SONY 35" Dual PIP -Video Blackout Problem

[papo]

I have a problem with this Sony 35" Dual PIP/Trinitron TV and I need to
decide if I should put the expense to repair or a get a new TV.

Problem started within the first year 2002 where the video would just go
black. The sound is ok. At first, it was intermittent and you took your
chance then turning on the TV. But eventually, it went totally black.
Since it was under warranty, it was picked up and "repaired." Authorized
service invoice indicated a "Flyback Transformer" was replaced.

When it was returned, it happen again. But strangely, it was not repeatable.

In September 2004, we noticed it to begin happen again, and in December it
went totally black. This time, being more savvy with the web, I checked
the Sony web site and they had a FAQ showing the problem. The
recommendation of unplugging the TV for 30 seconds seemed to fix the
problem. The screen was back! Eventually, again, it went black.

We were in the process of moving into a new Home, so we wanted to get
settled before addressing the TV problem. We moved, put the TV in its new
place, turned it on and for the entire month January 2005, it was working
fine! But we never turned it off!!

Well, for the last week its has been going black now every 2-3 seconds. If
you turn off the TV, it may stay black. Unplug it, you get the screen back,
but with this 2-3 second blackout.

Here is the ODD thing. There are a channel that don't create this problem.
In other words, if I put on channel 19, our local non-profit TV station with
a "Bulletin Board" of town events, the 2-3 second blackout does not occur.
Change the channel - the 2-3 secs blackout starts again. It is now 100%
repeatable.

How Strange!

Anyway, I guess I would like to know if this is a known problem. Could it be
repaired or I just swallow the lost of this TV and get another one? One
thing for sure, I'm never buying Sony again.

Thanks in advance

 

[Shoreline Electronics]

Whets the model #?

When it goes black , can you get the on screen displays ( OSD)?



--
==========================
Jeff Stielau
Shoreline Electronics Repair
344 East Main Street
Clinton,CT 06413
860-399-1861
860-664-3535 (fax)
[email protected]
========================

 

[papo]

The SONY TV model is KV-35S65

You mean, the MENU stuff?

If so, I don't recall if it does when it goes totally black (stays black).

But with the current 2-3 second blackout cycle, it effectively turns it off,
so I have to keep pressing MENU again to get to the display. I have to be
very fast to do anything, which of course, not much.

However, with the Channel 19 "oddity" where it doesn't blackout while it is
showing the simple bulletin menu, I have full access to the menu. I really
hate throwing this odd thing into the loop because it sounds so strange.
Sort of like the video is confusing the TV somehow.

Thanks

--

 

[papo]

The Model # is KV-35S65.

Another question I would like to know is how to avoid this future problem.

This TV was my first "advance" TV. I have 2 other nearly 15-20 year old
TVs running in perfect condition.

This SONY, I guess as with other vendors with its advanced electronics,
seems to have
a low quality in parts.

So my question is, with the advancement in TV electronics, what is the
best quality vendor or TV so that issues like this don't occur. What do I
look for?
How long as they suppose to last these days?

Thanks

 

[Ray]

But with the current 2-3 second blackout cycle, it effectively turns it off,

so I have to keep pressing MENU again to get to the display. I have to be
very fast to do anything, which of course, not much.

However, with the Channel 19 "oddity" where it doesn't blackout while it is
showing the simple bulletin menu, I have full access to the menu.

Papo,
Although your description doesn't match exactly, my first impression is
the closed caption function is turned on and blanking the screen on most
channels. Go to channel 19 (so the picture stays on) and into the menu. Locate
the closed caption function and turn it off.

Ray

 

[Alan Harriman]

Papo,
Although your description doesn't match exactly, my first impression is
the closed caption function is turned on and blanking the screen on most
channels. Go to channel 19 (so the picture stays on) and into the menu. Locate
the closed caption function and turn it off.

That was my thought as well. Sounds like it's in text mode close
caption.

Alan Harriman

 

[TCS]

The Model # is KV-35S65.

