### Network

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#### mkr5000

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can something like this --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-433Mhz...836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc7431824

be used in a product without FCC certification? (Sending to an FCC lab etc).

I know the xmtr is only 10mw.

If I remember don't garage door openers and the like operate at 433 mhz?

thank you.

well, yeah I know all that but who's going to do it? heck I just need 20 feet of distance -- so no ground plane in sight and even cut the antenna off freq a bit and presto?

oh well.

like I say, can I self certify an xmtr (probably not) -- looks like with receivers you can.

H

#### hamilton

Jan 1, 1970
0
for general public but don't anticipate high volume sales as all.

so -- final question --

Can I "self certify"? That is an excellent resource you linked me to -- THANKS

Yes and No.

You as a manufacture must contract with a testing house to verify the
device for FCC requirements.

So, if you understand all the FCC requirements and have a certified
shop/lab, then yes you can do it your self.

I am sure you can develop a testing system that looks like an FCC lab
did the testing.
You may even get the FCC reviewer to pass you.

but get caught !!!!! ( shakes head slowly )

People do it all the time.

Good Luck, let us know how it works for you.

hamilton

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#### Bill Martin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I should have read these posts more thoroughly -- from everything you all say, ain't no way -- ANYTHING that emits RF (any frequency) needs to get FCC certification if it's a consumer product. Seems crazy if your just looking for 50 feet of distance and it's simple data -- RF would interfere more with analog stuff anyway right? Does analog still exist? (kidding).

Honestly, all I want to do is eliminate a single pair of wire for a random on/off and THAT'S it (much like a garage door opener etc).

I suppose the only way out is too seek a pre--certified module from a manufacturer? But I need CHEAP.
Do you absolutely have to have rf? Maybe you could make your link some
other way, IR or ultrasonic if you have line of sight between endpoints,
and low data rates.

-bill

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#### mkr5000

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can something like this --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-433Mhz...836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc7431824

be used in a product without FCC certification? (Sending to an FCC lab etc).

I know the xmtr is only 10mw.

If I remember don't garage door openers and the like operate at 433 mhz?

thank you.

you know what? funny thing is, this part --

https://www.linxtechnologies.com/en/products/modules/lc-rf-transmitter

simply mounted in a plastic bud box with a battery and an antenna is all I need really. a switch that connects the battery to the module for on/off.

seems to me a certification lab would ok me for a case of beer.

and laugh at me for bringing it in.

O

#### Owen Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
There used to be modules out there, a bit more expensive, that have
controlled physical structure or attach by a cable, that are already
compliant.
I do not know who sells them these days.

