Some Solar problems ahead?

[Phil Allison]

"David is a trolling Fake "

Not true in AC system.

** The topic is domestic premises where load current is normally very close
to being in-phase - and that current exists in the conductors feeding each
premises.

The feed conductors are essentially resistors at 50Hz.

So voltage drop determines the direction of flow.

You fucking tenth with moron.

In an AC power system, real power flow is determined by the load angle
between the generator and the load.

** Contextless gobbledegook.

Voltage level differences determines reactive power flow.

** Even worse contextless gobbledegook.


The " David " ASD fucked troll generates only meaningless spew.

Must be some kind fuckwit, public service compewter geek with a really tiny
dick.

And no balls at all.

Like Goebells.




.... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"TonyS"


** John Tserkezis is a life long, total nut case.

Like the proverbial Zoo Gorilla, he annoys himself.

So, it is a totally superfluous to annoy him with facts or logic.

They are both forever beyond his comprehension.

FFS - wise up.




..... Phil

 

[John Tserkezis]

There we go, you just demolished my theory,
as well as the statements of Mr.Hart and the power companies.

You're welcome.

So the "tripping out" jargon and in fact most of the article
(http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822)

is not telling the truth:

You may recall at the start of this thread, I said "is a complete
knob, and has no idea on how the grid works".

I stand by that. It *could* also be correct that he actually DOES
know what he's talking about, but is telling fibs for either profit,
political or other reasons.

And in those cases, he's still a knob. Only politicians have right to
tell outright lies and make themselves look like knobs, because *that's
their job*.

*"Mr Hart, who owns EcoSouth Solar Electricity, said areas with a lot of
solar panels pushed the voltage up to the maximum allowable level,
triggering shutdowns in the individual systems and taking the load off
the grid.

That's false.

He said solar systems "drop out for a few minutes" when voltages get too
high, a phenomenon known as "tripping out".

False again.

"Then they try to come online again and it pushes the voltage up again
and it's very wearing," he said. "That's the problem with having too
much solar in an area where the local authority hasn't got enough wires
or copper in the street to hold the voltage down."*

No clue whatsoever.

The truth would be that with more solar rooftop PV we are not facing
instability but inefficiency (in top of the inefficiency caused by the
power plants running on lower load).

Not sure what you mean here, the only clear inefficiency is that solar
is less cost-effective than solar. Sure there's the minor CO2 issue,
but considering that's where the vast majority of our power comes from,
the tree-huggers had better come up with a cheaper better alternative
rather than say current solar and wind technologies are our saviours -
they are not.

*Mr Hart said the size of conductors and cables in the streets would
have to be upgraded "so it can handle lots of solar, versus times when
there's lots of load and no solar".*

It doesn't work like that. Solar does NOT put anything more into the
wires, than what they can already deal with anyway.
Any power that comes from solar, does not come from the grid, it's not
rocket science.

That's true then, more copper could fix the problem. Obviously no one
wants to pay for that.

It's not true, but yes even if it were, no one would want to pay for it.

Another way would be to monitor the PV installations locally in detail
and not approve new ones unless the lines have been upgraded.
See the last paragraph of the article:

And reduce business? I think not.

*"In Western Australia, Horizon Power has set "hosting capacity limits"
for renewable energy installations."*

I wonder if there could be some other reasons as well....

Agreed, if he IS right on this point (doubt it, but there you go)
there are OTHER reasons for it.

 

[Phil Allison]

"TonyS"


** John Tserkezis is a life long, total nut case.

Like the proverbial Zoo Gorilla, he annoys himself.

So, it is a totally superfluous to annoy him with facts or logic.

They are both forever beyond his comprehension.

FFS - wise up.




..... Phil

 

[John Tserkezis]

Wth noting that the two towns cited in the article - Exmouth and
Carnarvon - are both relatively small and distant from the main state grids.
AFAIAA both would be reliant on relatively small local generating
facilities, their grid may not be all that stiff.

It's been a while, but the names ring a bell.

Either limited local generation, or long distance cables causing
voltage lag will do it.
I'm thinking it's more likely to be long distance cables.