Another question I would like to know is how to avoid this future problem.

This TV was my first "advance" TV. I have 2 other nearly 15-20 year old
TVs running in perfect condition.

This SONY, I guess as with other vendors with its advanced electronics,
seems to have
a low quality in parts.

So my question is, with the advancement in TV electronics, what is the
best quality vendor or TV so that issues like this don't occur. What do I
look for?
How long as they suppose to last these days?

Nobody can out-cheap sony. They'll put $10,000 into engineering out a buck
off a tv even if reduces the lifespan from decades to months, as long as it
makes it few days past the warrantee period.

There are lots of much better brands like toshiba. Even sanyo is likely to
be an improvement over the sony.

 

[papo]

I appreciate your input.

With the remote, I can turn off the CC.

With the Remote, the DISPLAY button will cycle the options:

- OFF
- Status: Channel # (upper right), Time (Lower Right)
- Closed Caption (CC)

CC is set at CC1

With the 2-3 blackout cycle, it will automatically go to STATUS mode. So
during the brief time it is on, I turn it off, the next blackout, it goes
back to STATUS mode.

When I saw this, the software engineer in me, sure made it look like some
software glitch. I even thought for a minute the remote was faulty throwing
some errant signals. So I disabled it by removing the batteries just to see.

But keep in mind the blackout issue has been on going and previously, it was
an all or nothing. Now, only within the last week, it is a 2-3 blackout
cycle. I really hated to throw in this new discovery with the channel 19
discovery which was by accident. So I don't know how it is all related.

We have the service people coming tomorrow to pick it up afternoon, so this
is a last minute research to see if we are just wasting our time.

The SONY WebSite Knowledge base has the blackout problem documented with
Turn Off, Unplug for 30 second solution before servicing is recommended. So
obviously I am not the first owner of this TV model with what seems to be a
"flaw" in the TV video control system, but then again, I am a TV repair guy


Thanks again for any guidance you may provide.

 

[papo]

Nobody can out-cheap sony. They'll put $10,000 into engineering out a buck
off a tv even if reduces the lifespan from decades to months, as long as it
makes it few days past the warrantee period.

Which seems exactly what happen to me here. :-(

There are lots of much better brands like toshiba. Even sanyo is likely to
be an improvement over the sony.

I hear ya.

I have a 22 year old Toshiba TV and still kicking. I was thinking
Panasonic. Always had good experiences with Panasonic products. But I
wonder if these days, even Toshiba, Panasonic QA is still the same.

Thanks for the suggestions: Toshiba and Sanyo.

 

[papo]

The SONY WebSite Knowledge base has the blackout problem documented with
Turn Off, Unplug for 30 second solution before servicing is recommended. So
obviously I am not the first owner of this TV model with what seems to be a
"flaw" in the TV video control system, but then again, I am a TV repair

guy

Oops: ".... I am *not* a TV repair guy."

 

[TCS]

....

Thanks for the suggestions: Toshiba and Sanyo.

Actually, I wouldn't suggest Sanyo; I was just pointing out that sony
ranks down near the bottom for reliability.

I'd look at brands like toshiba, panasonic, sylvania, sharp, perhaps jvc. I'd
avoid sony as well as all the fly-by-night made-in-china brands showcased at
walmart such as apex.

 

[papo]

Actually, I wouldn't suggest Sanyo; I was just pointing out that sony
ranks down near the bottom for reliability.

I'd look at brands like toshiba, panasonic, sylvania, sharp, perhaps jvc. I'd
avoid sony as well as all the fly-by-night made-in-china brands showcased at
walmart such as apex.

Ok, sorry I missed that.

Another related issue to advanced electronic components...

We have a lot of brownouts around here. I never considered it before, but I
see now our power company (FPL, Florida Power and Light) now recommends a
small UPS for a TV.

Make sense. Makes me think whether this was the cause of the problem with
my Sony or maybe the flaw in the TV was susceptible to frequent brownouts.

Good idea?