Consider that the test gear is 20-30K$new and you'll see why its a expensive service. Steve B #### brent Jan 1, 1970 0 "Authorized by the FCC?" Where is that in the regs. Then you didn't do all the work that was required. You *STILL* need to comply with *all* of the relevant part-15 compliance issues. Intentional radiators still radiate unintentionally. Goalpost move noted. Aha - I realize now where you are misunderstanding. Different equipment gets authorized by different parts (or rule sets). Aircraft radios, for instance, are authorized by the rules set out in part 87. Part 15 is the rule set for things like garage door openers (stuff to be sold for unlicensed operation). So equipment authorized under part 87 does not need to comply with part 15. I hope I was able to clear that up for you. M #### mike Jan 1, 1970 0 Ok -- promise, just one more question. Any CHEAP certification labs? Like -- real cheap? You've been given a lot of good advice. Bottom line is...wishing don't make it so. The intent of the regulations is to make sure that stuff doesn't interfere with other stuff. And since it's one-size-fits-all, from any particular angle, it looks like overkill. You can buy a certified module. But that does not relieve you of the responsibility to VERIFY that the finished product is in compliance. Here's an example. Go to Best buy and buy a computer. Go to Staples and buy a monitor. Order some cables from ebay. Get the keyboard from Dell The mouse from HP. ALL these items will be certified. If you plug them together in your house, you're good to go...until someone complains that his TV has lines on it. The FCC truck shows up and traces the problem to your house. It's now your problem to fix it. Might be as simple as tightening the screws on your cables. OR removing that 200' usb cable you made out of phone wire and ran up to the weather station on the roof. Fines are steep, but you'd likely never incur any, unless you pissed off the inspector over a long period of time. If you made a weather station product from all that stuff and sold it, You'd need to certify the system as a unit. If I bought one and it caused my neighbor's TV a problem, YOU'd be responsible to fix it. If you had valid test data, you'd just have to recall defective units and fix 'em. If you didn't have test data, you'd be in deeper water. If you never had any intention of testing, you'd be screwed. As for test labs, google or the phone book should turn up some. Underwriters Labs used to do EMC testing along with the safety testing. If you have a friend in the business, you might be able to wrangle some test time to work out the kinks. But real paperwork is likely to cost you. If you can, get a tour of a lab while they're testing something. I haven't done it in 20 years, but at that time, they strapped it down to a rotating table, adjusted the cables to maximize radiation and spun it around for maximum radiation relative to the antennas. And it'll be tested in an actual use scenario. An mp3 player will have headphones with the wires arranged for maximum radiation. More than once, I had to modify a purchased assembly to make the system pass. And we haven't even touched on the safety standards. Product concept is the easy part. Product implementation is a little harder. Bringing that product to market is a bitch! You wanna get all that discovered BEFORE you invest anything. If you want some light reading, check into the Winegard fiasco. http://www.winegard.com/kbase/interference.php Most of the offenders are on mobile homes and RV's. So, they come and go with the seasons. The things have a birdie that intermittently drifts thru the 70cm ham band. Had one close to me. I could tell the temperature by the frequency of the birdie. At 36F, I had to shut down my repeater. I've been on the periphery of tracking those down. Winegard has stonewalled and the FCC let them get away with it. But they can afford lawyers. Are we having fun yet? B #### brent Jan 1, 1970 0 Can something like this -- http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-433Mhz-RF-transmitter-and-receiver-kit-f... be used in a product without FCC certification? (Sending to an FCC lab etc). I know the xmtr is only 10mw. If I remember don't garage door openers and the like operate at 433 mhz? thank you. BTW, I looked at my Genie transmitter module and got the FCC ID : B8Q 315390 and went here: http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/ I entered the info and got the Authorization certificate here: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repo...t=500&application_id=939317&fcc_id=B8Q315390T And you can see genie operates on 315MHz and 390 MHz. M #### mike Jan 1, 1970 0 I should have read these posts more thoroughly That's a common interweb experience. Ask a vague question and ignore everything until you get the answer you want. -- from everything you all say, ain't no way -- ANYTHING that emits RF (any frequency) needs to get FCC certification if it's a consumer product. Seems crazy if your just looking for 50 feet of distance and it's simple data -- RF would interfere more with analog stuff anyway right? Does analog still exist? (kidding). Honestly, all I want to do is eliminate a single pair of wire for a random on/off and THAT'S it (much like a garage door opener etc). I suppose the only way out is too seek a pre--certified module from a manufacturer? You keep saying "garage door opener". If that's what you want, there a zillion devices with handheld remotes with push buttons. You have to look hard today to find any consumer device that doesn't come with a remote. You should be able to find an OEM certified remote vendor and put a receiver in your gizmo. Still has to be certified, but you don't have to manage the intentional radiator (transmitter) issues. If that's NOT what you want, quit saying "much like a garage door opener." It just confuses people trying to help you. But I need CHEAP. CHEAP is a futile wish. Cheap is an adjective that conveys nothing but your state of mind. Replace it with the budgeted number. O #### Owen Roberts Jan 1, 1970 0 Long ago I worked at the local electronics parts place. I had sales desk duty one day. A lady called, the local two way radio guy tried to push his way into her house by force. Carrying a portable spec an. He had scared her so badly she was shaking. He had found a in-line TV booster/preamp oscillating in the attic. She told him to get off the property. He came back with a faxed FCC letter telling her she had just earned a 8,000$ fine. She still would not let him in, and she called the cops,
and US.

We wanted nothing to do with this, but she was scared to death. Her
call was a bit logical. First page in the phone book under "TV
Antenna" was AAA ******* Electronics. Husband out of town, etc. I
told her to co-operate, but she wanted NO one in her house.

Being a good Ham, I brokered a deal between the president of his
company, Her, and the FCC. The president of the company would stop
by, buy a preamp from us, go apologize, explain why, and install it at
her house. He'd call the FCC and ask to drop the fine. I told him his
guy crossed the line with the aggression and failure to explain. He
reluctantly agreed. She'd let them in and drop the trespassing/
forceful entry complaint. That worked.

Where the field guy got the macho balls to do all this, was the thing
was oscillating on the receive end of a FBI repeater.

I'm betting some strings were pulled or a fake fax was made. I'll
never know, I stayed behind my desk.

Normally the FCC has to witness the device in error. They then send
out a notice of apparent liability. If you don't respond with an
acceptable correction or recall, the letter demanding the fine
appears, with instructions how to wire the money to a bank in
Pittsburgh.

Still want to send out unapproved devices? google "FCC NAL" or "FCC
Notice of Apparent Liability"

Quite a few are on line, with the fines listed.

That is why you want to follow the rules on a commercial product. The
1 in 99,999 chance that something goes wrong.

Steve

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#### mkr5000

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can something like this --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-433Mhz...836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc7431824

be used in a product without FCC certification? (Sending to an FCC lab etc).

I know the xmtr is only 10mw.

If I remember don't garage door openers and the like operate at 433 mhz?

thank you.

exactly -- 1 in 99,999 chance.

my last thinking was just to get a \$10 wireless doorbell, that's already been certified, take it out of the plastic case and use it for my on/off.

at least if I get a call from the FCC I could say it WAS FCC approved. (the missing plastic case wouldn't influence it, if everything is stable).

c'mon FCC -- lighten up on these rules -- after all, look at the ton of hobbyist stuff they don't care about.

and by the way, I'm a general class ham too and have an FCC general radiotelephone.

funny -- you guys are right -- I was looking for the answer I wanted, I'm screwed, I know it.

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