Digital TV Antenna

[David L. Jones]

I've had a STB for a few months now and find it great, but because I'm
getting marginal signal levels on most channels I'm thinking of
upgrading my antenna. I get drop outs on ABC and SBS fairly often now.
Can't complain though I guess, I couldn't get them at all before! But
once you've had a taste you want more...
I can't seem to extract any more performance out of my current antenna
(A fairly ordinary old VHF and seperate UHF), so an upgrade is probably
the only option.
I don't like masthead amps, so want to avoid one of those if possible.

Any recommendations for brands, models etc?
Anyone found that the new "digital" models are more effective?
I don't want to spend hundreds, so I want something affordable.
I live in the Hills district Sydney, so I'm in the middle of suburbia.
BTW, anyone know the locations of all the transmitters?

Thanks
Dave

 

[Dingo]

I think one transmitter is at Gore hill /artarmon.

But I haven't lived in Syd for years now so I don't know if this still holds
true.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David L. Jones"

I've had a STB for a few months now and find it great, but because I'm
getting marginal signal levels on most channels I'm thinking of
upgrading my antenna. I get drop outs on ABC and SBS fairly often now.
Can't complain though I guess, I couldn't get them at all before!

** You really had no viewable signal on SBS ?? Then getting SBS
digital is pure luck.

ABC digital is on VHF 12 ( 225 MHz) - your old antenna is probably down
in gain up there.

The some old rule applies: have a good look at what your neighbours are
using and ask if they to get decent VHF and UHF analogue signals - and
copy them.




................ Phil

 

[Franc Zabkar]

I live in the Hills district Sydney, so I'm in the middle of suburbia.
BTW, anyone know the locations of all the transmitters?

Artarmon, Gore Hill, Kings Cross, North Head

http://www.dba.org.au/reception
http://www.dba.org.au/uploads/documents/Sydney_VHF.pdf
http://www.dba.org.au/uploads/documents/Sydney_UHF.pdf


- Franc Zabkar

 

[David L. Jones]

Artarmon, Gore Hill, Kings Cross, North Head

http://www.dba.org.au/reception
http://www.dba.org.au/uploads/documents/Sydney_VHF.pdf
http://www.dba.org.au/uploads/documents/Sydney_UHF.pdf


- Franc Zabkar

Cool.
Thanks Franc.

Dave

 

[WDino]

"Digital" TV antennae are just marketing hype. As long as they can accommodate
the TV channels and have enough gain for you it doesn't matter whether they are
classed as analogue or digital.

 

[Martin]

"Digital" TV antennae are just marketing hype. As long as they can
accommodate the TV channels and have enough gain for you it doesn't matter
whether they are classed as analogue or digital.

I was starting to wonder exactly what a 'digital antenna' was..... ;-)

More sales hype for those that know no better...

 

[David L. Jones]

"Digital" TV antennae are just marketing hype. As long as they can accommodate
the TV channels and have enough gain for you it doesn't matter whether they are
classed as analogue or digital.

Correct.
But digital TV channels are on different frequecies to analog ones. An
old analog antenna might not have the gain required at the particular
digital frequencies of interest, but a new "digital" antenna might. It
can mean the difference between getting a digital signal perfectly and
not getting it at all.
My old antenna is OK for analog CH2 but is flaky on digital CH2 (this
week at least, it varies). Conversly, I have virtually no signal on
analog SBS, but get decent digital SBS.

I suspect some "digital" antenna might but be rebaged analog ones, but
surely some of them must have been tweaked to give better gain on the
digital channels?
Anyone got one specifically tweaked for digital?

Dave

 

[Phil Allison]

"David L. Jones"

But digital TV channels are on different frequencies to analog ones.

** With the exception of ABC, they are on adjacent channels.

7 digital is on ch 6.

9 digital is on ch 8

10 digital is on ch 11

ABC digital is on ch 12

SBS digital is on ch 34 ( analogue on ch 28)

An
old analog antenna might not have the gain required at the particular
digital frequencies of interest, but a new "digital" antenna might.