-- Papo

 

[Alan Harriman]

There are lots of much better brands like toshiba. Even sanyo is likely to

I hear ya.

I have a 22 year old Toshiba TV and still kicking. I was thinking
Panasonic. Always had good experiences with Panasonic products. But I
wonder if these days, even Toshiba, Panasonic QA is still the same.

Thanks for the suggestions: Toshiba and Sanyo.

I disagree about Sony. They are a quality set with an excellent picture when
working properly. However, I would rate their reliability as average, perhaps
even a little below average overall. The brands I recommend are Sony, Toshiba,
Panasonic, Hitachi and Mitsubishi.

Alan Harriman

 

[papo]

I disagree about Sony. They are a quality set with an excellent picture when
working properly. However, I would rate their reliability as average, perhaps
even a little below average overall. The brands I recommend are Sony, Toshiba,
Panasonic, Hitachi and Mitsubishi.

Alan Harriman

Ok, Thanks Alan. Of course, I recognized, it is all subjective and
relative.

But what does that mean? Working Properly vs. Reliability?

You are saying its a great TV but don't expect it to last long?

Sound like a product/component life QA cycle problem.

Oh, I was sold when I brought it. We were happier than pigs in mud. The
extra for the 2 tuner PIP was more than I expected but it was worth it.

But I don't expect the parts to go bad after 1 year, to be repaired under
warranty and then a little after the warranty expires, it goes bad again?

4 years life span for a $1599 TV?

Is this what is to be expected these days by consumers?

Or maybe it is just something special with the Sony technology with the
"video switching" that is faulty?

A friend just ditch out $4500 for a HDTV. It has all kind of stuff. He's
licking his chops. I am wondering when it is going to break on him.

What I am wondering now if I have to go out and by a new TV what would be
cross point of Cost vs. Features vs. Needs because with the new frontier,
convergences of TV/computers, etc, with all the new advanced components, we
really don't have enough engineering time to see how long these things last.

For $4500, I want something to last me atleast 10 years or more after
warranty. Is this unrealistic these days? 5 years after Warranty? Or is 4
years the maximum expectancy these days?

-- Papo

 

[Dave Miller]

I think that the problem could be the picture tube is failing. See the
topic " Sony KV-32XBR48 picture blinks on and off" for replies to the
question I posted in this group. One thing I noticed in the early days when
the problem was not too bad was that if I tuned into the dish-network menu
page, the problem would go away. My guess is that is similar to what you
are seeing, and it occurs because the video is static and doesn't have much
of the color that is failing on your tube. I am a little ticked off that my
tube appears to be bad after only a little over 7 years of service. I would
be irate if it happened after only 3 years. I am putting the oscilloscope
on my TV right now, but all the other symptoms match exactly what the
replies to my question said, and in fact, the problem does go away if you
turn up the G2 voltage a little as they suggest.

Maybe your tube has a longer warranty than the rest of the TV and you can
make them fix it.

Read the replies to my question posted in this same news group, and good
luck.

Best regards

Dave Miller

 

[papo]

Great! Nice to see someone who experienced the same thing.

Wonderful, I just read the "Sony KV-32XDR48" thread. I am not a electronics
guy but it sounds that its time to get a new TV. Wonderful, just
wonderful! :-<

Will definitely talk to Sony about this. This TV was purchased in 1999

Thanks a million David!

-- Papo

 

[Dave Miller]

If you do the search they suggest in one of the replies for something like
IKB and Sony and video blanking or something like that, you will find pages
and pages of the same flashing video problem we have. I put the scope on
mine, and it looks like the red gun is failing. It is being driven the
hardest, and produces the least current. This makes sense because the
dishnetwork menu page has basically no red in it, so it would work better
with that picture.

I don't know how far you will get with Sony, but this is a VERY well known
problem to the professional service guys that deal with Sony. A service rep
can see it by triggering on the vertical drive signal, and then watching the
IKB signal and the video drive signals that happen during the blanking time.
If they don't admit that this is a systemic Sony problem, they are B.S. ing
you. It's possible that something else is the problem with your set, but I
am betting on this.

