telephone not ringing on my line...

[iHUG News]

Hello,
I have a new Siemens cordless phone. I have a dial tone and can ring out,
but it will not ring on incoming calls. My telstra phone rings, my Panasonic
cordless rings...
I took the phone into a friends house and the phones rings on his line.
I live in a rural area just outside of Brisbane, does anyone have a clue why
it should work in one location and not the other.

thanks,
Wayne

 

[David Sauer]

Dont know a whole lot about this but I do know that each phone line into a
property can accomodate a certain "ring value", from memory I think it is 4.

REN = 3 max.

A normal phone is 1.

Say for instance you have 2 phones and each has a ring number of 2, that
would add up to 4, the maximum, and you would have problems with any
additional phone.

Having said that I think a lot of phones these days have only a 1 or 1/2
ring number so you would have to have a few phones around before you start
having problems, but I am sure you will get a response from someone who
knows a bit more about this.

Cordless ringers aren't powered from the exchange, they're done by the
plugpack and have a low REN value.

Try unlpugging the other phones and just try the cordless on the line
and see if that rings. You should be able to work out if one of the
other phones is loading down the line too much or if it is a poor
line.

 

[Ross Herbert]

Hello,
I have a new Siemens cordless phone. I have a dial tone and can ring out,
but it will not ring on incoming calls. My telstra phone rings, my Panasonic
cordless rings...
I took the phone into a friends house and the phones rings on his line.
I live in a rural area just outside of Brisbane, does anyone have a clue why
it should work in one location and not the other.

thanks,
Wayne

Wayne,

Since you are in a rural area you could possibly be connected to a
Remote Integrated Multiplexer or some other type of remote line
concentrator. I haven't worked on these relatively new devices but the
ring generators would be quite low powered pcb types if I'm not
mistaken. If you happen to be a long way from the RIM (or whatever) you
may not receive sufficient ringing power to operate the ring detector in
the cordless base station. I can't really see why this should be so
because these days the ring detectors are IC based and don't need much
power. Check the REN number marked on the base station. REN should not
be greater than 1 and if this is the case then either the phone is
faulty or the exchange is not putting out sufficient ring power to your
lines for some reason. The fact that your Telstra phone rings ok on
either line (and they would also have REN=1) seems to point to the
Siemens cordless being the problem.

The fact that it rings when connected to another exchange could be due
to the ringer in that exchange being a higher powered device and/or the
line is shorter. See if you can borrow a different cordless from a
friend or relative and see how that goes in your place.

Ross Herbert

 

[Ken Taylor]

thanks for all your replies,
but I have tried this phone by itself on each of the lines into the house
with no other device connected, with no luck.
However, without changing a thing (just unplugging and transporting), I can
make it ring in my friends home....

thanks,
Wayne

Okay, just in case the obvious hasn't been asked or tried - are you using
the 610 connector into the line? Is it possible that your home's socket
doesn't have a 2-3 link and your phone plug breaks out ring to pin 3 and
line to pin 2?? An oldie but who knows?

Ken

 

[Rod Speed]

thanks for all your replies,
but I have tried this phone by itself on each of the lines into
the house with no other device connected, with no luck.
However, without changing a thing (just unplugging and
transporting), I can make it ring in my friends home....

Likely a combination of a low ring voltage on your lines
due to what the lines are attached to in the Telstra
system, and some of that being lost by a relatively
long run of thinner guage copper pair used for your lines.

Is your friend's place relatively close street wise or well away ?
That line may be off a different system or the exchange itself etc.

Since its a new phone, I'd get a refund and buy another
cordless phone. Technically the Siemens isnt fit for
purpose when other phones ring fine on your lines.

 

[Rod Speed]

Still, doesn't explain why a phone with REN=1 works fine
or even two of them together, but plugging in a single
cordless that loads the line to something like 1/5th ->
1/20th of the above situation causes it to stop working.

Fraid so. The REN is an ancient ringer equivalent, from
the days when phones had electro mechanical ringers.

Thats a measure of how much the phone LOADS
the line electrically, not a measure of the ring
voltage that will cause a particular phone to ring.

The SALT test machine on 12722199 can be requested
to send a half voltage ring to the phone, for that test.

Might be some other problem with the line such as polarity

Doesnt explain why the other phones ring fine.
The polarity isnt a problem with the substantial ring voltage.

or the phone is on a different exchange as suggested and
the ring is different and not detected properly by the phone.

Its basically a substantial AC voltage, so the effect is what I said.

I take it that it doesn't ring on any outlet in the house?

Thats what he said elsewhere.

 

[Rod Speed]

Still, doesn't explain why a phone with REN=1 works fine
or even two of them together, but plugging in a single
cordless that loads the line to something like 1/5th ->
1/20th of the above situation causes it to stop working.

Fraid so. The REN is an ancient ringer equivalent, from
the days when phones had electro mechanical ringers.

Thats a measure of how much the phone LOADS
the line electrically, not a measure of the ring
voltage that will cause a particular phone to ring.

The SALT test machine on 12722199 can be requested
to send a half voltage ring to the phone, for that test.