** Ch 12 may be down in gain on many old VHF antennas.

My old antenna is OK for analog CH2 but is flaky on digital CH2 (this
week at least, it varies). Conversly, I have virtually no signal on
analog SBS, but get decent digital SBS.

** Quote: " I get drop outs on ABC and SBS fairly often now." You have a
marginal SBS digital signal - consistent with a very weak analogue one.
The digital signal level can be 25 dB lower than what is needed for
acceptable analog and still be perfect.

I suspect some "digital" antenna might but be rebaged analog ones, but
surely some of them must have been tweaked to give better gain on the
digital channels?
Anyone got one specifically tweaked for digital?

** A true "digital" antenna for metropolitan use would cover only down to
ch 6 ( ie 174 MHz) - so be about 0.8 m wide or 1/2 the width of typical
VHF antennas. It would need to have a good UHF section, however.

I have not found one like that on offer yet.

All rural services are on UHF.

The only distinction that some "digital" antennas have is the double
shielding of the down lead.




............... Phil

 

[David L. Jones]

"David L. Jones" ones.

** With the exception of ABC, they are on adjacent channels.

7 digital is on ch 6.

9 digital is on ch 8

10 digital is on ch 11

ABC digital is on ch 12

SBS digital is on ch 34 ( analogue on ch 28)


** Ch 12 may be down in gain on many old VHF antennas.

Yep, explains my Channel 2 problem.

** A true "digital" antenna for metropolitan use would cover only down to
ch 6 ( ie 174 MHz) - so be about 0.8 m wide or 1/2 the width of typical
VHF antennas. It would need to have a good UHF section, however.

I have not found one like that on offer yet.

Hills have some specifically designed for digital. Both VHF 6-12 only,
and combined VHF 6-12 / UHF.
http://www.hillsantenna.com.au/catalog/CombinedVHFUHFAntennalo.pdf
http://www.hillsantenna.com.au/catalog/VHFAntennalo.pdf

Dave

 

[Johnny]

I've had a STB for a few months now and find it great, but because I'm
getting marginal signal levels on most channels I'm thinking of
upgrading my antenna. I get drop outs on ABC and SBS fairly often now.
Can't complain though I guess, I couldn't get them at all before! But
once you've had a taste you want more...
I can't seem to extract any more performance out of my current antenna
(A fairly ordinary old VHF and seperate UHF), so an upgrade is probably
the only option.
I don't like masthead amps, so want to avoid one of those if possible.

Any recommendations for brands, models etc?
Anyone found that the new "digital" models are more effective?
I don't want to spend hundreds, so I want something affordable.
I live in the Hills district Sydney, so I'm in the middle of suburbia.
BTW, anyone know the locations of all the transmitters?

Thanks
Dave

In my uninformed opinion, it seems likely to me that you simply have a
weak signal. Perhaps all you need is an RF amplifier and keep your
old VHF antenna. Yeh, I know you said you don't want one, but it
might be a cheaper and simpler option. (Be sure you can take it back
if it dosen't work out)

regards,
Johnny.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David L. Jones

Yep, explains my Channel 2 problem.


Hills have some specifically designed for digital. Both VHF 6-12 only,
and combined VHF 6-12 / UHF.
http://www.hillsantenna.com.au/catalog/CombinedVHFUHFAntennalo.pdf
http://www.hillsantenna.com.au/catalog/VHFAntennalo.pdf

Dave

** Now, if just *one* of DSE, Jaycar, Altronics, Tandy or WES
stocked them ..................







............... Phil

 

[Allan]

Yep, explains my Channel 2 problem.


Hills have some specifically designed for digital. Both VHF 6-12 only,
and combined VHF 6-12 / UHF.
http://www.hillsantenna.com.au/catalog/CombinedVHFUHFAntennalo.pdf
http://www.hillsantenna.com.au/catalog/VHFAntennalo.pdf

Dave

With the exception of SBS, the best Digital, Tv antenna is the Hills high
band DY14 it covers Channels 6 to 12,
If you have good Signal levels, then try the smaller DY10.
You don't need low band VHF as Phil said ABC is on Ch 12 VHF.