Good luck. I would be curious to know if you get any results.

Dave Miller

 

[papo]

Well, I have been exchanging email with Sony over the issue in early
December when it finally was going totally black. But I was in the process
of moving and didn't have the time to follow up. I wanted them to pay for
the service and I had given them some links showing this was a known issue
even from their own web site support pages. So I didn't think I should be
paying for what is a known flaw less than 1 year out of warranty.

After the move, for the entire month of January, it was working again. Did
something get juggled? Moved around in the set? Don't know. It was
carefully packed up and moved.

Starting in February, last week, we now were getting the 2-3 second
blackout. It started out maybe every 5 minutes or so, then the frequency
increased until now it is a 2-3 second interval.

My wife scheduled a service pickup and I started to do research to get to
this point, thinking this too much of an obvious flaw with no guarantee it
would be fixed. When it was first went bad in 2001, I wasn't totally
convince it was fixed even though the repair people replaced the flyback
transformer.

Now I have more proof that this was a known flaw. There is no way Sony can
say they did not know about this. I hope to recoup the cost in small claims
court and I'm sure Sony doesn't want to see a class action lawsuit if there
lots of people out there with this problem, which already see a lot of
people do. I will file a complaint with the FTC and BBB and setup a web
domain, blog, etc.

Did you notice that most of the reports on this problem all fall relative
around the same time frame in 2004, which is about when I started to see
this again. So it sounds there were certain parts made from the same plant
that have a QA problem and they are going faulty now. I am not a
electronics expert, but I am an engineering manager with 30 years behind me
and I know about product manufacturing and QA.

Hey, it happens. Sony just has to face up to it or risk possible PR issues.

Anyway, I'll try to keep everyone inform of what happens.

Thanks

-- Papo

 

[TCS]

I disagree about Sony. They are a quality set with an excellent picture when
working properly. However, I would rate their reliability as average, perhaps
even a little below average overall. The brands I recommend are Sony, Toshiba,
Panasonic, Hitachi and Mitsubishi.

Sony has an excellent picture and superb engineering. Unfortunately, the
engineering's goal is to manufacture as cheap as possible and to hell with
reliability as long as it is likely to outlast the warranty period.

 

[papo]

Hello Dave,

I have some interesting development.

First, SONY denies this is a known problem.

Second, we decided to have the authorized Sony service shop pick it up to
check it out. I wanted to see what they will say about it. As expected, the
said they picture tube needed to be replace at (total) cost of $1100+
dollars.

Talking to the repair shop via EMAIL, I told them this was not worth it and
indicated the information found on the internet, specially about the "G2
voltage."

Well, they got back to me saying this will fix it but the brightness will be
lower and they will not support a warranty on this. They wanted us to sign
a disclaimer and to release the repair shop and SONY from any legal
liability.

How interesting!? Why would the repair shop want us to release SONY? This
can only suggest they have talked to Sony about this and that the "cat is
finally out of the bag."

Well, we decided to take them the repair shop and Sony to court on the
matter and we will seek a class action status. They both knew of this
problem in the first year it was repaired saying it was the "FlyBack" It
was under warranty then so I wasn't too concern, but I was surprise it went
bad in the first year and that upon return from the repair ship, it did go
black again however, 1 TIME only and occasionally throughout the next few
years until finally late last year when it was got worst where it now just
blackouts every few seconds.

So they never really fixed the original known problem with the circuitry.
The information on the web is well established. There is no dispute that
this was a known problem, including the fact that Sony's own Web Site has a
FAQ on the issue. Yet, they deny this a known problem. The fact the repair
shop has admitted the problem can be fixed by increasing the G2 voltage
indicates and proves there was an original circuitry problem to begin with
that was known to eventually deteroriate the picture tube with a very short
life span. 5 Years for a $1500+ TV? Unacceptable!

What do you think?