OT Hydrogen economy, not?

[Ulysses]

Brilliant. What shall we call this substance? "Hydro-carbon" or
something like that?
LMAO

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

http://www.speff.com

 

[Ulysses]

I ran across the following article about the hydrogen economy, I've been
waiting for an viable algae system to produce hydrogen, but this leads me to
believe hydrogen is not the answer to our energy independence.
http://www.planetforlife.com/h2/h2swiss.html
Conclusion:
According to B&E, the hydrogen economy idea does not work for multiple
reasons. They point out that there is no practical source of hydrogen, no
good way to store hydrogen, and no good way to distribute hydrogen. Many of
the problems of hydrogen stem from the physical and chemical properties of
hydrogen. Technology cannot change these facts.

It is difficult to understand the enthusiasm for hydrogen in view of the
above, Hydrogen does not solve the energy problem and it is a bad
choice for carrying energy.
Mike

Politicians don't need pesky facts getting in the way or their re-elections
and if it wasn't for hypocrocy there wouldn't even be a Democrat party.

 

[Ulysses]

There are a few problems left to be worked out, such as how to dispose
of the 'carrier' carbon atoms properly. But these can be left for some
future person or persons to solve.

Leaving messes for future generations to clean up is how we got in the mess.

 

[Rich Grise]

How about "carbohydrate", as some prefer? That one's popular too.

Nah, the "ate" ending means some of the hydrogen is already bound up
with oxygen, so you wouldn't get as many calories per gram - you need
a digestive system for that. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[[email protected]]

No picking and choosing ... do it ALL

Been reading this tread with great interest and the one
thing I haven't seen mentioned is better utilization of
the energy we have now!

Example...... why not strong incentives to properly
orient housing divisions so that front of home facing
south to capture heat gain in winter... trombe wall
maybe? Plant deciduous trees out from to shade in
summer?

I see so many HUGE homes built without ANY regard to
working WITH mother earth but instead just making sure
the front face the street!! Doh!

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

There's a better way. Suppose we dispense with all that heavy metal and
concrete and instead put little nuclear reactors right where the energy is
needed. Say, right at the synthetic gasoline plant. Instead of making
steam, we heat a gas, say helium or carbon dioxide, or a liquid, say, a
molten salt or metal, and we pipe that heated stuff right into the process
that makes the synthetic gasoline.

Why not make REALLY TINY reactors, and just put them right in the cars?

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

But nuclear has one huge problem, the final storage. Throwing it all into
some underground cavity ain't so cool.

Just ask the Federal Government where they're storing all of the waste
from all of the reactors they're now running - nuke subs, nuke aircraft
carriers, nuke bomb factories, and so on?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Why not make REALLY TINY reactors, and just put them right in the cars?

Cheers!
Rich

It's already been thought of (and it looks like Tom and Bud are
invading Afghanistan with it):

http://www.tomswift.info/homepage/atomicar.html
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

AFAIK the French have a really promising method at La Hague. Probably a
good thing to study it some more.

But the neocons hate the French with extremem venom, because the French
didn't participate in the insanity of Bush's crusade.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

I have such a pump, a submersible with a bottom intake, rated to gobble up
solids. I'd just rather things be a little nicer next time I have to
replace it.

Just flush nothing but clear water for about a month, while you use the
facilities at the restaurant just up the block. ;-)

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

Methanol shows some promise for vehicle fuel, and can be made from waste
wood and other refuse. I think ethanol requires edible carbohydrates
(sugar), while methanol can be made from inedible cellulose. And methanol
is poisonous to humans, while ethanol has a long history of human
consumption. So it's a shame to waste foodstuffs such as corn to produce
another human consumable product, and then just burn it in an SUV that get
16 miles to a gallon, or two miles to the pint. Hell, I'd walk 2 miles for
a pint of high quality methanol!

I wonder what will happen when the Great Unwashed Masses find out that
ethanol == moonshine? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Tim Williams]

Here's the deal. Recycle the fuel to recover the ~97% of the uranium that
was NOT burned. Extract the very valuable noble and other stable metals
plus the economically valuable isotopes like Cs-137 and Kr-85 from what is
left and sell them to pay for the rest of the process. Concentrate what's
left and vitrify it in a ceramic matrix.

It's a nice idea, but sadly, fuel reprocessing is VERY energy intensive. By
reprocessing fuel, you only about triple -- nowhere near 32-fold -- the
energy you can get out of the stuff. And it's expensive. Might as well
just dump the shit and mine more new fuel, which we have plenty of (because
we aren't using much nuclear power) and it's still cheap.

Tim

 

[Vaughn Simon]

Been reading this tread with great interest and the one
thing I haven't seen mentioned is better utilization of
the energy we have now!

The need for energy conservation has been mentioned numerous times in this
thread. Thanks for playing...

Vaughn

 

[Tim Williams]

I wonder what will happen when the Great Unwashed Masses find out that
ethanol == moonshine? ;-)

Homer is at the school science fair.
"Alcohol-fueled car, huh?"
He imagines himself and his car at the pump: "one for you, one for me, one
for you..."
"Allllgggh..."

Tim

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

Fuel cells will hopefully become good enough, but it will still take
many years.

I doubt there will be enough platinum. It's already in serious use as
part of the Haber process, which is vital for growing food around the
world. If energy not only tears a huge gaping hole in food production
through conversion of croplands to the purpose, but then also removes
it from continued use in the Haber process for fertilizer production
(90% or so of it made that way, I seem to recall), ... wow.

Jon

 

[[email protected]]

There's no need for any more research. There is a huge need to get out there
and "Git 'er done".

Well said Neon John!

OT question.... do you see nuclear engineering field
exploding soon? Good area for a student to study?

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Methanol shows some promise for vehicle fuel, and can be made from waste
wood and other refuse.

AFAIK we all make our own. Just requires eating enough beans for dinner

[...]

But there's no method to collect the fuel? Or is there?
http://www.google.com/patents?id=iuEvAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4496356


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[[email protected]]

I would LOVE to do what you have done..... go off
grid.... but it would be a major investment in time
money and energy for me.

I rent...don't own any land or even a house... so would
have to buy some land somewhere suitable for small off
grid cabin (proper design of course).

The engineering and logistics of it would be quite an
undertaking.... not impossible.... but not something I
could do over night.

What would be nice is if there was equipment one could
buy or make that was portable and could be used in
apartment/rent situation..... grid tie systems, etc

 

[Jamie]

No, they're working for me, I'm an owner. Well a part owner, oh, ok I own
some shares thru a mutual fund.
I'm not sure if your asking me or questioning B&E. I will add I wrote
what's above the url, everything else is the conclusion from the webpage.
Are there any facts on the page you can dispute? I've sent one minor
correction and a suggested addition to the page author.
Mike

Yes, I can dispute one fact! conflict of interest!.



http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[Jamie]

Riiiiight. Hot fusion's just around the corner. Isn't that one of the three
great lies, along with "the check's in the mail" and "I promise I won't come
in your mouth".

I began hearing that lie long before I had any concept of what the other two
meant.

Now I am kinda fond of one certain kind of hot fusion. The kind that happens
in a few naoseconds and makes a big bright light and a thunderous boom. Every
time I try to hook a power line to that one, though, it seems like the cables
melt and the towers all fall down for miles around.

John

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There is room for all of God's creatures.... Right next to the mashed potatoes.

Well hell, don't forget the tighten the lugs next time!


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"