Might be some other problem with the line such as polarity

Doesnt explain why the other phones ring fine.
The polarity isnt a problem with the substantial ring voltage.

or the phone is on a different exchange as suggested and
the ring is different and not detected properly by the phone.

Its basically a substantial AC voltage, so the effect is what I said.

And both of these mean the phone isnt fit for purpose
anyway when other phones ring fine on that line.

I take it that it doesn't ring on any outlet in the house?

Thats what he said elsewhere.

 

[Paul Desmond Tybislawski]

Wayne,

Since you are in a rural area you could possibly be connected to a
Remote Integrated Multiplexer or some other type of remote line
concentrator.

some of those have 17hz ring current supply while everything else has
22-25hz. dont go telling me its only a minor difference. the answer
lies in the time between peaks or zero crossing. some phones detect
this timing so that they dont "sound off" if you have a parallel
connection with a pulse dialler (10 hertz), and inadvertantly fail to
respond unless the ring current ac period is greater that 20hz. i
think they also have a safety feature that they are silenced if the
ring is 50hz as this could come from downed high voltage lines.
wouldn't want anyone grabbing a continuously ringing phone that might
go to 11000 volts at any time.

I haven't worked on these relatively new devices but the
ring generators would be quite low powered pcb types if I'm not
mistaken. If you happen to be a long way from the RIM (or whatever) you
may not receive sufficient ringing power to operate the ring detector in
the cordless base station. I can't really see why this should be so
because these days the ring detectors are IC based and don't need much
power. Check the REN number marked on the base station. REN should not
be greater than 1 and if this is the case then either the phone is
faulty or the exchange is not putting out sufficient ring power to your
lines for some reason. The fact that your Telstra phone rings ok on
either line (and they would also have REN=1) seems to point to the
Siemens cordless being the problem.

The fact that it rings when connected to another exchange could be due
to the ringer in that exchange being a higher powered device and/or the
line is shorter. See if you can borrow a different cordless from a
friend or relative and see how that goes in your place.

Ross Herbert

Paul Desmond Tybislawski, there | I believe in : Paying NO voluntary taxes, i.e.
are no e's in my true email | Lotteries, Gambling... The Executive Producer
Visit the Ellen Foley Fan Pages | is to blame!... and perhaps, Love (is/can be)
http://www.go.to/ellen-foley | "Fully expecting to be Hurt!"

 

[Rod Speed]

Further tests.
The friends home is in another suburb within Brisbane, I am situated
in a rural area just outside of Brisbane. The local exchange (for me )
is about 10kms away. The exchange for my friends home is different.

I borrowed an earlier model Siemens cordless from him that he
owns and it to does not ring on my line, and yet it rings on his line.
It seems to all point to a characteristic of our phone line out here.

Yeah, almost certainly its some dinosaury old technology
that delivers a rather inadequate ring voltage combined
with a longer run that usual of thinner guage copper.

Thats not at all uncommon in some parts of BrizVegas for some
reason, particularly the longer run of thinner guage copper.

Is there anyway of increasing the ring signal?

Nope.

Best return it for a full refund which they are legally obliged
to provide, and get a different brand that works on that line.

Threaten them with the small claims system if they refuse
to give you a full refund. Technically the phone fails the
fitness for purpose test under the sale of goods legislation.

The BrizVegas small claims system is allegedly pretty gung
ho so you wont have any trouble getting a full refund. Just
have to waste some time using it if you cant monster them into
a full refund by rubbing their nose in the small claims system.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Hello,
I have a new Siemens cordless phone. I have a dial tone and can ring out,
but it will not ring on incoming calls. My telstra phone rings, my Panasonic
cordless rings...
I took the phone into a friends house and the phones rings on his line.
I live in a rural area just outside of Brisbane, does anyone have a clue why
it should work in one location and not the other.

thanks,
Wayne

Can you measure the AC ringing voltage across the tip and ring inputs?
Can you identify the IC in the base unit that is involved in ring
detection? Perhaps a datasheet will help you understand the problem.

Some phones (and modems) may use anti-tinkle zeners. Perhaps the ring
voltage is not of sufficient amplitude to cause these zeners to
conduct (?).

Can you get your modem to detect a ring?


- Franc Zabkar

 

[Ross Herbert]

well the fact is, its not the phone with the problem, the line has a
problem, and telstra will just have to install a higher current current card
in the exchange for this line because the line is unsatisfactory

I believe the OP has already said that his standard phone rings ok.

When Telstra asks "does the standard phone we provided you with ring
correctly?", and you reply "yes", try convincing Telstra that the
problem is in their equipment.

Ross Herbert

 

[Rod Speed]

well the fact is, its not the phone with the problem,

Corse it is when that phone doesnt work
on a line where other phones work fine.

Its clearly a dud design.

the line has a problem,

It clearly hasnt when the other phones ring fine on that line.

and telstra will just have to install a higher current current card
in the exchange for this line because the line is unsatisfactory

Wrong. The phone is clearly badly designed
when other phones ring fine on that line.