1


While lab tests of faster DSL technology are well and good, most of this
technology will take years to leave the lab, *requires multiple pairs
the average home may not have*, and *like all DSL -- will remain highly
distance constrained* -- making it all-but-useless for the millions of
U.S. residents on long loop lenths.

Nice lab experiment but probably useless in practice.

What do you need 100Mbps for anyway, idiot?

 

[Rob]

ADSL2+ can do 20mbs, how many actually get any where near that?

And there's a reason for that.

I can't use all my available download speed now. there are heaps of slow
servers about.

 

[Rod Speed]

Eunometic wrote

Even if it takes 1 more year in the lab and 1 more year to get in
production/field test and 2 more years to deploy it will beat the NBN.

Nope, because that 100Mbps nees more than one copper pair and the
distance you get anything like 100Mbps over is nothing like whats needed.

VHDSL already runs at 100Mbit symetrical at 250m, and 50Mbit at 500m
and 25Mbit at 1000m. The new schemes double those distances.

No it doesnt on a single copper pair.

ADSL2+ has the DSLAM installed in the exchange, VHDSL is designed to
be also allow installation in the street box.(to get closer to the customer)

Yes, but we have chose not to go for FTTN.

The coalitions 5.5 billion policy for guranteeing 12Mbit involved
simply upgrading the old exhanges, installing a fibre backbone
and putting in VHDSL in the street some instances. (about
1.8 billion of the cost, the rest being satelite and Wireless)

And even you should have noticed that they arent the govt.

The new tech would now allow the coalitions policy to probably gurantee a
minium of 25Mbit symetrical (worst case) and up to 100Mbit for the same cost.

Nope, because it uses more than one pair.

Probably a few billion extra would close the gap to guranteeing nearly 100Mbit for everyone.

Nope, because there just arent enough copper pairs for that.

The new technology now means that folks 2km from the exchange can get
30Mbit not just those 1.0km and those at 4km can now get 12-15Mbit.

Nope, because there arent enough pairs.

For those greater than 2km from the exchange (very few in number)

Thats another lie.

the DSLAM can be installed at the streetbox.

And the street cables certainly dont have.

Do you think that fibre breakout boxes will be installed in the streetboxes or only at the exchange?

Doesnt fix the multiple pairs requirement.

I would say there is a shit heap of work to be done near or at the streetboxes
with fibre so there is no disasdvantage to VHDSL at the streetbox versus fibre.

More fool you, there arent the copper pairs.

Either way you've got to frig armount at the streetbox.

Thats FTTN, we have decided not to go that route.

 

[Rod Speed]

ADSL 2+ release "M" can do 30Mbit download and 3.6Mit upload up to 1km
(maybe more if the line is good). Around 15Mbit at 2km and 6 Mbit at
4km. Something called a loop extender can double that for remote
customers.

If more is needed VHDSL can provide 100Mbit at 250m and 50Mbit at 500m
and 25Mbit at 1000m (symetrical) rolling of as for ADSL 2+ after
that. VHDSL is designed for installation in the streetbox rather than
the exhange to get close to the customer.

Thats FTTN, we decided to not go that route and even the coalition isnt proposing that.

 

[son of a bitch]

ADSL 2+ release "M" can do 30Mbit download and 3.6Mit upload up to 1km
(maybe more if the line is good). Around 15Mbit at 2km and 6 Mbit at
4km. Something called a loop extender can double that for remote
customers.

If more is needed VHDSL can provide 100Mbit at 250m and 50Mbit at 500m
and 25Mbit at 1000m (symetrical) rolling of as for ADSL 2+ after
that. VHDSL is designed for installation in the streetbox rather than
the exhange to get close to the customer.

In OZ, People can be 2.5 to 5 KM away from the Exchange even in Cities.
If you're not a Major Capital, I would expect 5 Kays to be
stones throw. Which means, for more than 50% of the People you would
be NO better off than what is available now.

 

[Rod Speed]

Eunometic wrote

Incorrect on your part.

Nope, fact.

The Ikanos technology relies on one standard copper pair only.
Wrong.

It works by analysing cross talk and compensating.
Wrong.