Wind is out there to supplement peak power use, and that works well,
if you ignore the constant whining and protesting to get the wind
generators taken out, citing noise and eye-soreness as reasons.

Quite sensibly, they are all ignored.
It's easy to leave the wind generators installed and ignore the
whining and protesting
It's hard to remove the wind generation, and ignore screams of blue
bloody murder when they get to their quiet homes, turn on the lights and
barely get a dim glow.

 

[David]

On 17/10/2011 12:07 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"David is a Professional Electrical Engineer with many years experience
in the power industry"

** The topic is domestic premises where load current is normally very close
to being in-phase - and that current exists in the conductors feeding each
premises.

I knew there was no point in explaining this to someone who has no
concept of the difference between phase angle and load angle.

This might be a bit complex for you Phil, but here is a reference for
Wind Generation. Solar is the same:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...zgK#v=onepage&q=power flow load angle&f=false

Refer to top of Page 104.

The feed conductors are essentially resistors at 50Hz.

There is a lot more to a power system than "feed conductors", what ever
you mean by that. I take it you are refering to the the consumer mains.

So voltage drop determines the direction of flow.

For reactive power, yes. Not for real power. That depends on the load
angle between the load and the generator

You fucking tenth with moron.
?????????


** Contextless gobbledegook.

I knew you wouldn't understand this. It requires some level of
mathematical understanding. AC power systems are a lot more complex than
Ohms law and toasters.

** Even worse contextless gobbledegook.

QED

.... David

 

[Phil Allison]

"David is a trolling Fake "

"David is a Professional Electrical Engineer with many years experience in
the power industry"

"David is a LYING trolling Fake "



** This anonymous " David " fuckwit has never been right, not even once.

He even got the very simple math relating copper resistance to temp rise
completely fouled up.

Cos he is a mentally defective pile of autistic scum.

Yet another revolting, ASD fucked inbreed.




..... Phil

 

[David]

A bit complex is it for you Phil? Couldn't understand the link I sent
you? Good thing toasters are purely resistive loads I guess.

Pity you never understood complex numbers and vectors. You might then
understand about AC power sytems.

David

 

[John Tserkezis]

** John Tserkezis is a life long, total nut case.
Like the proverbial Zoo Gorilla, he annoys himself.
So, it is a totally superfluous to annoy him with facts or logic.
They are both forever beyond his comprehension.
FFS - wise up.

Give up Phil. Rod Speed has that market cornered. And he's been
doing it from LONG before *that* condom broke.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David is a trolling Fake "

"David is a Professional Electrical Engineer with many years experience in
the power industry"

"David is a LYING trolling Fake "


** This anonymous " David " fuckwit has never been right, not even once.

He even got the very simple math relating copper resistance to temp rise
completely fouled up.

Cos he is a mentally defective pile of autistic scum.

Yet another revolting, ASD fucked inbreed.


..... Phil

 

[Dimmer]

I wish you blokes would not quote Phil's filth and abuse verbatim. Those of
us who killfiled him to avoid it still have to read it! Doesn't take long
to put in asterisks!

 

[Phil Allison]

"Dimmer"


** Hey - Dimwit.

Go straight to hell you stinking troll.


... Phil

 

[terryc]

I wish you blokes would not quote Phil's filth and abuse verbatim.

pot kettle black?
snip please.

 

[Sylvia Else]

It's been a while, but the names ring a bell.

Either limited local generation, or long distance cables causing voltage
lag will do it.
I'm thinking it's more likely to be long distance cables.

Wind is out there to supplement peak power use, and that works well, if
you ignore the constant whining and protesting to get the wind
generators taken out, citing noise and eye-soreness as reasons.

Quite sensibly, they are all ignored.
It's easy to leave the wind generators installed and ignore the whining
and protesting
It's hard to remove the wind generation, and ignore screams of blue
bloody murder when they get to their quiet homes, turn on the lights and
barely get a dim glow.

Or their complete disbelief when the wind generators are left in place,
and the people turn on their lights, but the wind isn't blowing.

Sylvia.