 

[Cunning Linguist]

"David L. Jones"

** With the exception of ABC, they are on adjacent channels.

7 digital is on ch 6.

9 digital is on ch 8

10 digital is on ch 11

ABC digital is on ch 12

SBS digital is on ch 34 ( analogue on ch 28)





** Ch 12 may be down in gain on many old VHF antennas.




** Quote: " I get drop outs on ABC and SBS fairly often now." You have a
marginal SBS digital signal - consistent with a very weak analogue one.
The digital signal level can be 25 dB lower than what is needed for
acceptable analog and still be perfect.




** A true "digital" antenna for metropolitan use would cover only down to
ch 6 ( ie 174 MHz) - so be about 0.8 m wide or 1/2 the width of typical
VHF antennas. It would need to have a good UHF section, however.

I have not found one like that on offer yet.

All rural services are on UHF.

Sorry to disagree but here in Orange NSW we still get Prime (seven) and ABC
on VHF

 

[Allan]

have

Sorry to disagree but here in Orange NSW we still get Prime (seven) and ABC
on VHF

HI,
Yes they are talking about capital Cities,
Not regional.
If you are in a regional area, the channels are all over the place.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Allan"
"Phil Allison"

** Correction - all rural, digital TV services are on UHF.

HI,
Yes they are talking about capital Cities,
Not regional.
If you are in a regional area, the channels are all over the place.

** From speaking with one of the engineers at the ACA back when DTV began
in Sydney, the intention is that any VHF transmitters still operating in
rural areas will shut down in 2008, ie when analogue TV is shut down
Australia wide.

Metropolitan VHF analogue transmitters will also shut down then.

What actually happens and exactly when will depend on practicalities, I
expect.




................. Phil

 

[[email protected]]

** Correction - all rural, digital TV services are on UHF.




** From speaking with one of the engineers at the ACA back when DTV began
in Sydney, the intention is that any VHF transmitters still operating in
rural areas will shut down in 2008, ie when analogue TV is shut down

Australia wide.

Metropolitan VHF analogue transmitters will also shut down then.

What actually happens and exactly when will depend on practicalities, I
expect.




................ Phil

Sorry Phil, you must have talked to an ACA engineer who didn't know
what was going on.

The channels are managed by the ABA. There are lots of digital services
planned for VHF - see
http://www.aba.gov.au/tv/digitaltv/viewer/channels.htm.

Regional analog services don't need to close till at least 2011 and the
advice from the ABA is that channels 3, 4, 5 and 5A aren't being used
for digital tv because of FM services and other uses of 5A (ie LEOs)
and channels 0, 1 and 2 aren't being used because of impulse noise
problems.

Ray

 

[Allan]

Sorry Phil, you must have talked to an ACA engineer who didn't know
what was going on.

The channels are managed by the ABA. There are lots of digital services
planned for VHF - see
http://www.aba.gov.au/tv/digitaltv/viewer/channels.htm.

Regional analog services don't need to close till at least 2011 and the
advice from the ABA is that channels 3, 4, 5 and 5A aren't being used
for digital tv because of FM services and other uses of 5A (ie LEOs)
and channels 0, 1 and 2 aren't being used because of impulse noise
problems.

Ray

I thought it was 2008 the analogue system was supposed to be turned off..?
I wish they would leave it on...

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

Sorry Phil, you must have talked to an ACA engineer who didn't know
what was going on.

No, sorry to disappoint you Ray. Phil is actually referring to himself when
he is making reference to the ACA engineer. The fool thinks he knows
everything and often misquotes things to suit his agenda.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Alan Rutlidge = criminal bullshit artist

No, sorry to disappoint you Ray.

** Any communication from the Rutmanic is going to be much worse than
disappointing.

Phil is actually referring to himself when

he is making reference to the ACA engineer.

** The Rutlidge moron thinks he knows everything and often misquotes
things to suit his agenda.

The fool thinks he knows everything and often misquotes things to suit his
agenda.

............. Phil