VHDSL already does used only one pair,

Yes, that comment was on the second sentence, thats why it was after it.

and has been doing so for years ON A SINGLE COPPER PAIR.

Pity about the pathetic distances.

These new standards, VHDSL 2+ seems to be the jargon, seem
to offer the VHDSL speeds of 100Mbit over twice the distance.

No they dont.

And even if they did, the NBN would STILL leave them for dead anyway.

You've misread that.
Nope.

It uses one pair.
Nope.

The Siemens-Nokia technology, which offers up to 850Mbit over copper pairs,
can use multiple pairs if desired to get the fill speed but doesn't have to.

Mindlessly silly.

Rest of off tack Rod Speed Meanderings snipped.

More of your pathetic excuse for lying bullshit.

Fucking idiot.

Your sig is sposed to have a line with just -- in front of it, fuckwit.

 

[Ross Herbert]

SNIP
:
:Thats FTTN, we decided to not go that route and even the coalition isnt
proposing that.
:

And the reason they didn't go for FTTN was purely to satisfy Telstra's
competitors and no other reason.

Imagine this, Telstra still own the copper and all of the competitors are
allowed access to it at a cost determined by the ACCC. If FTTN were adopted
Telstra would say "right we don't need to maintain all that copper between the
exchange and the nodes now. If you others want to compete then install your own
fibre to your own nodes. We will only continue to maintain the copper between
the nodes and the customers". And those competitors would bitch like crazy at
the expense they would be up for and lobby like hell to overturn it and go for
something which did not rely upon copper for any part of the route. And that is
actually what happened when the first NBN proposed by Labor was based on FTTN.

Of course NBNCo could still have bought the copper and the underground
infrastructure for around $11B as they are now going to do anyway, and still
have implemented an NBN using FTTN. However, this would mean they still had
problem in that the only organisation which had the relevant workforce and
structures to maintain the copper end section was Telstra, and that was a big
NO-NO as far as the private competitors were concerned. They wanted a system
where Telstra had no role or ownership of any part of it. I can't say I really
blame them, but that is hardly a good reason to blow $43B when around $25B
(including the $11B for Telstra's infrastructure) would have done the job.

 

[B J Foster]

So you resort to name calling because someone points out
your so called solution is blatantly inferior to fibre
optic?.

Solution for *what*? Exactly.

PS: You too can earn a title. It's easy.

 

[B J Foster]

Thats FTTN, we have decided not to go that route.

We?

 

[Rod Speed]

B J Foster wrote

Rod Speed wrote

We?

The country, stupid.

 

[Rod Speed]

B J Foster wrote

Eunometic wrote

Another lie.

You dont get anything like 850Mb over copper pairs at any useful distance.

Excellent research.

Nope, just more flagrantly misleading hype.

It would be financially irresponsible for government to start spending tens of billions of dollars before a
cost-benefit analysis is done, including VDSL as an option. No listed company would ever do such a thing

Another bare faced lie. BOTH Optarse and Telstra did just that with their cable services.

- the CEO and the board would be fired.

Have fun explaining why neither the Optarse or the Telstra or the Foxtel CEO or board was.

 

[B J Foster]

B J Foster wrote


The country, stupid.

'The country' had a design meeting? When and where did this occur?

 

[Rod Speed]

B J Foster wrote

Rod Speed wrote

'The country' had a design meeting?

Nope, we did the usual, those providing the comms infrastructure decided not to go that route.

Clowns like you get to like that or lump it.

 

[B J Foster]

B J Foster wrote


Nope, we did the usual, those providing the comms infrastructure decided not to go that route.

Except in South Brisbane eh?

Clowns like you get to like that or lump it.

Clowns eh?

 

[Rod Speed]

B J Foster wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Except in South Brisbane eh?

There is **** all FTTN in BrizVegas.

Clowns eh?

Fuckwit clowns in fact.

 

[Rod Speed]

Eunometic wrote

Your a lying incompetant idiot.

VHDSL2+ is a long existing standard offering 250Mbits over 400m right now.

Not on the wire guages used in this country and that 400m is completely
fucking useless for our copper network, you silly little pig ignorant clown.

You cant list even a single example of anyone offering anything like that in this country, fuckwit.

Remaining lies snipped

All yours, yep.